Game Thread: #13/10 LSU (23-4, 10-3) @ Tennessee (16-9, 9-4 SEC) 2/25/24 12:00 pm EST ESPN

[Majors]

So we hear a lot about all of these schools that bought out players that practically had their tickets booked to Tennessee. Yet, Tennessee still managed to get highly rated high school recruits Boyd, Brooks and Chastain without (presumably) paying them through the roof. Why is that? Is it because unlike all of those other players, these are highly virtuous and pure players who play for the love of the game, and not the love of money? And Kellie is handcuffed because only these caliber of players are available to the LVs?

I heard the same during Holly's days about how she refuses to back down from her "principles" when recruiting, and scoundrals needed to look at other schools. I kind of wonder if the whole NIL thing is being used as a convenient excuse for her recruiting inabilities. I also think it's pretty low brow to essentially accuse players of being for hire without proof just because they weren't as surefire a commit as originally thought (ex. del Rosario, Shade, etc.)

Monday morning facts!

 

[Amb3096]

Finally got around to watching the game. Even though neither team could shoot, they weren't just throwing the ball away either. Overall, it was pretty bad on both ends. So many missed layups, and I don't think that team defense even factored into it. Everyone pretty much neutralized each other out with mediocre-to-terrible play, except the PG spot where HVL outplayed Powell by a mile. Seems the trend in games against better teams is to to 1-on-2/3/4/5 and hope for the best. Her shot selection was terrible, and she didn't pressure HVL on the other end to make up for it. This is probably the only P5 game LSU has had this year where HVL didn't have a single turnover.

Kellie needs to get in JP's ear about playing "hero ball" in preparation for the TAMU game. They continue to look awful without Rogers, but HVL hasn't looked particularly good this season until yesterday, so they're probably due. This game will probably make or break Tennessee's tournament hopes, unless they go crazy in the SECT.

 

[Majors]

You think it's coincidence that Angel, from the school Del Rosario ended up at, used our lack of NIL as her parting taunt? That sealed it for me, ironically. Plus I now know for sure Earl knows what he's talking about, and Deer Park and MTSUraider always have. All have said the same thing.

A lot of accusations about Del Rosario without AR even mentioning her. Seems like a stretch “agenda” move. Had Del Rosario said it, you might have a point.

 

[glv98]

Yet, Tennessee still managed to get highly rated high school recruits Boyd, Brooks and Chastain without (presumably) paying them through the roof. Why is that

Before the latest ruling the other day weren't Brooks and Chastain too young to get NIL offers? It's all confusing.

Apparently for a few very young players, the LV brand holds alot of allure. I thinks that's the case for Brooks and Chastain. Brooks in particular seems a true believer. I'm trying not to remember that the last youngster who decided early she wanted to be an LVFL was Justine Pissot.

 

[glv98]

A lot of accusations about Del Rosario without AR even mentioning her. Seems like a stretch “agenda” move. Had Del Rosario said it, you might have a point.

Then leave Del Rosario out. Still a coincidence Angel choose the broke ass taunt? Seems a little out from her usual bag of taunts, seems specifically targeted.

 

[Amb3096]

You think it's coincidence that Angel, from the school Del Rosario ended up at, used our lack of NIL as her parting taunt? That sealed it for me, ironically. Plus I now know for sure Earl knows what he's talking about, and Deer Park and MTSUraider always have. All have said the same thing.

I think a lot is being made about the taunt. It doesn't even have to be about what LSU offered to provide incentive to Angel. She is swimming in money because of the NC and her overexposure. Without those two things, I doubt she would have said anything about money. Also, ADR has been mostly a project this year and can't imagine she was worth the money. There are alot of rumors going on...like the one where LSU supposedly offered Joyce Edwards crazy amounts to sign with them (she didn't). As for Earl, Deer Park and Raider, I have respected their knowledge and closeness to the program, but I have also never seen them criticize the program even during the Holly years. They aren't coming on to a LV fansite to speak negatively of the program, so take that for what it is.

 

[Voltopia]

This game will probably make or break Tennessee's tournament hopes, unless they go crazy in the SECT.

The one absolutely true thing to come out of that game and this thread. 17 wins will be leaving it in the committee's hands to justify keeping them. The ol' "oh let's leave them in anyway" is going to run dry sooner or later.

The hardest part is not even knowing if they should have a case. The schedule's been tough, but does that alone make a case to include them? There's not much that stands out about this team's season aside from the story of Jackson's injury and subsequent return.

 

[Majors]

Then leave Del Rosario out. Still a coincidence Angel choose the broke ass taunt?

Whatever it was, I hope it helps the cause of overlooking the inability of the staff for those looking to place blame elsewhere.

 

[Amb3096]

The one absolutely true thing to come out of that game and this thread. 17 wins will be leaving it in the committee's hands to justify keeping them.

The hardest part is not even knowing if they should have a case. The schedule's been tough, but there's not much that stands out about this team's season aside from the story of Jackson's injury and subsequent return.

That's why losing the LSU game was a big missed opportunity. Their best wins were against Oklahoma (who also lost to WVU, UNLV, UNC, and Southern in addition to ranked losses to Princeton, KSU) and MSST (with unranked losses to Miami, Chattanooga, Vandy, UF, Ole Miss, Alabama and freakin' Kentucky!). There are a lot of other teams hovering around the bubble that can point to signature wins (Washington over Ore State, MSST and Auburn over LSU, Iowa St. and Kansas over KSU). I don't think they have a particularly strong case other than no one else is stepping up. But a lot of bubble teams have stepped up this past week, so it's getting a bit uncomfortable right now.

 

[djtee]

Finally got around to watching the game. Even though neither team could shoot, they weren't just throwing the ball away either. Overall, it was pretty bad on both ends. So many missed layups, and I don't think that team defense even factored into it. Everyone pretty much neutralized each other out with mediocre-to-terrible play, except the PG spot where HVL outplayed Powell by a mile. Seems the trend in games against better teams is to to 1-on-2/3/4/5 and hope for the best. Her shot selection was terrible, and she didn't pressure HVL on the other end to make up for it. This is probably the only P5 game LSU has had this year where HVL didn't have a single turnover.

Kellie needs to get in JP's ear about playing "hero ball" in preparation for the TAMU game. They continue to look awful without Rogers, but HVL hasn't looked particularly good this season until yesterday, so they're probably due. This game will probably make or break Tennessee's tournament hopes, unless they go crazy in the SECT.

That's what i said Kellie should have ripped Powell during some of the timeouts. We all saw what dawn did to Raven and Kitts about there poor play.

 

[Amb3096]

Before the latest ruling the other day weren't Brooks and Chastain too young to get NIL offers? It's all confusing.

Apparently for a few very young players, the LV brand holds alot of allure. I thinks that's the case for Brooks and Chastain. Brooks in particular seems a true believer. I'm trying not to remember that the last youngster who decided early she wanted to be an LVFL was Justine Pissot.

I would think if it's a new ruling/development for HS students, then that would have been true for Shade and del Rosario as well. I agree that the LV brand still holds some recruiting value, but so does playing for Geno or Kim...both of which I'd say offer even more allure. So why is it such a foreign concept that ADR wanted to play for Kim or Shade wanted to play for Geno? Those are more plausible IMO than being swayed by the Tennessee (now reaching "ancient") history as a legendary program?

Pissott just came in at a bad time and didn't distinguish herself early on enough to displace any of the players above her in seniority. It's probably more common now than it was before with freshman expecting to play a lot their first year, whether they are ready or not.

 

[glv98]

would think if it's a new ruling/development for HS students, then that would have been true for Shade and del Rosario as well

I think they could always offer $ once the recruit was old enough to actually sign. Until recently, I don't think you could reach down to the 14 and 15 yr olds. I think that's what's changed.

 

[Amb3096]

I think they could always offer $ once the recruit was old enough to actually sign. Until recently, I don't think you could reach down to the 14 and 15 yr olds. I think that's what's changed.

But players who are 14 and 15 could never (and still can't) sign to my knowledge. They could verbally commit, but that was not binding until they signed their NIL. Boyd, for example, signed her NIL after ADR/Shade did. Brooks and Chastain still haven't, so they are still free to re-open their commitment and go find a higher bidder...unless you are saying that they aren't being motivated by money.

 

[glv98]

But players who are 14 and 15 could never (and still can't) sign to my knowledge. They could verbally commit, but that was not binding until they signed their NIL. Boyd, for example, signed her NIL after ADR/Shade did. Brooks and Chastain still haven't, so they are still free to re-open their commitment and go find a higher bidder...unless you are saying that they aren't being motivated by money.

Agree, Brooks and Chastain could only verbally commit and could not be given NIL $ info. So yeah, their non binding committments were not money driven at the time. But my understanding is the latest ruling means you can now talk NIL with nursery school standouts. So yes, now the young uns can reopen for NIL $ if they want to.

 

[Amb3096]

I'm saying Brooks and Chastain could never and still can't sign, only verbally commit and could not be given NIL info. So yeah, their non binding committments were not money driven. But my understanding is the latest ruling means you can talk NIL with nursery school standouts now. So yes, now the young uns can reopen for NIL if they want to.

Ok, I think I got it. Are schools legally allowed then to discuss NIL opportunities prior to the student signing the NIL? If so, then the case for NIL impeding LV recruiting would be whether or not they elect to uphold their verbals, or if they re-open their commitment to maximize their payday.

 

[37620VOL]

For reference:

In SC game, Powell made 4-17. Against Vanderbilt, 3-4. Against LSU, 3-17.

She could have passed to other players.

She had 7 assists, that might be a season high

 

[glv98]

Ok, I think I got it. Are schools legally allowed then to discuss NIL opportunities prior to the student signing the NIL? If so, then the case for NIL impeding LV recruiting would be whether or not they elect to uphold their verbals, or if they re-open their commitment to maximize their payday.

NIL and NIL$ is confusing. Could be wrong, but my understanding is the latest ruling means you can't withhold NIL$ earning info from any prospect at any time. Before I think you had to wait until they were old enough to sign to talk NIL offers.

Right now, the general legal construct is nothing that could impede athlete's earnings at any time is allowed. Classic case of the corrective pendulum swinging way too far.

 

[creekdipper]

She had 7 assists, that might be a season high

Fair point, and as someone who criticized JP a lot yesterday (and let Jewel off the hook), she had some good moments, too. But I think the poster's point was that JP continued to force up shots despite being cold instead of trying to find open teammates or create open looks for them by penetrating and drawing help. And there were other issues with passing and defense.

Ultimately, though, Kellie has to shoulder the bulk of the blame. When players aren't moving or setting (or using) effective screens or ball fakes/sidesteps to create open looks or miscommunicate or don't rotate or box out or run effective in-bounds plays or any number of other reoccurring problems, that: as on the coaching. Timeouts aren't just for end-of-game scenarios. They can be used to settle the team (or key player) who is staying from the game plan or getting rattled. Also can slow the other team's momentum and get your team refocused.

Kellie and staff had to see that JP was struggling; they didn't do her or the team any favors by allowing it to go on without doing something (timeout first then sub if necessary).

 

[Rooster1]

Not to crow (isn't that what Roosters do?) but I did post this last week in the LV news thread in reference to the then upcoming game vs. LSU:

" Having a fresh defender on HVL whenever she is handling the ball will be key as well, she breaks down under tight pressure. She can hurt you if left open to take 3’s so even when she is off ball you can’t sag off of her. Wynn should be useful in helping to keep a fresh cover defender on her."

 

[creekdipper]

Well, hindsight is 20/20, but in this case, your post was prescient.

 

[Woodrow Call]

Angel Reese is trash.

 

[Volfan2012]

I would think if it's a new ruling/development for HS students, then that would have been true for Shade and del Rosario as well. I agree that the LV brand still holds some recruiting value, but so does playing for Geno or Kim...both of which I'd say offer even more allure. So why is it such a foreign concept that ADR wanted to play for Kim or Shade wanted to play for Geno? Those are more plausible IMO than being swayed by the Tennessee (now reaching "ancient") history as a legendary program?

Pissott just came in at a bad time and didn't distinguish herself early on enough to displace any of the players above her in seniority. It's probably more common now than it was before with freshman expecting to play a lot their first year, whether they are ready or not.

Actually wasn't a rule Tennessee took the NCAA to court about their collective not being able to offer NIL deals to high school athletes and they won. So the NCAA NIL rules are invaild in Tennessee and Virginia who also joined with Tennessee in the case. So now collectives in Tennessee can now deal directly with high school athletes about NIL deals and so can Virginia college collectives. Everywhere else would go by whatever their state laws are I guess. So to sum it all up the NCAA has no power over NIL on any level in the state of Tennessee or Virginia.

 

[Volfan2012]

I would think if it's a new ruling/development for HS students, then that would have been true for Shade and del Rosario as well. I agree that the LV brand still holds some recruiting value, but so does playing for Geno or Kim...both of which I'd say offer even more allure. So why is it such a foreign concept that ADR wanted to play for Kim or Shade wanted to play for Geno? Those are more plausible IMO than being swayed by the Tennessee (now reaching "ancient") history as a legendary program?

Pissott just came in at a bad time and didn't distinguish herself early on enough to displace any of the players above her in seniority. It's probably more common now than it was before with freshman expecting to play a lot their first year, whether they are ready or not.

It wasn't in effect until a week ago. That is why I keep saying we'll find out if Kellie was the problem or NIL laws were the problem. Or NIL money. I know we had 8 million for a Quarterback.

 

[glv98]

(timeout first then sub if necessary).

She used a couple of t.o.s but I think she is absolutely paralyzed w fear she's going to need one late in game and not have one. Esp w the ability to advance the ball after t.o.s, they can be golden. But also useless if the game has gotten out of hand.

In general, obviously, KJH is timeout averse, as is Rick Barnes.

 

[Volfan2012]

She used a couple of t.o.s but I think she is absolutely paralyzed w fear she's going to need one late in game and not have one. Esp w the ability to advance the ball after t.o.s, they can be golden. But also useless if the game has gotten out of hand.

In general, obviously, KJH is timeout averse, as is Rick Barnes.

The Ohio State guy uses all of his and really needs more. You get a four point run on him or make a minimal mistake and he calls one.