Game Thread: (12/8) Lady Vols 64 - Alabama 74

[glv98]

I think Walker and Miles play pretty good defense. Everyone of our players gets blown by from time to time. IMO Miles brings awesome defensive energy and Walker has done lockdown for short stints on some really good offensive players. Walker is also shooting a little better and has hit some major buckets for us this year. Miles has very little offensive game but fortunately, we don't need scoring from that position (usually).

I think we're mad at them over turnovers and lack of ability to get us into a decent offensive flow. The first one they are absolutely guilty of, both make telegraphed and ill-advised passes alot. The other one's the hard one, and I'm not sure its completely their fault our half court offense struggles. We just don't move or cut very well most of the time.

I wonder what this truly elite PG we all drool over will do differently to get the motion moving on offense? Maybe see the floor better and more quickly? A better, crisper plan from the coaches wouldn't hurt either. Ya'll watch the men lately? That's the dream.

 

[Amb3096]

It is mind boggling that an 18-1 team can fall off of a cliff like this. These four defeats since the 19th game have been blowouts vs both a national power and SEC also-rans. All have been away games. This is not the MO of a solidly contstructed 18-1 team. How to explain it?

I think Kellie simply did a masterful job of hiding her team's weaknesses through the first 19 games, then opposing coaches started exploiting and exposing weaknesses: 1) lack of overall team speed and quickness, 2) poor shooting and poor FT shooting, 3) lack of a true PG of SEC quality, and 4) guards that cannot defend 1 on 1.

The injury bug has also hit us, and hard, but I don't think that's the explanation for imploding like this. It was very troubling to see the team not focused or ready to play last night, when there is so much to play for. Kellie is the one who said that. It's not a good sign, and it is on Kellie to prepare her team better than that. I can only assign the lack of focus and readiness on the coach. I can think of no other reason. She needs to resolve whatever is going on there.

But now we're exposed, and we're without Jordy. I don't see a good ending to the season. I'll still be rooting hard for them. I hope I'm wrong in my pessimism for the rest of the year.

My thoughts are already going to next season, when Pissott will arrive. Hopefully, Kellie will shore up weaknesses through the portal and we can get back on track.

The biggest difference that I've noticed pre and post Georgia game is the defense. The went 18-1 because they were a lock down defensive team. Sure, they couldn't shoot straight themselves, but their defense made their opponents look even worse. They were winning games by overwhelming them on defense, not on offense. Since the Georgia game, they've given up 70+ points in all of their losses, but had good defensive outings against Vandy and Mizzou to keep them under 70. It seems that if they can keep their opponents under 70, then that is almost a magic number for them. Arkansas was an exception, but they had one of those rare games where they were able to outshoot them.

Key in particular has not been the same on defense. Last five games she had 1 (Bama), 0 (Vandy), 7 (Ark), 1 (UConn), 0 (UF) blocks. She was the anchor on defense, and if opposing teams aren't afraid of going into her territory, then the defense will fall apart.

I don't think they have the personnel to beat SC (they play the same, but are significantly more talented from 1-15), but there's no reason they can't beat an undersized MSST or inconsistent LSU teams. The season isn't over by any means. Even if Horston is out for the season, Rae Burrell and Tamari Key are still a very good 1-2 matchup. If Rae's offense is flowing and Tamari's defense is back to its old form, they can stay in it against most of the teams not at the top.

 

[Amb3096]

I think Walker and Miles play pretty good defense. Everyone of our players gets blown by from time to time. IMO Miles brings awesome defensive energy and Walker has done lockdown for short stints on some really good offensive players. Walker is also shooting a little better and has hit some major buckets for us this year. Miles has very little offensive game but fortunately, we don't need scoring from that position (usually).

I think we're mad at them over turnovers and lack of ability to get us into a decent offensive flow. The first one they are absolutely guilty of, both make telegraphed and ill-advised passes alot. The other one's the hard one, and I'm not sure its completely their fault our half court offense struggles. We just don't move or cut very well most of the time.

I wonder what this truly elite PG we all drool over will do differently to get the motion moving on offense? Maybe see the floor better and more quickly? A better, crisper plan from the coaches wouldn't hurt either. Ya'll watch the men lately? That's the dream.

Run some offensive plays would be nice. They also have to be able to salvage a broken play by creating for themselves. Walker is too slow, Miles is too limited offensively. We see what Bueckers or Clark can do; for everyone saying a scoring PG isn't needed, I say that it's a nice option to have in your back pocket.

 

[madtownvol]

The biggest difference that I've noticed pre and post Georgia game is the defense. The went 18-1 because they were a lock down defensive team. Sure, they couldn't shoot straight themselves, but their defense made their opponents look even worse. They were winning games by overwhelming them on defense, not on offense. Since the Georgia game, they've given up 70+ points in all of their losses, but had good defensive outings against Vandy and Mizzou to keep them under 70. It seems that if they can keep their opponents under 70, then that is almost a magic number for them. Arkansas was an exception, but they had one of those rare games where they were able to outshoot them.

Key in particular has not been the same on defense. Last five games she had 1 (Bama), 0 (Vandy), 7 (Ark), 1 (UConn), 0 (UF) blocks. She was the anchor on defense, and if opposing teams aren't afraid of going into her territory, then the defense will fall apart.

I don't think they have the personnel to beat SC (they play the same, but are significantly more talented from 1-15), but there's no reason they can't beat an undersized MSST or inconsistent LSU teams. The season isn't over by any means. Even if Horston is out for the season, Rae Burrell and Tamari Key are still a very good 1-2 matchup. If Rae's offense is flowing and Tamari's defense is back to its old form, they can stay in it against most of the teams not at the top.

They were so low energy for the first 3 quarters of the Bama game. For a while I thought, well, we just don't have the quickness to keep the Bama guards from driving the lane. Then, when the LVs upped the defensive intensity in 4th quarter, it was like oh, they can shut these guards down if they want. Had the LVs not been shooting bricks from the arc and the FT, they might have pulled this game despite the big hole they dug themselves. While there this is no excuse for losing this game, the reality is that a team that wins on effort and hustle is very vulnerable on nights when the effort, for whatever reason, is not at a high level.

Per Key, it seems like the difference is that teams are drawing her out on defense. I wonder if would not be better to let opposing post players have that mid range jumper, covered by a smaller player and have TK stay anchored in the paint (which is what zone defenses allow to happen). Having said that, she was one of the bright spots from last night (and Rae's first half offensive game).

 

[glv98]

Key in particular has not been the same on defense. Last five games she had 1 (Bama), 0 (Vandy), 7 (Ark), 1 (UConn), 0 (UF) blocks. She was the anchor on defense, and if opposing teams aren't afraid of going into her territory, then the defense will fall apart.

And that's what we were afraid of when Green went down. People who roll out Green's game stats to say she's not that big a loss need to think again. With hindsight, maybe too much emphasis was put on Key to just stay in the game. I've been saying for a few games she needs to just loosen up, be smart but play her game and let the chips fall,. That's especially true now.

Even if Horston is out for the season, Rae Burrell and Tamari Key are still a very good 1-2 matchup. If Rae's offense is flowing and Tamari's defense is back to its old form, they can stay in it against most of the teams not at the top.

The tiny percentage of me that's optimistic remembers we felt this same defeated way when Rae got hurt and look what happened. What a great story it would make if Rae came back and did for Jordan what Jordan did for her.

Real me says so much has happened since then, everyone is tired, and this is about 4th major blow to the gut. Packing it in is not out of the question. This is a huge challenge for KJH. If the team chemistry is still what we've heard all season, they'll at least go down fighting.

 

[VolFuture]

This will probably drop them out of the top 16.. and depending on Horstons injury maybe further considering the committee takes active roster into account. LSU and SC on the horizon… oh geez

Update… it did :/ 19th now on committee rank

 

[Amb3096]

And that's what we were afraid of when Green went down. People who roll out Green's game stats to say she's not that big a loss need to think again. With hindsight, maybe too much emphasis was put on Key to just stay in the game. I've been saying for a few games she needs to just loosen up, be smart but play her game and let the chips fall,. That's especially true now.

I said the same thing on the BY when they were trotting out Keyen's stats. Tennessee has no serviceable backup for Tamari now, and the result is she's playing more tentatively. But that was true for Boston in the past and during ND's last two FF teams, and they adjusted. It's not an excuse. And while I do acknowledge that she was a team leader, she only played like 2 games last year and half a season this year. If a teammate who played that sparingly is so critical to team leadership that they can't persevere without her, then that's not a good reflection of the leadership of the upperclassmen.

The tiny percentage of me that's optimistic remembers we felt this same defeated way when Rae got hurt and look what happened. What a great story it would make if Rae came back and did for Jordan what Jordan did for her.

Real me says so much has happened since then, everyone is tired, and this is about 4th major blows to the gut. Packing it in is not out of the question. This is a huge challenge for KJH. If the team chemistry is still what we've heard all season, they'll at least go down fighting.

Madtown above hit it on the head. They have been winning with effort more than skill. They have a lower margin for error compared to some of the more talented teams out there. There will be opportunities where the stars align and Rae and Tamari are shining bright and everyone else is doing enough to cause an uproar, but it probably won't be day in/day out until the final game is played.

 

[youcancallmeAl]

The biggest difference that I've noticed pre and post Georgia game is the defense. The went 18-1 because they were a lock down defensive team. Sure, they couldn't shoot straight themselves, but their defense made their opponents look even worse. They were winning games by overwhelming them on defense, not on offense. Since the Georgia game, they've given up 70+ points in all of their losses, but had good defensive outings against Vandy and Mizzou to keep them under 70. It seems that if they can keep their opponents under 70, then that is almost a magic number for them. Arkansas was an exception, but they had one of those rare games where they were able to outshoot them.

Key in particular has not been the same on defense. Last five games she had 1 (Bama), 0 (Vandy), 7 (Ark), 1 (UConn), 0 (UF) blocks. She was the anchor on defense, and if opposing teams aren't afraid of going into her territory, then the defense will fall apart.

I don't think they have the personnel to beat SC (they play the same, but are significantly more talented from 1-15), but there's no reason they can't beat an undersized MSST or inconsistent LSU teams. The season isn't over by any means. Even if Horston is out for the season, Rae Burrell and Tamari Key are still a very good 1-2 matchup. If Rae's offense is flowing and Tamari's defense is back to its old form, they can stay in it against most of the teams not at the top.

So why would they play sterling defense for 19 games and then start playing lousy defense off and on starting with the 20th game? I can't figure that out. Could it be they lost their confidence after the Auburn game and just haven't gotten it back?

 

[creekdipper]

You are entitled to your opinion just as I am tyrant

Shouldn't that be, "I am tyrants?"

 

[glv98]

So why would they play sterling defense for 19 games and then start playing lousy defense off and on starting with the 20th game? I can't figure that out. Could it be they lost their confidence after the Auburn game and just haven't gotten it back?

Competition got better? Schedule was a little backloaded. Maybe tired legs? Lock down D takes a toll 20 games in.

 

[youcancallmeAl]

Competition got better? Schedule was a little backloaded. Maybe tired legs? Lock down D takes a toll 20 games in.

I don't think the competition got better, except for UConn. But certainly Auburn and Bama are not an upgrade over the competition pre-Auburn. Fatigue sounds like a rational explanation.

 

[gule]

Fatigue? humbug!!!!

everyone from coaches to the last girl on the bench thought they had it in the bag with that #4 ranking and let that ruin their mojo. Coach KJH is to blame for letting that happen.

 

[Amb3096]

So why would they play sterling defense for 19 games and then start playing lousy defense off and on starting with the 20th game? I can't figure that out. Could it be they lost their confidence after the Auburn game and just haven't gotten it back?

My opinion is that Key is afraid to get in foul trouble because of the weak post rotation once Green was injured. She's not as imposing of a presence inside on defense anymore, and not making their opponents think twice before taking it inside. I bet her blocks per game have gone way down since then.

 

[37620VOL]

The biggest difference that I've noticed pre and post Georgia game is the defense. The went 18-1 because they were a lock down defensive team. Sure, they couldn't shoot straight themselves, but their defense made their opponents look even worse. They were winning games by overwhelming them on defense, not on offense. Since the Georgia game, they've given up 70+ points in all of their losses, but had good defensive outings against Vandy and Mizzou to keep them under 70. It seems that if they can keep their opponents under 70, then that is almost a magic number for them. Arkansas was an exception, but they had one of those rare games where they were able to outshoot them.

Key in particular has not been the same on defense. Last five games she had 1 (Bama), 0 (Vandy), 7 (Ark), 1 (UConn), 0 (UF) blocks. She was the anchor on defense, and if opposing teams aren't afraid of going into her territory, then the defense will fall apart.

This is correct, defense is the Key to it all. We can't afford to give up 20 point quarters. Zero, we can't give up any and win.

I don't think Key's defense has dropped off at all. Teams aren't going at her anymore, and honestly, it's stupid if they try. You beat our defense by shooting over us and generating fastbreak points off turnovers. We need to lock down the perimeter defense and get back to funneling the opponent to Key.

 

[37620VOL]

So why would they play sterling defense for 19 games and then start playing lousy defense off and on starting with the 20th game? I can't figure that out. Could it be they lost their confidence after the Auburn game and just haven't gotten it back?

I think it may be mental fatigue more so than physical. It's hard to play tough, technical defense on every possession, every game. But that is what it will take for this team to win consistently. They have to force the opponent to take a tough shot on every possession from tip to buzzer. There is no other formula to win.

 

[madtownvol]

This is correct, defense is the Key to it all. We can't afford to give up 20 point quarters. Zero, we can't give up any and win.

I don't think Key's defense has dropped off at all. Teams aren't going at her anymore, and honestly, it's stupid if they try. You beat our defense by shooting over us and generating fastbreak points off turnovers. We need to lock down the perimeter defense and get back to funneling the opponent to Key.

The Bama was very simple. Spread the floor, have a guard drive the lane and either take a shot or kick out to the open shooter on the perimeter if the LV defense closed in. A lot hinged on Bama shooting well, which they did 10 for 25 from outside (compared to 5 for 29 from the first meeting.

When the LVs made the game competitive in the 4th quarter, they simply kept the Bama guards from driving past them and so the perimeter also stayed locked down.


So, I agree that mental and physical fatigue are taking a toll. But problems on one end compound problems on other end. It is hard to keep winning through defense and rebounds when you are such poor shooting team. Missed shots mean you have to exert energy going after offensive rebounds or chasing back in transition when the other teams rebounds your miss. If the LVs had been capable of hitting some of their open looks, they could have relieved a lot of the pressure they were facing on the defensive side of the court.

All the missed FTs have the same compounding effect. A missed FTs mean fighting for a rebound or chase back in transition plus you loose the mental lift of closing the score with the clock stopped.


Maybe its time to give the team a bit of a mental rest and make the next few weeks of practice nothing but shooting drills.

 

[Darth_Vol]

Ive been reading through the comments and my opinion on whats going on with this team isnt so much a chemistry issue.

Maybe stop filling your roster with mid-major players like you're still coaching in the Missouri Valley Conference... ?

 

[Govols922]

Lmao....Holly had seasons of 30, 29, 27, and 25 wins and got to 3 Elite Eights. She also could actually recruit. I wasnt a big fan of Warlick...but to act like Harper is a step up from her is idiotic.

You’re right, Jolette Law was a better recruiter. Hence the team that’s in SC. It’s not Idiotic to say Harper was a step up. Our offense is better and again she’s getting a 20 win season with players ranked outside of the top 10 minus Horston.

 

[willford65]

Except for Horston and Burrell the other players are a complete disaster, no way they are top players, at least what players were back in the day.

 

[madtownvol]

Except for Horston and Burrell the other players are a complete disaster, no way they are top players, at least what players were back in the day.

really, Tamari key is a complete disaster? Sarah Puckett a freshman of the year candidate, Hmmm....

 

[Twinsbornoncampus]

The biggest difference that I've noticed pre and post Georgia game is the defense. The went 18-1 because they were a lock down defensive team. Sure, they couldn't shoot straight themselves, but their defense made their opponents look even worse. They were winning games by overwhelming them on defense, not on offense. Since the Georgia game, they've given up 70+ points in all of their losses, but had good defensive outings against Vandy and Mizzou to keep them under 70. It seems that if they can keep their opponents under 70, then that is almost a magic number for them. Arkansas was an exception, but they had one of those rare games where they were able to outshoot them.

Key in particular has not been the same on defense. Last five games she had 1 (Bama), 0 (Vandy), 7 (Ark), 1 (UConn), 0 (UF) blocks. She was the anchor on defense, and if opposing teams aren't afraid of going into her territory, then the defense will fall apart.

I don't think they have the personnel to beat SC (they play the same, but are significantly more talented from 1-15), but there's no reason they can't beat an undersized MSST or inconsistent LSU teams. The season isn't over by any means. Even if Horston is out for the season, Rae Burrell and Tamari Key are still a very good 1-2 matchup. If Rae's offense is flowing and Tamari's defense is back to its old form, they can stay in it against most of the teams not at the top.

A bigger difference is the lost of Green, before this possible loss of Horston. I reviewed why I thought they would be better and I think it was because I wanted them to be better. If you look at the players we have over all we are good but we have bad habits the kind that gets us beat if you have an off night. Say another team limits our offensive rebounds and shoots 40% plus. Our habit of turning the ball over almost guarantees a lost. We are not dead we can turn this around. I also feel that chemistry was ruined when we put Burrell back in starting lineup, A all American candidate but dribbling kills this teams cohesiveness. We need to move shooting is better than dribbling into a crowd.

 

[creekdipper]

really, Tamari key is a complete disaster? Sarah Puckett a freshman of the year candidate, Hmmm....

Take a second to look at his posting history, and you'll quickly see that his issues with the young ladies have nothing to do with basketball. He swore off supporting the team last year early in the season after "the incident." Another one of those types.

 

[Coach Jumper]

Except for Horston and Burrell the other players are a complete disaster, no way they are top players, at least what players were back in the day.

hello Darth

 

[Rickster]

Except for Horston and Burrell the other players are a complete disaster, no way they are top players, at least what players were back in the day.

A completely senseless remark about the players. Complete disaster? Pitiful post intended to troll.

 

[youcancallmeAl]

This has been a consistent theme since Kellie took over... peaking too early then crapping out late. They look like a completely different team by postseason, and not in a good way...

It's only her third season. How can a consistent theme be established in such a small sample size? Inferential statistics is hard......