Fulmer Debate II

#101
#101
JMSqb11 said:
While this is true, we have hired 3 coaches who have no real experience or history of our rivals. I AM NOT BASHING BUTCH AT ALL. Just saying that it took 2 coaches who knew nothing about our rivals and history and simply, they didn't care. Fulmer knew and breathed and bled the way of the SEC.

Who would you trust to turn it around? 2 guys who were clueless about history and how the other team operates or someone who grew up in it? I take my chances with the knowledgeable one.

The on thing I will give BJ big time is that he has shown initiative to learn the history and embrace traditions. I just had we had to strike out with two goons and 4 years of crap that sabotages Butch. We won't be relevant for 4 years minimum. Essentially, firing Fulmer will have resulted in us gasping for air and dragging along the bottom dwellers of the SEC for 8-9 years.

Once again, I know Butch will get this job done. I just feel that I would have trusted Fulmer to turn it around in 4 years rather than waiting 8-9 years to become relevant for winning games, not giving them away. In other words, 09 UF/Bama, 10 LSU/UNC 12 UF 13 UF
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who cares about their knowledge of tradition when we're losing ball games in embarrassing fashion and the holes are becoming bigger in our roster?
 
#102
#102
utvolpj said:
who cares about their knowledge of tradition when we're losing ball games in embarrassing fashion and the holes are becoming bigger in our roster?
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College football is all about tradition. And sometimes, (post Fulmer) that may be all you have.
 
#105
#105
MedicT said:
True, however Coach Fulmer was good at both. Upholding tradition and winning football.
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29-21 in his last 4 seasons. His most successful season in that 4yr stretch included blowout losses of 59-20 to UF and 41-17 to bama (a 6-6 bama team that lost to UL-Monroe at home)

trying to figure out whether to file that under upholding tradition or winning football
 
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#106
#106
utvolpj said:
29-21 in his last 4 seasons. His most successful season in that 4yr stretch included blowout losses of 59-20 to UF and 41-17 to bama (a 6-6 bama team that lost to UL-Monroe at home)

trying to figure out whether to file that under upholding tradition or winning football
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That's actually righting the ship according to his oblivious fans.
 
#108
#108
utvolpj said:
29-21 in his last 4 seasons. His most successful season in that 4yr stretch included blowout losses of 59-20 to UF and 41-17 to bama (a 6-6 bama team that lost to UL-Monroe at home)
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That will continue to be ignored.
 
#109
#109
This Is What We Have Become....

Bitter Fans Talking About The Good Old Days And Blaming Old Coaches For Ruining Things..

UT Will Not Win Running That Horrible Offense. That Is Our Present.

It Doesn't Matter How We Got Here, We're Here.
 
#110
#110
utvolpj said:
29-21 in his last 4 seasons. His most successful season in that 4yr stretch included blowout losses of 59-20 to UF and 41-17 to bama (a 6-6 bama team that lost to UL-Monroe at home)

trying to figure out whether to file that under upholding tradition or winning football
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Did you not read my last paragraph. We essentially went one route that will require 8 years of losing football and a 4-5 year rebuild. My point is that I believe Fulmer, who knew SEC football and the other teams, could have cut that time in half. Now we have had Kiff and Dools who were morons. Those essentially sabotaged Butch and his offensive system. Everyone says lookout in 2015. I am hoping everyone isn't turning on Butch in 2015. In 2015, we go on the road to UF/Bama and play UGA, USC, Oklahoma and prolly LSU or Ole Miss. That is gonna be a tougher schedule than this year. People need to realize 2016 or 2017 is gonna be our years to demand high season goals. We are there because we went the 3 coaches in 5 years route.

Firing Fulmer and the way things turned out caused us to essentially be relevant for our numerous ways to lose a game and become a 7 win team, at best, for an 8 -9 year window.
 
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#111
#111
JMSqb11 said:
Did you not read my last paragraph. We essentially went one route that will require 8 years of losing football and a 4-5 year rebuild. My point is that I believe Fulmer, who knew SEC football and the other teams, could have cut that time in half. Now we have had Kiff and Dools who were morons. Those essentially sabotaged Butch and his offensive system. Everyone says lookout in 2015. I am hoping everyone isn't turning on Butch in 2015. In 2015, we go on the road to UF/Bama and play UGA, USC, Oklahoma and prolly LSU or Ole Miss. That is gonna be a tougher schedule than this year. People need to realize 2016 or 2017 is gonna be our years to demand high season goals. We are there because we went the 3 coaches in 5 years route.

Firing Fulmer and the way things turned out caused us to essentially be relevant for our numerous ways to lose a game and become a 7 win team, at best, for an 8 -9 year window.
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why should Fulmer have gotten 4 more years to turn around his own mess? He had quite a bit of time to make sure that didn't happen

if there was a wake up call it should have happened in 2005. It didn't and 2008 happened
 
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#113
#113
utvolpj said:
why should Fulmer have gotten 4 years to turn around his own mess? He had quite a bit of time to make sure that didn't happen

if there was a wake up call it should have happened in 2005. It didn't and 2008 happened
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It did. He hired Cutcliffe back and had success that most would kill for in 2006 and 2007. Then he made a bad hire in 2008 with Clawson. What's to say he wouldn't make a good hire in 2009? Nothing.
 
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#114
#114
whobethis16 said:
It did. He hired Cutcliffe back and had success that most would kill for in 2006 and 2007. Then he made a bad hire in 2008 with Clawson. What's to say he wouldn't make a good hire in 2009? Nothing.
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Clawson wasn't going to be fired. He'd told Fulmer up front that he needed two years to get players acclimated to his offense.

Kiffin let him go.
 
#116
#116
k-town_king said:
Fulmer needed to go. If we hire Sumlin or some one else instead of Dooley we aren't having this discussion.
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Nobody wanted the job! Does nobody remember this. Nobody wanted it after Fulmer was fired, after Kiffin bolted, or after Dooley got canned. Sumlin is probably a goat in Texas if not for little Johnny football. We had a winner. You can break down his career to fit your agenda however you want. Fact is things have gotten worse,........ A LOT WORSE!
 
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#117
#117
whobethis16 said:
It did. He hired Cutcliffe back and had success that most would kill for in 2006 and 2007. Then he made a bad hire in 2008 with Clawson. What's to say he wouldn't make a good hire in 2009? Nothing.
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he got lucky with Cut being available again but that was simply a band-aid and everyone knew it. Look at his other choices for OC besides Cut and let me know if you still think he picks a good one.

his goal was to reach Neyland's total no matter how many 5-7 win seasons it took.
 
#118
#118
TheRain said:
That will continue to be ignored.
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No one is disputing that UT was in a down cycle when Coach Fulmer was fired. We can argue the net effect all day long but one thing is painfully obvious. We took a program on the inevitable downhill slide and pushed it on over the cliff. And yes, here we sit at the bottom still trying to justify Fulmer's firing. I think Coach Jones will get us out of this, if given enough time, however remember he and the program will eventually go through another down cycle and we can start all over again. The Dooley buyout may be the his greatest legacy. The financial situation may buy Coach Jones enough time to get the job done.
 
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#119
#119
MedicT said:
No one is disputing that UT was in a down cycle when Coach Fulmer was fired. We can argue the net effect all day long but one thing is painfully obvious. We took a program on the inevitable downhill slide and pushed it on over the cliff. And yes, here we sit at the bottom still trying to justify Fulmer's firing. I think Coach Jones will get us out of this, if given enough time, however remember he and the program will eventually go through another down cycle and we can start all over again. The Kiffin/Dooley buyouts may be the two coaches greatest legacy. The financial situation may buy Coach Jones enough time to get the job done.
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What Kiffin Buyout?
 
#120
#120
The bad hires extended the down cycle... You can't just excuse Fulmer because you like him.
 
#122
#122
MedicT said:
My mistake, post is corrected. Kiffin paid us 800000, correct?
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I don't recall the amount but yes Kiffin had to buy out of his contract with UT.

The Fulmer and Dooley buyouts were 6 and 5 milllion iirc. That is a lot of money to say bye to someone
 
#123
#123
TheRain said:
The bad hires extended the down cycle... You can't just excuse Fulmer because you like him.
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I'm not excusing Fulmer. Do I see, in hindsight as an armchair coach, things he might have done differently? Of course, but UT has paid a heavy price for the decision to fire him right or wrong. As a UT football fan it is difficult not to "like" a proven national championship coach. No other candidate for the job has had such a pedigree. But, on a positive note, we are now on our way out of a very deep hole. I think we found a diamond in the rough with Coach Jones.
 
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#124
#124
MedicT said:
I'm not excusing Fulmer. Do I see, in hindsight as an armchair coach, things he might have done differently? Of course, but UT has paid a heavy price for the decision to fire him right or wrong.
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We paid a heavy price for picking Kiffin and Dooley. Not for firing Fulmer (outside of the 6 million buyout).
 
#125
#125
I've never disparaged Fulmer personally. You won't hear any fat jokes from me. He's a super person and fine man. There's absolutely NO DOUBT in his love of the University. I do believe though, like many successful head coaches, he fell in love more with himself. His best move would have been to bow out after 2002, and become AD. At that point, some other big head coaching jobs, maybe even one in the NFL, would have likely been available to him.

The 2002-2008 stretch speaks for itself. During that time the number of players from UT on active NFL rosters started dropping. UT went from a perennial top three among all Universities to a current rank of # ten. UT was never a national champion contender (save the 2002 and 2005 preseason rank) during any one single season. That's not national relevance! The 2004 season was perhaps Phillip's best work as a HC and had plenty of momentum going into the 2005 season. His public claim that he was conducting a national search for an OC was a farce. Everyone knew it was going to be Cutliffe. He was perfect except he made it clear he wasn't making a long term commitment. Instantly some discipline came back to the team. Ainge had to get rid of his earring. Cutcliffe spoke of how undisciplined the Vols had become in the years leading up to 2006. We started great but faded. A badly choked 4th quarter against Florida at home, both by Ainge AND Fulmer.

2007...Not such a great coaching job for the season, save a couple of games, Georgia and Arkansas. Both big wins which won the Eastern division for us. We had a chance the SECCG, but Ainge folded up with a inexcusable pick 6 or we might have pulled off a huge upset. It would have gotten us into a BCS bowl for the first time in 9 years, at that point.

2008....nevermind going through those depressing details

Would we likely be a little bit better right now had we retained Fulmer? Yes, I believe so, but that's not University of Tennessee standard football. While we haven't gotten back to that, the future seems somewhat bright with CBJ's seemingly great recruiting skills. That's what is going to get us back to national relevance. Getting the best players. Ask any great head coach!
 
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