Gaby Sanchez Won My Rookie of The Year Vote Tonight.

#76
#76
GahLee said:
You play to win the game...hello!

You can say it is bull but to me, he got his team a run all on his own...it's not over 'till it's over.

Not sure why people have a problem with him running just cause they were down by so much. I have a problem with them throwing at him because they can't throw him out.
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The run means jack when you're down 11. Morgan is laying in the bed he has made.

The great thing about baseball is the players will police themselves for the most part. The cheap shiz he pulled on the Andersen deal sent a message across the League. Morgan is bush.

And he did nothing to change that persona during this latest debacle.
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#77
#77
Ohio Vol said:
Isn't it still a violation of the rules for a catcher to be blocking the basepath if he doesn't have the ball in his possession or is in the process of getting to a throw? It's funny because I don't think the rule has ever actually been changed, and I have yet to see any pre-1965 video that has a home plate collision or a catcher in the basepath. A lot of close plays from the catcher getting the ball and then trying to apply the tag, but not standing there and waiting.

Anyway, all this crap about "defending a teammate" is a bunch of ridiculous pseudo-machismo. Let's consider the following:
1) A pitch that hits a batter can inflict a debilitating or fatal injury, whether thrown intentionally at him or not
2) That baseball allows players to leave the dugout or bullpen when an incident is in progress is a sure way to escalate nothing into something much worse
3) That baseball has no problem allowing additional players to become directly involved in said incident is ridiculous on several levels
4) That this crap is what masquerades as "team building" is even more ridiculous
5) In spite of what some may have us believe, the numbers of hit batsmen actually skyrocketed post-1970, which flies in the face of the idea that "Gibson would have put him down; in fact, anyone would have put him down for pulling on his jersey or for looking at him or for adjusting your nuts in the batters box".

I played hockey for a few years, so the idea of throwing down with someone who's being an idiot is certainly not a foreign concept to me. But what you don't see are players shooting pucks at each other. You don't see players leaving the bench when there's a fight (the NHL has a mandatory 10-game suspension for doing this, whether you actually join in or not). You don't see players jumping in on a fight in progress (third man in equals immediate ejection and a suspension). And you don't see bench-clearing brawls (last one in the NHL: February 26, 1987).

Baseball needs to get their collective heads out of their asses. There are some very minor rule adjustments and enforcements that need to take place to preserve the basic essence of the game. Namely:
- Don't let hitters step out of the box once their at-bat starts
- Don't let hitters call for time once the at-bat starts (barring an emergency of some type)
- Mandate that any player who leaves the dugout or bullpen during an on-field altercation be suspended for 12 games, with the team not being allowed to replace his roster spot
- Mandate that a player who joins an altercation in progress be suspended 12 games (if someone leaves the bullpen to join in, 24 games)

Games would be faster, and the stupid crap like throwing at a guy's head and seeing the benches empty would go away. Neither one has any purpose in baseball.
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You should stick to hockey. HBPs have skyrocketed because trash like Craig Biggio and others have been allowed to come to home plate armored up like stormtroopers and stand on the inside line of the batters box. People weren't stupid enough to do that in the pre modern batting helmet days against guys like Newcombe and Gibson. Why not go further with your rules? Every player could wear a skirt and the teams could exchange orange wedges and Kool Aid during the seventh inning stretch, when Kumbaya would replace Take Me Out To The Ballgame.
 
#80
#80
hatvol96 said:
You should stick to hockey. HBPs have skyrocketed because trash like Craig Biggio and others have been allowed to come to home plate armored up like stormtroopers and stand on the inside line of the batters box. People weren't stupid enough to do that in the pre modern batting helmet days against guys like Newcombe and Gibson. Why not go further with your rules? Every player could wear a skirt and the teams could exchange orange wedges and Kool Aid during the seventh inning stretch, when Kumbaya would replace Take Me Out To The Ballgame.
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Well damn, I went through several points and you choose to ignore all of them except for one that was strictly an aside that I didn't really go into any depth on. Newcombe, by the way, averaged 1 HBP every 70 innings. Gibson was about 1 every 39 innings. Jim Kaat hit batters more frequently, and he pitched mostly during an era that had fewer HBP than when the other two were in their heyday.

I'd argue that HBP has also skyrocketed not just because of the armor factor, but because more guys stand on top of the plate. Bill James suggested moving the batters box back by a total of four inches, spread out one inch over several years. This would force hitters to back off the plate and reduce what you call "the Stormtroopers" leaning into pitches as an offensive weapon.

As for your last bit of snark, I fail to see how some basic common sense constitutes a pansification of baseball. Maybe it's just me, but I don't see what's supposed to be such a great experience about being buried at the bottom of a dogpile, or being tag-teamed by three or four opposing players.
 
#81
#81
hatvol96 said:
Good point. We need to eliminate that danger. Welcome to Major League T Ball.
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Don't be obtuse. It's idiotic to hear some first-class jackass in a press box talking about how "the last guy hit a home run, so you need to throw at the next guy coming up. Send a message."

Great message there. "I don't give a damn if I put the #8 hitter on for no reason at all, I'm going to throw a projectile at 100 MPH directly at someone."
 
#82
#82
Ohio Vol said:
I don't see what's supposed to be such a great experience about being buried at the bottom of a dogpile, or being tag-teamed by three or four opposing players.
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When it's guys like Nyjer Morgan at the bottom of the pile or on the receiving end of the tag team beatdown, it's a wonderful viewing experience.
 
#83
#83
Ohio Vol said:
Don't be obtuse. It's idiotic to hear some first-class jackass in a press box talking about how "the last guy hit a home run, so you need to throw at the next guy coming up. Send a message."

Great message there. "I don't give a damn if I put the #8 hitter on for no reason at all, I'm going to throw a projectile at 100 MPH directly at someone."
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Who said anything about throwing at guys because somebody hit a home run?
 
#84
#84
hatvol96 said:
When it's guys like Nyjer Morgan at the bottom of the pile or on the receiving end of the tag team beatdown, it's a wonderful viewing experience.
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As much as I enjoy seeing punks get theirs, there has to be a better way. If the umpires want to stand back and let a pitcher and Morgan have a fistfight out there, go for it. If it comes to several other players getting involved, that's just stupid.

hatvol96 said:
Who said anything about throwing at guys because somebody hit a home run?
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Since my original reference was to the basic fact that being hit with a pitch can cause serious injury, prompting a smart-ass comment on your part, I was referring to those who fail to recognize that there's legitimate potential for danger when it comes to throwing at someone. What makes Jose Mesa throwing at Omar Vizquel because of a personal grudge any different than throwing at the next random hitter because of something the last guy did, or someone who got hit in the last half-inning?
 
#85
#85
Ohio Vol said:
As much as I enjoy seeing punks get theirs, there has to be a better way. If the umpires want to stand back and let a pitcher and Morgan have a fistfight out there, go for it. If it comes to several other players getting involved, that's just stupid.



Since my original reference was to the basic fact that being hit with a pitch can cause serious injury, prompting a smart-ass comment on your part, I was referring to those who fail to recognize that there's legitimate potential for danger when it comes to throwing at someone. What makes Jose Mesa throwing at Omar Vizquel because of a personal grudge any different than throwing at the next random hitter because of something the last guy did, or someone who got hit in the last half-inning?
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Vizquel's a whiny little douche who has left guys who hate his guts in his wake at every stop he's had in the majors. If you want to rip guys in a book you write celebrating your meaningless career, don't be surprised if they take a shot at you. Such is life.
 
#86
#86
hatvol96 said:
Vizquel's a whiny little douche who has left guys who hate his guts in his wake at every stop he's had in the majors. If you want to rip guys in a book you write celebrating your meaningless career, don't be surprised if they take a shot at you. Such is life.
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In no other sport is something like the beanball used for such a case. Hockey has fighting, football might have a chop block or a high hit (on a receiver/DB), basketball has hard fouls. None of those is really comparable to whipping a hard projectile at someone.

Now, if the other sports used the idea of forcing someone to listen to Celine Dion...
 
#87
#87
Ohio Vol said:
In no other sport is something like the beanball used for such a case. Hockey has fighting, football might have a chop block or a high hit (on a receiver/DB), basketball has hard fouls. None of those is really comparable to whipping a hard projectile at someone.
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I spent a summer with a severely contused rib courtesy of Chad Ogea because his coach felt I slid too hard into their team's shortstop in a summer league playoff game. I took no offense. My guy, who went on to pitch in the Pittsburgh system, drilled said shortstop between the shoulder blades in his next at bat and everyone called it even. That's how it goes.
 
#88
#88
hatvol96 said:
I spent a summer with a severely contused rib courtesy of Chad Ogea because his coach felt I slid too hard into their team's shortstop in a summer league playoff game. I took no offense. My guy, who went on to pitch in the Pittsburgh system, drilled said shortstop between the shoulder blades in his next at bat and everyone called it even. That's how it goes.
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By the same token, I got a massive contusion across my neck because I apparently got too close to the opposing team's goalie during a rec league hockey game. Whether it's accepted practice or not doesn't mean it's still not incredibly dumb.

(I still remember the Indians fans gushing about the upcoming phenoms of Ogea and Brian Anderson; except for Ogea in the 97 World Series, those are two largely forgettable careers)
 
#89
#89
Ohio Vol said:
(I still remember the Indians fans gushing about the upcoming phenoms of Ogea and Brian Anderson; except for Ogea in the 97 World Series, those are two largely forgettable careers)
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I faced both of them at points during summers in my high school years. I could have spared the Cleveland fans the disappointment.
 
#90
#90
hatvol96 said:
I'll simply borrow your theory about Morgan running over catchers. He needs to get out of the way of pitches thrown at him. See how simple that is?
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A lot easier to dodge a human than a 90+ heater.

Separated shoulder vs Bobby Doerr...not even close but nice try.
 
#91
#91
hatvol96 said:
I spent a summer with a severely contused rib courtesy of Chad Ogea because his coach felt I slid too hard into their team's shortstop in a summer league playoff game. I took no offense. My guy, who went on to pitch in the Pittsburgh system, drilled said shortstop between the shoulder blades in his next at bat and everyone called it even. That's how it goes.
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They got even on the first HBP, throwing at him again made it a volatile situation.
 
#92
#92
GahLee said:
They got even on the first HBP, throwing at him again made it a volatile situation.
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Wasn't that volatile. You sure didn't see many guys in Washington uniforms racing in to put their bodies on the line for Morgan.
 
#93
#93
hatvol96 said:
Wasn't that volatile. You sure didn't see many guys in Washington uniforms racing in to put their bodies on the line for Morgan.
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It happened pretty quick, not only that but there were more Marlins in the general vicinity.
 
#94
#94
GahLee said:
It happened pretty quick, not only that but there were more Marlins in the general vicinity.
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Yeah, they were probably all of ten feet or so closer to the Marlins dugout. I'm sure that massive distance is why you didn't see Zimmerman or Dunn going into the pile in defense of Poor, Poor Nyjer.
 
#95
#95
hatvol96 said:
Yeah, they were probably all of ten feet or so closer to the Marlins dugout. I'm sure that massive distance is why you didn't see Zimmerman or Dunn going into the pile in defense of Poor, Poor Nyjer.
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This isn't a matter of whether his teammates like him or he is a stand-up guy...they should not have thrown at him the second time around, pure and simple.
 
#96
#96
GahLee said:
This isn't a matter of whether his teammates like him or he is a stand-up guy...they should not have thrown at him the second time around, pure and simple.
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Watch the suspensions Volstad and Sanchez receive. That'll speak volumes about how people inside the game see this incident.
 
#99
#99
hatvol96 said:
You should stick to hockey. HBPs have skyrocketed because trash like Craig Biggio and others have been allowed to come to home plate armored up like stormtroopers and stand on the inside line of the batters box. People weren't stupid enough to do that in the pre modern batting helmet days against guys like Newcombe and Gibson. Why not go further with your rules? Every player could wear a skirt and the teams could exchange orange wedges and Kool Aid during the seventh inning stretch, when Kumbaya would replace Take Me Out To The Ballgame.
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Exactly. :good!:
 
#100
#100
Baseball has unwritten rules. When you are perceived across the majors as a dbag bush league player and you break those rules then you better be tough enough to accept the consequences, especially when you've pissed off the team you are playing the night before.
 
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