Game Thread: (5/6) Lady Vols 63 - (13/13) Georgia 55

[glv98]

Georgia coach said this

Classy. Good for her. I want to like her.

That Key and Horston would be much improved as juniors because that is what usually happens with most players.

Not around here, not for a decade or so. Player development, which appears to be ongoing, is the biggest element in the LV turnaround IMO. And a huge boost to recruiting. Knoxville is no longer the place careers go to die.

Just as important is the incredible mental toughness, sucking it up in the face of any and all adversity. Incredible poise and calm, also MIA for a decade, have been so restorative. Now if I as a fan can just learn some of those positive attributes and quit having "here we go again" attacks we'll be good to go!

This has all happened so fast, didn't expect all the good stuff to happen all at once. I kinda feel like the dog that caught the car!

 

[Volfan2012]

Classy. Good for her. I want to like her.

Not around here, not for a decade or so. Player development, which appears to be ongoing, is the biggest element in the LV turnaround IMO. And a huge boost to recruiting. Knoxville is no longer the place careers go to die.

Just as important is the incredible mental toughness, sucking it up in the face of any and all adversity. Incredible poise and calm, also MIA for a decade, have been so restorative. Now if I as a fan can just learn some of those positive attributes and quit having "here we go again" attacks we'll be good to go!

This has all happened so fast, didn't expect all the good stuff to happen all at once. I kinda feel like the dog that caught the car!

You wonder how great past players would've been if we'd had this coach instead of the last one. I know most of them that made the WNBA got a lot better there than they ever were here.

 

[creekdipper]

Showing some love for Brooklynn. Her pesky defense, active hands, and confident ball-handling made a difference. And that three-pointer really helped swing momentum to us. I was really hoping her second three-point attempt would drive in the dagger.

Getting Bobbitt-like vibes from BK. She's a talker, takes good shots (ignoring a few ill-advised layup attempts amidst the trees), and can come up big in the moment.

BK is making the most of her opportunities and has responded spectacularly to hard coaching from Coach Sam. When BK enters the game, I actually look foward to the immediate energy she brings on defense and stabilty on offense.

She, Karoline, Kaiya, and Sara are going to be the strong core for the program after next season, aided by Justine and other future Lady Vols.

 

[VolBall09]

Classy. Good for her. I want to like her.

Not around here, not for a decade or so. Player development, which appears to be ongoing, is the biggest element in the LV turnaround IMO. And a huge boost to recruiting. Knoxville is no longer the place careers go to die.

Just as important is the incredible mental toughness, sucking it up in the face of any and all adversity. Incredible poise and calm, also MIA for a decade, have been so restorative. Now if I as a fan can just learn some of those positive attributes and quit having "here we go again" attacks we'll be good to go!

This has all happened so fast, didn't expect all the good stuff to happen all at once. I kinda feel like the dog that caught the car!

My dog used to chase the squirrels at the house we lived in during college. They would run along the top of the privacy fence and she would chase them back and forth.

One day one of them lost its footing and fell off directly in front of her. He was stunned for a moment but Scout had absolutely NO idea what to do. She was fully overwhelmed at the prospect of ever actually catching one.

 

[VolBall09]

Showing some love for Brooklynn. Her pesky defense, active hands, and confident ball-handling made a difference. And that three-pointer really helped swing momentum to us. I was really hoping her second three-point attempt would drive in the dagger.

Getting Bobbitt-like vibes from BK. She's a talker, takes good shots (ignoring a few ill-advised layup attempts amidst the trees), and can come up big in the moment.

BK is making the most of her opportunities and has responded spectacularly to hard coaching from Coach Sam. When BK enters the game, I actually look foward to the immediate energy she brings on defense and stabilty on offense.

She, Karoline, Kaiya, and Sara are going to be the strong core for the program after next season, aided by Justine and other future Lady Vols.

Love me some BK. She makes an impact in every game with her defense. So proud of her and can’t wait to see her game develop.

That was the biggest shot of her career for certain. We really needed her to shoot it too. Gave us some temporary breathing room in a moment we truly needed it. They were making a little push for the lead and that kept them at bay.

 

[Volfan2012]

“We stopped complaining,” Horston said. “We stopped letting the refs get in our heads because we were mad about some stuff. We can’t play like that. We were playing frustrated. I feel like we started playing tough and playing through stuff, crashing to the floors and playing like we usually play.”

I wish I could do this when I watch a game the Refs get in my head way to easy with some them calls.

 

[glv98]

You wonder how great past payers would've been if we'd had this coach instead of the last one. I know most of them that made the WNBA got a lot better there than they ever were here.

And how many didn't get a chance at the W or even a decent career. The wasted careers are the worst part of the Lost Years, even worse than all the "firsts" and fallen previous records. Can't get any of that back.

Interesting to me that players like Mercedes Russell, woefully wasted at UT, stand by Holly steadfastly. They really loved her. So did we, but player development and management were just beyond her.

I've always said it's key to KJH recruiting future that Jordan Horston not join the sad parade of wasted careers. And thankfully, it appears that will not happen.

 

[VolBall09]

You wonder how great past payers would've been if we'd had this coach instead of the last one. I know most of them that made the WNBA got a lot better there than they ever were here.

Russell is a player I think about often. She was such a good Lady Vol but she could have been so much more based on what we have seen in the W.

I love the staff we have right now. I hope we have this group for a number of years. They seem to really have the same vision and each brings something to the table. Coach Joy and Coach Sam have obviously made an impact with the players. Not easy to develop relationships that quickly.

 

[VolBall09]

Same with Nared actually. She’s a player I think Kellie could have made a super All-American with her versatility. Her shooting never improved because she never learned where to get better shots in an offense. She always had to try to create her own, tough shots.

Had Jamie had this coaching staff I think she would likely still be in the WNBA.

She should have been more of a Snoop type player hammering the glass. Instead she was trying to handle the ball all the time.

 

[glv98]

“We stopped complaining,” Horston said. “We stopped letting the refs get in our heads because we were mad about some stuff. We can’t play like that. We were playing frustrated. I feel like we started playing tough and playing through stuff, crashing to the floors and playing like we usually play.”

I wish I could do this when I watch a game the Refs get in my head way to easy with some them calls.

Of all the wonderful things JH did yesterday, those 3 words "we stopped complaining" made me by far the happiest. Somewhere Pat is grinning broadly. Mental toughness PS favorite thing, out the wazoo on this team.

In fact, the whole JH presser made me ridiculously happy. The growth and maturity of this player (FINALLY!) is so rewarding to watch. I've never doubted her "want to" and now obviously she's getting the coaching and handling she needs and responding beautifully. Her previous struggles w shooting (still some work to do there) and ballhandling have made her so much better in other areas, especially defense and rebounding. Because she was willing to play thru the tough areas and concentrate on other aspects she is now a stat stuffer extraordinaire.

One more completely shallow thing about JH, and my daughter actually noticed this, she has a flawless, beautiful complexion. Maybe her NIL could be skin care products.

Agree completely, its a good thing the team stopped complaining bc I sure can't. I'm usually one who doesn't like ref whinning but sh*t is getting just ridiculous. Two that got me off the couch were the ridiculous call on Key when Morrison caught her w her head turned and slid under her for an epic flop, then the travel call on Puckett after she made a great move.

I'm sure refs are reviewed by the SEC office (aren't they?) and I'm sure they're don't really want to influence the outcome. But can't they get alot better? Were they always this bad back in the day? I don't remember that.

 

[glv98]

Same with Nared actually. She’s a player I think Kellie could have made a super All-American with her versatility. Her shooting never improved because she never learned where to get better shots in an offense. She always had to try to create her own, tough shots.

Had Jamie had this coaching staff I think she would likely still be in the WNBA.

She should have been more of a Snoop type player hammering the glass. Instead she was trying to handle the ball all the time.

Yep, that's why I named the metaphorical Jamie Nared Trail of Tears after her. Unfortunately many players of her era walked down that sad path of underdevelopment. Growing players, espec highly rated recruits, is one of hardest parts of coaching and CHW just didn't have it, at all. I wonder if its bc overall she just seemed not to have buy in or control over individual players in any area.

 

[th2421]

I've always said it's key to KJH recruiting future that Jordan Horston not join the sad parade of wasted careers. And thankfully, it appears that will not happen.

I'm so impressed by what the staff has done to develop Horston. Things really seem to be clicking for her now - 19 points, 11 boards, 5 blocks, 4 assists, 3 steals, and only 2 turnovers yesterday. In SEC games, she's averaging 16 points, 10.3 boards, 4.2 assists, 3 turnovers, 2 blocks, and 1.7 steals, and her 3 point percentage is up to 36% (compared to 24% on the season). Horston is 3rd in the SEC and 13th in the entire NCAA in defensive rebounds per game...! As much as we talk about Tamari's defensive value to the team, Horston's defensive rating (per Her Hoop Stats) is actually 11th in the NCAA (compared to 14th for Key).

 

[87&91ALUM]

We can all help. Fans support the team. Everybody just take a breath and let the officiating go. Understand the difference between arenas and fans. Remember this is a game/sport and these players are still in their teens and early twenties. And with that, Go Vols. I get caught up in the mistakes so apologize and will try to do better.

 

[VA_VOLFAN]

I'm so impressed by what the staff has done to develop Horston. Things really seem to be clicking for her now - 19 points, 11 boards, 5 blocks, 4 assists, 3 steals, and only 2 turnovers yesterday. In SEC games, she's averaging 16 points, 10.3 boards, 4.2 assists, 3 turnovers, 2 blocks, and 1.7 steals, and her 3 point percentage is up to 36% (compared to 24% on the season). Horston is 3rd in the SEC and 13th in the entire NCAA in defensive rebounds per game...! As much as we talk about Tamari's defensive value to the team, Horston's defensive rating (per Her Hoop Stats) is actually 11th in the NCAA (compared to 14th for Key).

we could also say that Key has allowed Horston to play more aggressive and freely because she gets in passing lanes and gets up on her players because if she gets beat TK is usually back there and waiting.

 

[Volfan2012]

we could also say that Key has allowed Horston to play more aggressive and freely because she gets in passing lanes and gets up on her players because if she gets beat TK is usually back there and waiting.

100 percent

 

[dapeak]

You wonder how great past players would've been if we'd had this coach instead of the last one. I know most of them that made the WNBA got a lot better there than they ever were here.

Who still did well but could’ve been a star in college:
Mercedes Russell
Isabelle Harrison
Bashaara Graves
Cierra Burdick
Jamie Nared

Who would’ve had a chance at some form of a professional career:
Andraya Carter
Nia Moore
Jasmine Jones
Taber Spani
Meighan Simmons
Jordan Reynolds
Kamiko Williams
Kourtney Dunbar
Alexa Middleton
Meme Jackson

Sucks to think so much talent walked on the court and didn’t walk away with the experience they were expecting.

 

[Volfan2012]

Who still did well but could’ve been a star in college:
Mercedes Russell
Isabelle Harrison
Bashaara Graves
Cierra Burdick
Jamie Nared

Who would’ve had a chance at some form of a professional career:
Andraya Carter
Nia Moore
Jasmine Jones
Taber Spani
Meighan Simmons
Jordan Reynolds
Kamiko Williams
Kourtney Dunbar
Alexa Middleton
Meme Jackson

Sucks to think so much talent walked on the court and didn’t walk away with the experience they were expecting.

Graves seemed better to me as a freshman than after she had been here a while. They seemed to change her game and she didn't play as well. Harrison was very good here think she worked a lot on her own with Stokes in the gym other than just regular practice. Nared never accepted the team concept in Holly's offense she was always trying to do to much.

The only ones that possibly could've had a professional career out of that bunch would be Simmons and possibly Jones. Jones to many head injuries never got to play enough think she gave up basketball on her own. Think Spani would've definitely been better than how she turned out.

 

[dapeak]

Graves seemed better to me as a freshman than after she had been here a while. They seemed to change her game and she didn't play as well. Harrison was very good here think she worked a lot on her own with Stokes in the gym other than just regular practice. Nared never accepted the team concept in Holly's offense she was always trying to do to much.

The only ones that possibly could've had a professional career out of that bunch would be Simmons and possibly Jones. Jones to many head injuries never got to play enough think she gave up basketball on her own. Think Spani would've definitely been better than how she turned out.

Harrison definitely improved a ton but like u says I think the stokes relationship had more to do with that than coaching. Jamie had the ability to be better, she was versatile on offense and defense just wasn’t coached UP. Graves could’ve been great. All of these players had skill and no coaching.

 

[Amb3096]

How good of a 2nd half team has Tennessee been this season? They've been under the gun in the 2nd half in pretty much all of their games against the better teams this season, and they really pour it on in the 4th quarter. The defense they played in the last 10 min yesterday was just suffocating. Georgia is a pretty solid team, too. Other than SC and maybe LSU, I don't see any other legit opponents for them with the way they are just smothering their opponents.

I think we will all finally be able to get the bad taste of the Holly Years out of our mouths. This is a legit Final Four-bound team.

 

[Amb3096]

Who still did well but could’ve been a star in college:
Mercedes Russell
Isabelle Harrison
Bashaara Graves
Cierra Burdick
Jamie Nared

Who would’ve had a chance at some form of a professional career:
Andraya Carter
Nia Moore
Jasmine Jones
Taber Spani
Meighan Simmons
Jordan Reynolds
Kamiko Williams
Kourtney Dunbar
Alexa Middleton
Meme Jackson

Sucks to think so much talent walked on the court and didn’t walk away with the experience they were expecting.

Nared - Wasn't ever good enough. She never could learn to shoot consistently
Burdick and Graves -Nice all around players and I think that they maxed out their abilities in college by their senior years. Burdick got some consistency and Graves added some range. Neither of them IMO were the kind of players that you could've built a team around.
Harrison - Solid player by her junior/senior year. She would have been an AA if she didn't get injured.
Russell - Should have been a star. Can blame this on coaching.

Pro potential:
YES
Williams - She did have a few years as a pro, and probably would have done better if she hadn't been injured
Simmons - Should have, but her bball IQ was too low. Can blame this on coaching.
Reynolds - Iffy on this one. Had the pro body and above average athleticism. Probably never reached her ceiling because of coaching
Massengale (added) - Should have been a serviceable pro, at the minimum a solid backup PG. Can blame this on coaching

NO
Carter - Athletic, but never a particularly good college player. Also injury ridden.
Spani - Probably not athletic enough, plus injury ridden
Middleton - Decent skills, not enough athleticism for the next level
Jones - Never able to reach her potential because of injuries. Data inconclusive
Jackson/Moore/Dunbar - Games too limited, didn't seem to have a very high ceiling to begin with

 

[Amb3096]

Another myth that arose this summer was that this team would not be as good as last season because we lost Rennia Davis and wouldn't be able to replace what she brought to the team. I said this would be a better team because of the addition of Dye and the incoming freshman class. That Key and Horston would be much improved as juniors because that is what usually happens with most players. I think this has proven to be true regardless of what happens from here to the end of this season. You need talent but years in a system and the system your in are huge factors as well.

I think it's the addition of Dye and also the return of Green. They both add experience, toughness and depth. Dye at the 4 is a much better fit for Tennessee than KK because she's much more mobile and explosive. Green allows the post game to not completely fall apart when Key is out of the game.

However, the biggest thing with this team is how much better they are playing as a collective unit instead of a player-by-player evaluation. That's the biggest difference between this year and previous seasons (both under KJH and HW)

 

[J-Dog 1313]

Graves seemed better to me as a freshman than after she had been here a while. They seemed to change her game and she didn't play as well. Harrison was very good here think she worked a lot on her own with Stokes in the gym other than just regular practice. Nared never accepted the team concept in Holly's offense she was always trying to do to much.

The only ones that possibly could've had a professional career out of that bunch would be Simmons and possibly Jones. Jones to many head injuries never got to play enough think she gave up basketball on her own. Think Spani would've definitely been better than how she turned out.

As to Bashaara, we need to remember that she scored over 1500 points and pulled down over 1040 rebounds. Only a handful of LVs can claim the accomplishment of scoring over1500 points and snagging over1000 rebounds. So I think it is a little misleading to say that Bashaara "didn't play well" after her freshman year. She played quite well, in my opinion.

 

[Amb3096]

As to Bashaara, we need to remember that she scored over 1500 points and pulled down over 1040 rebounds. Only a handful of LVs can claim the accomplishment of scoring over1500 points and snagging over1000 rebounds. So I think it is a little misleading to say that Bashaara "didn't play well" after her freshman year. She played quite well, in my opinion.

Graves...one of my favorite LVs ever. Strong, tough as nails and had a nose for the ball even if she had virtually no lift when shooting or going after rebounds. She did her job, but she had a fairly low ceiling and came into college near the top of it. Didn't matter who the coach was...she was never going to have a starring WNBA role because she was never going to overcome her physical limitations to be good enough to play there.

 

[dapeak]

Nared - Wasn't ever good enough. She never could learn to shoot consistently
Burdick and Graves -Nice all around players and I think that they maxed out their abilities in college by their senior years. Burdick got some consistency and Graves added some range. Neither of them IMO were the kind of players that you could've built a team around.
Harrison - Solid player by her junior/senior year. She would have been an AA if she didn't get injured.
Russell - Should have been a star. Can blame this on coaching.

Pro potential:
YES
Williams - She did have a few years as a pro, and probably would have done better if she hadn't been injured
Simmons - Should have, but her bball IQ was too low. Can blame this on coaching.
Reynolds - Iffy on this one. Had the pro body and above average athleticism. Probably never reached her ceiling because of coaching
Massengale (added) - Should have been a serviceable pro, at the minimum a solid backup PG. Can blame this on coaching

NO
Carter - Athletic, but never a particularly good college player. Also injury ridden.
Spani - Probably not athletic enough, plus injury ridden
Middleton - Decent skills, not enough athleticism for the next level
Jones - Never able to reach her potential because of injuries. Data inconclusive
Jackson/Moore/Dunbar - Games too limited, didn't seem to have a very high ceiling to begin with

I will agree to completely disagree with most all of your assessment regarding these players.

 

[LadyVol1908]

Nared - Wasn't ever good enough. She never could learn to shoot consistently
Burdick and Graves -Nice all around players and I think that they maxed out their abilities in college by their senior years. Burdick got some consistency and Graves added some range. Neither of them IMO were the kind of players that you could've built a team around.
Harrison - Solid player by her junior/senior year. She would have been an AA if she didn't get injured.
Russell - Should have been a star. Can blame this on coaching.

Pro potential:
YES
Williams - She did have a few years as a pro, and probably would have done better if she hadn't been injured
Simmons - Should have, but her bball IQ was too low. Can blame this on coaching.
Reynolds - Iffy on this one. Had the pro body and above average athleticism. Probably never reached her ceiling because of coaching
Massengale (added) - Should have been a serviceable pro, at the minimum a solid backup PG. Can blame this on coaching

NO
Carter - Athletic, but never a particularly good college player. Also injury ridden.
Spani - Probably not athletic enough, plus injury ridden
Middleton - Decent skills, not enough athleticism for the next level
Jones - Never able to reach her potential because of injuries. Data inconclusive
Jackson/Moore/Dunbar - Games too limited, didn't seem to have a very high ceiling to begin with

ALL of this! Spot on!