'24 GA WR Mike Matthews (Tennessee)

#132
#132
There is more to paying someone than just "getting them". I run into this at work. Even if I want to pay someone a higher wage, I have to balance that against what others make. You also have to understand that what you give a guy like this sets you up to have to pay the same or more to the next guy or else they'll consider it "disrespect".

In short, paying someone more than they're worth is short-sighted and dumb.
 
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#133
#133
sjt18 said:
There is more to paying someone than just "getting them". I run into this at work. Even if I want to pay someone a higher wage, I have to balance that against what others make. You also have to understand that what you give a guy like this sets you up to have to pay the same or more to the next guy or else they'll consider it "disrespect".

In short, paying someone more than they're worth is short-sighted and dumb.
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I agree with most of that.
But the last sentence I can't agree with.
I've never known an agency that was able to fully grasp a person's value despite job description.

So in the football sense- for example-
Who's more valuable?

- The caretaker QB that's extremely patient and cerebral. Doesn't turn the ball over for you ball control offense and aggressive talented defense ?
- Or the explosive QB, that struggles reading disguised blitzes, situational football. All the while having 4.3 speed in his feet and 70 yards on his accurate arm?

It's not always apples to apples for each position
 
#134
#134
LittleVol said:
I agree with most of that.
But the last sentence I can't agree with.
I've never known an agency that was able to fully grasp a person's value despite job description.

So in the football sense- for example-
Who's more valuable?

- The caretaker QB that's extremely patient and cerebral. Doesn't turn the ball over for you ball control offense and aggressive talented defense ?
- Or the explosive QB, that struggles reading disguised blitzes, situational football. All the while having 4.3 speed in his feet and 70 yards on his accurate arm?

It's not always apples to apples for each position
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I think you kind of get it and kind of don't. There's some subjectivity but you can tell who your A, B, C, and F employees or candidates are. I've got a couple of guys who are extraordinary. They're As. No question. You can't pay a B/C value employee in the same range or you're asking for big trouble.

As for your example, I've come to realize that I build teams differently. Teams over time reflect their leader's style, methods, and vision. There are different ways to succeed but teams like mine who do the same thing as 30+ other plants... aren't the same as those teams. We value different things. We have a different culture. We do a lot of things different. I've seen the "stars" of other plants and just don't see it.

So value comes down to skill and then how that person fits what you're doing. There's some science but a lot of art too.
 
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#135
#135
BigOrangeTrain said:
No they don’t. If they did their recruiting classes would be #1 every year. If they did Jimbo Fisher would have already been fired.
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That first point isn’t entirely true. Some guys would rather get 100k a year and be developed into a better player and have a better chance at competing for a national championship and getting drafted higher. Like Georgia and Bama do and even Ohio State to an extent. For QBs and WRs USC is the place to go. Every big time program has a nice chunk of change to spend. Some guys would just rather not live in College Station and would rather play for actual contenders and good coaches than someone like Jimbo
 
#136
#136
sjt18 said:
I think you kind of get it and kind of don't. There's some subjectivity but you can tell who your A, B, C, and F employees or candidates are. I've got a couple of guys who are extraordinary. They're As. No question. You can't pay a B/C value employee in the same range or you're asking for big trouble.

As for your example, I've come to realize that I build teams differently. Teams over time reflect their leader's style, methods, and vision. There are different ways to succeed but teams like mine who do the same thing as 30+ other plants... aren't the same as those teams. We value different things. We have a different culture. We do a lot of things different. I've seen the "stars" of other plants and just don't see it.

So value comes down to skill and then how that person fits what you're doing.
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I truly do get all of that.

But I'm saying that value can change, because people change.
Im sure you've had guys that worked hard to get a promotion and then coast once they got it. Hell maybe you even had to fire them later because they couldn't sustain the new expectations.
In an executive capacity, yes as the executive you have to have a structure (model), and put pieces where they can support that vision. A vision born from a market demand that your carefully vetted people supply.
However, I would argue that things like employee engagement, professional development are very underrated. I've seen a person move from the manufacturing line to being an account manager in the same company. All because the company's self interest long term very much aligned with this person energy or personal interest.
Example : Walk-on Stetson Bennett. He was a walk-on that had to earn a scholarship the 2nd time around. Then he becomes a 2 x National Champion starting QB. Now VALUE wise, most of the country would say Hendon Hooker deserves 1 Million for his Jr and Sr year. While Stetson should be happy if he gets 250k for his efforts. Apples to Apples, talent to talent, prospect to prospect, most would say there's no comparison. Hendon is the better product. But ask a Georgia Fan (where the $ ultimately comes from) if they think Hendon is worth more in winning football games.

Team chemistry and finding the right elements for winning culture is sometimes more important than making sure that you throw the ball to your 5 star WR all the time...because he's physically talented and WORTH a lot from a football market standpoint.

NIL is incredibly subjective. It's absolutely not just pure talent vs pure talent.
 
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#137
#137
BigOrangeTrain said:
No they don’t. If they did their recruiting classes would be #1 every year. If they did Jimbo Fisher would have already been fired.
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Just not true..They both have $hit ton's of money and that Does NOT guarantee a #1 class.. They have the funds to buy out Jimbo, but no way do they want that bad presd and to admit they were wrong. In 2022 A'M Boosters dished out over 30 mill in NIL Deals alone. Yes they have large and unlimited funds.


Texas A&M Boosters Spent Unfathomable Amount Of Money To Land No. 1 Recruiting Class, Per Report
 
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#139
#139
LittleVol said:
I truly do get all of that.

But I'm saying that value can change, because people change.
Im sure you've had guys that worked hard to get a promotion and then coast once they got it. Hell maybe you even had to fire them later because they couldn't sustain the new expectations.
In an executive capacity, yes as the executive you have to have a structure (model), and put pieces where they can support that vision. A vision born from a market demand that your carefully vetted people supply.
However, I would argue that things like employee engagement, professional development are very underrated. I've seen a person move from the manufacturing line to being an account manager in the same company. All because the company's self interest long term very much aligned with this person energy or personal interest.
Example : Walk-on Stetson Bennett. He was a walk-on that had to earn a scholarship the 2nd time around. Then he becomes a 2 x National Champion starting QB. Now VALUE wise, most of the country would say Hendon Hooker deserves 1 Million for his Jr and Sr year. While Stetson should be happy if he gets 250k for his efforts. Apples to Apples, talent to talent, prospect to prospect, most would say there's no comparison. Hendon is the better product. But ask a Georgia Fan (where the $ ultimately comes from) if they think Hendon is worth more in winning football games.

Team chemistry and finding the right elements for winning culture is sometimes more important than making sure that you throw the ball to your 5 star WR all the time...because he's physically talented and WORTH a lot from a football market standpoint.

NIL is incredibly subjective. It's absolutely not just pure talent vs pure talent.
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I think we're dancing around a point of almost complete agreement.

That last point is most relevant. Maybe where we are disconnected is that I'm talking about recruiting and potential. Once a guy comes in and proves himself then his value is much better known but like you point out... that may not be limited to the sum of his talent or even a true reflection of how good he is. I think Bennett is hard to evaluate because he's never played on a team with OL holes. He's never had less than elite talent around him. He's never had a bad D he had to compensate for. Give him major props for managing all of that at an extremely high level that the 4/5* guys around him apparently couldn't. However that likely resulted in his NIL value being out of line with his actual talent.

But I have no problem paying for performance even if I don't exactly understand how it is produced by someone.

My point was specifically to the point of what you can invest in a HS recruit who has never proven any value at all in CFB. If you overpay someone like Matthews then you're pretty much committed to doing the same for similar guys in the future. While rich programs can afford to over pay for one guy... they can't do it endlessly.
 
#145
#145
Ron Swanson said:
Poster on VQ…
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i-like-it-a-lot-jim-carrey.gif
 
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#150
#150
If Georgia is going to continue to recruit nationally, then we have to continue making the state of Georgia a priority. Lots of top end talent to be had every year. Kids that might have a chip on their shoulder to beat the home state school. Even if UGA recruited them, but not on the same level that we did.
 
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