Girl Pressures Boyfriend into Suicide

#52
#52
What she did is tantamount to her getting pregnant, raising that child, then providing alcohol and/or encouragement to someone (her child; child's friend/boyfriend/girlfriend; some random stranger, etc.) to result in a drunk driving accident that resulted in her child's death.............all so she could establish a local MADD chapter.
 
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#54
#54
Thunder Good-Oil said:
How is this different from encouraging a partner to commit suicide when afflicted with ALS? She wasn't of legal age for one thing.
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I don't know of any case of someone encouraging a partner to commit suicide when afflicted with ALS that involved continual mocking, inferring they are being a chicken, etc.

Did you read the texts? This is not "I support your decision" it is "quit being a pansy and off yourself already" and "you're all talk, do it or quit talking about it"
 
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#55
#55
Regulator said:
What she did is tantamount to her getting pregnant, raising that child, then providing alcohol and/or encouragement to someone (her child; child's friend/boyfriend/girlfriend; some random stranger, etc.) to result in a drunk driving accident that resulted in her child's death.............all so she could establish a local MADD chapter.
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The advocate stuff is probably BS that she has created to deflect after she realized that she was in trouble. It's doubtful that becoming a mental health advocate was anything other than zero motivation for her.
 
#56
#56
Thunder Good-Oil said:
The advocate stuff is probably BS that she has created to deflect after she realized that she was in trouble. It's doubtful that becoming a mental health advocate was anything other than zero motivation for her.
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You are asking us not to draw conclusions about her motivations yet you are drawing conclusions about her motivations.
 
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#57
#57
Being charged as a juvenile, I'd bet that any sentence is minimal... but the liability case her parents could face.....
 
#59
#59
Thunder Good-Oil said:
Where did I mention that what she did was acceptable behavior? I'm saying that IMO it was probably NOT a crime. That is why there is a published story. She is defending herself before a judge, not her parents.
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Im saying her behavior is indefensible as a human being. What some court rules is just what one court rules. You want to go out of you way to say "we dont know the whole story" or "the texts are not in context."

BS. This is downright disgusting.
 
#60
#60
Thunder Good-Oil said:
You shouldn't. But if you do, is it against the law? Charlie Manson's words and manipulation earned him a life sentence, but it's possible that in her mind she's a Juliet instead of a Charlie.
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As a matter of fact, yes, it is against the law.
 
#61
#61
volinbham said:
I don't know of any case of someone encouraging a partner to commit suicide when afflicted with ALS that involved continual mocking, inferring they are being a chicken, etc.

Did you read the texts? This is not "I support your decision" it is "quit being a pansy and off yourself already" and "you're all talk, do it or quit talking about it"
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I don't speak teenager... I can't say that I can interpret the tone. We don't know her intent or motivation. What is missing though is the dialogue preceding those texted comments. Those are are few that have been selected from thousands of messages. Those two comments could have very well been pulled from an angry fight over something totally unrelated. Even if time stamps indicate that they transmitted immediately prior to his death, again what is her motivation? Is she being a narcissist or was she honestly thinking that he is in so much pain that she wants him to find relief, even to the extent of making evil sounding comments to push him in that direction. I would not want her around children of my own, but did she commit a crime? If she's convicted I would expect that there will be appeals to higher courts. Is this different from Judas Priest since her message was directed at an individual rather than broadcast to a fan base?
 
#62
#62
volinbham said:
You are asking us not to draw conclusions about her motivations yet you are drawing conclusions about her motivations.
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I'm replying to a theoretical conclusion or comparison with an alternate theory (killing your kid in order to promote MADD).I'm not seeing all the facts here... just what the newspaper has selected to present and I have ideas at what might have been omitted or skewed in the interest of garnering interest from readers.
 
#63
#63
Thunder Good-Oil said:
I don't speak teenager... I can't say that I can interpret the tone. We don't know her intent or motivation. What is missing though is the dialogue preceding those texted comments. Those are are few that have been selected from thousands of messages. Those two comments could have very well been pulled from an angry fight over something totally unrelated. Even if time stamps indicate that they transmitted immediately prior to his death, again what is her motivation? Is she being a narcissist or was she honestly thinking that he is in so much pain that she wants him to find relief, even to the extent of making evil sounding comments to push him in that direction. I would not want her around children of my own, but did she commit a crime? If she's convicted I would expect that there will be appeals to higher courts. Is this different from Judas Priest since her message was directed at an individual rather than broadcast to a fan base?
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I cannot imagine what texts that would proceed or follow the ones posted that would change the meaning of what was in those specific texts. Can you?

Judas Priest? Seriously. Did they have an ongoing, specific conversation with the fan base or sing a song about suicide.

As AllVol says - a judge will determine crime or no crime. Regardless of the ruling I find her behavior here to be inexcusable.
 
#65
#65
Thunder Good-Oil said:
I'm replying to a theoretical conclusion or comparison with an alternate theory (killing your kid in order to promote MADD).I'm not seeing all the facts here... just what the newspaper has selected to present and I have ideas at what might have been omitted or skewed in the interest of garnering interest from readers.
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You are working hard to take the defense side - did they present all the facts or is it likely that the defense is omitting/skewing. Better yet, do you think the Washington Post is more likely to omit/skew than the defense?

In the end, it's your opinion and you are entitled to it but the "we don't know the whole story" bit goes both ways and the part of the story we do know is indefensible.
 
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#67
#67
allvol123 said:
Im saying her behavior is indefensible as a human being. What some court rules is just what one court rules. You want to go out of you way to say "we dont know the whole story" or "the texts are not in context."

BS. This is downright disgusting.
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She has an attorney that will be defending her legal rights. I'm not arguing her contributions to humanity one way or the other or defending her there. And no I'm not going out of my way to say that we only know the edited version of the story.
 
#68
#68
volinbham said:
You are working hard to take the defense side - did they present all the facts or is it likely that the defense is omitting/skewing. Better yet, do you think the Washington Post is more likely to omit/skew than the defense?

In the end, it's your opinion and you are entitled to it but the "we don't know the whole story" bit goes both ways and the part of the story we do know is indefensible.
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A burden of proving innocence is not on the defense. So yes, I will take that side of the legal argument until there is definitive proof to the alternative.
 
#69
#69
Thunder Good-Oil said:
A burden of proving innocence is not on the defense. So yes, I will take that side of the legal argument until there is definitive proof to the alternative.
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I'm not talking about the crime part.

What would you have to see to have an opinion about her behavior?
 
#70
#70
volinbham said:
I'm not talking about the crime part.

What would you have to see to have an opinion about her behavior?
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Seeing the entirety of the messaging conversations, her mental fitness, her emotional maturity, and details of her relationship with the boyfriend for starters. Is she suicidal herself? Is her IQ a few standard deviations below the mean? Is there any history of domestic violence between these two? Based solely on the story, I'd lean towards an opinion of bad behavior. But I understand that it is not an all inclusive presentation of facts and those couple of sentences that I quoted many posts ago have me questioning her motivation. There are quoted texts that sound really bad. But there are also statements in the story suggesting that she really cares for the guy. I'd have a totally different interpretation if she was an ex girlfriend when she sent the texts rather than the current girlfriend.
 
#71
#71
Thunder Good-Oil said:
Seeing the entirety of the messaging conversations, her mental fitness, her emotional maturity, and details of her relationship with the boyfriend for starters. Is she suicidal herself? Is her IQ a few standard deviations below the mean? Is there any history of domestic violence between these two? Based solely on the story, I'd lean towards an opinion of bad behavior. But I understand that it is not an all inclusive presentation of facts and those couple of sentences that I quoted many posts ago have me questioning her motivation. There are quoted texts that sound really bad. But there are also statements in the story suggesting that she really cares for the guy. I'd have a totally different interpretation if she was an ex girlfriend when she sent the texts rather than the current girlfriend.
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So are you okay with murder as long as the murderer has good intentions, because that seems to be the point you're making.
 
#72
#72
Thunder Good-Oil said:
17 year olds are not mental health experts.
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The girl is a crazy, heartless ***** man. If she was so tired of hearing him complain about being depressed all she had to do was stop talking to him. Instead she very aggressively encourages him to commit suicide. She knew what she was doing was wrong because she encouraged him to delete the text messages before killing himself. In no world was she the least bit confused about exactly what she was doing. There are literally no excuses for her behavior and she should be punished heavily for it.
 
#73
#73
jjay2518 said:
So are you okay with murder as long as the murderer has good intentions, because that seems to be the point you're making.
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I think that I've touched on that a few times. A narcissist or a juvenile that cared for the person afflicted with mental health issues that does not understand treatment possibilities. I absolutely have differing opinions of an individual fitting those two profiles. If a narcissist, then my opinion of that person is reflective of practically every poster that is attacking me here. The other profile, while sad and misguided, would cause me to have an opinion of her that is different than pure evil.
 
#74
#74
Coug said:
The girl is a crazy, heartless ***** man. If she was so tired of hearing him complain about being depressed all she had to do was stop talking to him. Instead she very aggressively encourages him to commit suicide. She knew what she was doing was wrong because she encouraged him to delete the text messages before killing himself. In no world was she the least bit confused about exactly what she was doing. There are literally no excuses for her behavior and she should be punished heavily for it.
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Crazy? Yes. I'm not convinced though that her motivation was that she was tired of hearing him complain.
 
#75
#75
Thunder Good-Oil said:
I think that I've touched on that a few times. A narcissist or a juvenile that cared for the person afflicted with mental health issues that does not understand treatment possibilities. I absolutely have differing opinions of an individual fitting those two profiles. If a narcissist, then my opinion of that person is reflective of practically every poster that is attacking me here. The other profile, while sad and misguided, would cause me to have an opinion of her that is different than pure evil.
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Sorry, but being uneducated about treatment options is nowhere close to a reasonable excuse. Even if your second profile is true (which is virtually impossible based on the released texts), what she did is still evil. Her role in this was much too active for it to be written off as based on good intentions

I could more easily get behind your line of thinking if the texts showed that she only understood his decision and wouldn't stop him. That's not what happened though. She incessantly goaded him into it. When someone is depressed they are vulnerable. What she did is no different than pointing a gun at him and pulling the trigger.
 
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