Global Warming

[PowerT83]

Researchers find Greenland ice sheet - 10% of world’s freshwater - has lowered by 20 feet in a month in 1 region

British Rsearch Team Discovers Greenland Ice Caps Are Melting At An Accelerated Rate | World News | Sky News

 

[gsvol]

Researchers find Greenland ice sheet - 10% of world’s freshwater - has lowered by 20 feet in a month in 1 region

British Rsearch Team Discovers Greenland Ice Caps Are Melting At An Accelerated Rate | World News | Sky News

Thanks!!! That's good news. :good!:

Vikings During the Medieval Warm Period - Influence of Dramatic Climate Shifts on European Civilizations: The Rise and Fall of the Vikings and the Little Ice Age

Global Warming - What about Greenland?

The climate at this time was warmer, much warmer than today.

There were no internal combustion engines, no coal fired electric plants, must have been the cow farts!!

Moooooo!

BTW, General Electric spent almost $10,000,000 during the months of April, May and June this year lobbying Washington to pass draconian energy/climate legislation and you will be happy to note should such insanity become the law of the land you will be paying thousands of $$$ more each year in indirect taxes that won't do anything to stop runaway deficit federal spending nor impact Earth's natural climate in an appreciable way but will redirect trillions of $$$ annually out of the economy and into the pockets of certain well positioned corporations, financial institutions and individuals.

 

[gsvol]

Is the cold weather coming? « JoNova

 

[hmanvolfan]

Whatchu talkin' bout Willis?

 

[MG1968]

can't really be called "global warming" since several hundred have died from extreme cold temperatures in Peru.

also, hurricane season is nearly half over and thus far, 2010 has been another yawner.

 

[IPorange]

can't really be called "global warming" since several hundred have died from extreme cold temperatures in Peru.

also, hurricane season is nearly half over and thus far, 2010 has been another yawner.

Ya, just the hottest June globally ever. And during a solar minimum no less. Then there is that heat wave in the Eastern United States. And in Europe. But ya, totally cold in Peru.



GS, a global cooling trend seems unlikely, seeing as how we are going to be building towards a 2014 solar maximum. If you want to hitch your horse to that wagon, go for it. I'm sure you'll find a way to make the numbers work however you want them to.

 

[IPorange]

It's funny, because what we are basically talking about here is, "will it get cooler than record high's?" And then viewing that as evidence AGAINST warming. It's like saying it wasn't a hot day when it finally cools off in the evening. I posted in February when people were ranting about how cold it was in Tennessee that it was related to El Nino, and we would have a wet spring and globally a hot "summer." I've posted before that La Nina would then cool things off. To call it global "cooling" is to insinuate that we are talking about a larger climate scale- when we aren't, we are talking about trends of a few months.

 

[MG1968]

two posts and you didn't mention anthropogenic global warming. that might be a record

 

[gsvol]

Whatchu talkin' bout Willis?

Willis who?

Should I enquire with Alfie?

can't really be called "global warming" since several hundred have died from extreme cold temperatures in Peru.

also, hurricane season is nearly half over and thus far, 2010 has been another yawner.

Record lows set all across Austrailia as well.

More tropical storms coming up from the gulf have a cooling effect also, particularly in the southeastern USA.

The alarmists have more failed predictions than any other group in scientific history except perhaps the flat Earth society.

Ya, just the hottest June globally ever. And during a solar minimum no less. Then there is that heat wave in the Eastern United States. And in Europe. But ya, totally cold in Peru.

Not so, it was considerably warmer during the medieval warm period about 800 years ago.

All part of natural climate cycles.

GS, a global cooling trend seems unlikely, seeing as how we are going to be building towards a 2014 solar maximum. If you want to hitch your horse to that wagon, go for it.

We'll see what kind of winter we have and then compare notes.

In the meantime there isn't sufficient reason to pass draconian oppressive indirect taxes related to CO2 levels nor is there reason for the EPA to tax cow farts or any other of their inane programs based on fear mongering alarmist predictions.

BTW, one of your fellow traveler climate change supporters (skeptical science) argues that solar cycles have a minimal affect on warming and cooling in an effort to try to convince the gullible that it's all about manmade CO2.

I'm sure you'll find a way to make the numbers work however you want them to.

Making numbers work for them is the forte of the UN IPCC and their supporters, not mine.

FWIW, there is a huge problem with surface temperature measuring sites not being consistent and from which some groups compile data without taking that into account at all.

It's funny, because what we are basically talking about here is, "will it get cooler than record high's?" And then viewing that as evidence AGAINST warming. It's like saying it wasn't a hot day when it finally cools off in the evening. I posted in February when people were ranting about how cold it was in Tennessee that it was related to El Nino, and we would have a wet spring and globally a hot "summer." I've posted before that La Nina would then cool things off. To call it global "cooling" is to insinuate that we are talking about a larger climate scale- when we aren't, we are talking about trends of a few months.

Well if you believe (correctly) in the effects of El Nin'o and La Nin'a on short term weather cycles, why do you dispute the prediction posted above, based on that very phenomenon?

 

[IPorange]

Because you are insinuating that global climate will trend downward, when we are talking about a cooling event on the time scale of months to a year. That isn't much of a trend in the scale we usually talk about.

 

[IPorange]

I don't know where this was originally from, but I think we can all agree this is funny:

 

[BeecherVol]

That is pretty good.

 

[gsvol]

Because you are insinuating that global climate will trend downward, when we are talking about a cooling event on the time scale of months to a year. That isn't much of a trend in the scale we usually talk about.

I didn't insinuate anything although Hansen of NASA did imply the hot summer forecast for this summer was because of CO2 and AGW rather than the true cause, El Nino.

I did in no way imply the forecast for a cooler winter went past the current ocean surface temperatures in the Pacific.

It seems to be evident that one can make accurate short term climate forecasts from observation of the el nino, la nina phenomenon.

What hasn't been examined is what is the basic cause of the nino, nina phenomenon. I suggest we might just examine suboceanic techtonic and volcanic activity.

If we are in a sloar minimum it doesn't make sense to have an el nino at the same time.

If CO2 is the overriding factor and is fairly constant, if slightly on the rise, why then do we have the el nino, la nina vairation???

I don't know where this was originally from, but I think we can all agree this is funny:

President Obama begrudgingly conceded Wednesday that BP had cleaned up its mess in the Gulf of Mexico. Democrats were certain they could use this crisis to get a climate change law. Now the only out-of-control gusher they can count on is Al Gore.

 

[DC Vol]

Mars Melt Hints at Solar, Not Human, Cause for Warming, Scientist Says

This is obviously completely false and easily refuted science. Let's also disregard the affect on seasons and temperature ranges the Earth's axis has.

Global warming is obviously taking place... I think the blame for it is completely misplaced.

MINDLESS DRIVEL: PROCEED

 

[IPorange]

Mars Melt Hints at Solar, Not Human, Cause for Warming, Scientist Says

This is obviously completely false and easily refuted science. Let's also disregard the affect on seasons and temperature ranges the Earth's axis has.

Global warming is obviously taking place... I think the blame for it is completely misplaced.

MINDLESS DRIVEL: PROCEED

This has been discussed before. There are other planets in the solar system that are experiencing cooling. The Sun's output is measured and has been tracked over the last few decades. We are now moving out of a solar minimum and into a solar maximum by 2014. Clearly, Mars is having a warming for some other reason, given that information. Yes?

 

[IPorange]

It seems to be evident that one can make accurate short term climate forecasts from observation of the el nino, la nina phenomenon.
yes, but we don't seem to always be able to predict when they will begin with great accuracy
What hasn't been examined is what is the basic cause of the nino, nina phenomenon. I suggest we might just examine suboceanic techtonic and volcanic activity.
While anything is possible, I highly doubt either of those two things factor in, simply because they don't generate the kind of energy it takes to cause such a massive protracted event over that large a body of water.

If we are in a sloar minimum it doesn't make sense to have an el nino at the same time. If CO2 is the overriding factor and is fairly constant, if slightly on the rise, why then do we have the el nino, la nina vairation???
There are great lag times throughout Earth's climate system. We both agree that the principle driver of climate on Earth is the Sun. The longest day of the year in the northern hemisphere, the hemisphere with the most land, is June 21/22. Yet, the hottest days of the summer in many places occur in July and August. Why? Because of complex energy storaging and transferring mechanisms. It is why we don't all freeze to death at night, as well. It's the same way with ocean oscillations. Think of those buckets that have water slowly dripping into them, until the weight is just so that it tips the bucket over and all the weight leaves, causing the bucket to pop back up again to be filled once more. All this complexity is also why a relatively small factor like atmospheric CO2 can be made to have an impact on the overall climate.






of-control gusher they can count on is Al Gore.

See bold.

 

[gsvol]

This has been discussed before. There are other planets in the solar system that are experiencing cooling. The Sun's output is measured and has been tracked over the last few decades. We are now moving out of a solar minimum and into a solar maximum by 2014. Clearly, Mars is having a warming for some other reason, given that information. Yes?

The best theory I've read about Mars is that it lost it's magnetic field and the solar wind blew away it's atmosphere, threfore it went into a super ice age and only the activity of the sun governs it's temperature.

The Earth does also undergo a reversing of it's polarity periodically, over very extended periods and we are in the midst of such a change now.

I think I am correct about that as memory serves.

See bold.

yes, but we don't seem to always be able to predict when they will begin with great accuracy

Duh! And we are reasonably sure they have nothing to do with CO2.

While anything is possible, I highly doubt either of those two things factor in, simply because they don't generate the kind of energy it takes to cause such a massive protracted event over that large a body of water.

Do you have some sort of formula to say how much they do or do not generate. If not, then what does generate such massive protracted events???


There are great lag times throughout Earth's climate system. We both agree that the principle driver of climate on Earth is the Sun. The longest day of the year in the northern hemisphere, the hemisphere with the most land, is June 21/22. Yet, the hottest days of the summer in many places occur in July and August. Why? Because of complex energy storaging and transferring mechanisms. It is why we don't all freeze to death at night, as well. It's the same way with ocean oscillations. Think of those buckets that have water slowly dripping into them, until the weight is just so that it tips the bucket over and all the weight leaves, causing the bucket to pop back up again to be filled once more. All this complexity is also why a relatively small factor like atmospheric CO2 can be made to have an impact on the overall climate.

We agree up to the point where you project CO2 to be such a major impact when it has been proven that CO2 level in the atmosphere is a follower and not a driver of Earth climate throughout history as far back as we know.

In addition to what you posted, how about the record lows in the southern hemisphere this year, does that also play into the equation??[/QUOTE]

See bold.

 

[DinkinFlicka]

It's no secret that humans are a destructive species. Yes, we've inflicted more long term damage to Earth than any other life forms who have inhabited this planet, but I don't think we're going to see the long term effects from these damages for many, many years.

Yes, record high temperatures have been recorded in lots of places in recent years, but record lows have been in great abundance as well. Fluctuations DO happen.

I'm not dismissing GW by a long shot... I just don't believe it's really having too much of an effect RIGHT NOW. So, until the polar ice caps begin melting and Antarctica ceases to exist above sea level... this thread is still moot.

 

[IPorange]

gsvol, we don't even disagree on the role of CO2 during several climate shifts in the past. It was more of a contributor as a "positive feedback", and not the "driver" itself. That just doesn't seem to be the case right now, partly because we are adding CO2 from the lithosphere, where as before it was being "released" through changes in the oceanic carbon sink.

EDIT: Oh, what I was getting at with needing more energy to trigger a El Nino/La Nina type event was the Sun- it's energy being stored within the ocean itself, and circulation reaching a tipping point. Something like that.

The Southern hemisphere had some record low temperatures, in the same way the Northern hemisphere did in some places (such as Tennessee earlier this year). Those are just tiny events, and we are talking about climate. If we wanted to compare apples to apples, you would have to look at all the "record highs" both daily and month-average, and you would see that we are still part of a warming trend.

Of course, that doesn't prove it is anthropogenic. So, is it that you don't believe the Earth is warming (we are talking just + in global temperature, not turning into a global desert), or you don't believe the warming is anthropogenic. I can never tell, because your arguments seem to jump back and forth on those two stances.

 

[gsvol]

It's no secret that humans are a destructive species. Yes, we've inflicted more long term damage to Earth than any other life forms who have inhabited this planet, but I don't think we're going to see the long term effects from these damages for many, many years.

Yes, record high temperatures have been recorded in lots of places in recent years, but record lows have been in great abundance as well. Fluctuations DO happen.

I'm not dismissing GW by a long shot... I just don't believe it's really having too much of an effect RIGHT NOW. So, until the polar ice caps begin melting and Antarctica ceases to exist above sea level... this thread is still moot.

Humans are nowhere near destructive as dinasaurs, see...we're still cleaning up dinasaur crap in the gulf in the way of spilled oil which is just dinasaur crap, where do you think oil comes from?? Matter of fact how long do you think it takes for a dinasaur egg to hatch??

gsvol, we don't even disagree on the role of CO2 during several climate shifts in the past. It was more of a contributor as a "positive feedback", and not the "driver" itself. That just doesn't seem to be the case right now, partly because we are adding CO2 from the lithosphere, where as before it was being "released" through changes in the oceanic carbon sink.

EDIT: Oh, what I was getting at with needing more energy to trigger a El Nino/La Nina type event was the Sun- it's energy being stored within the ocean itself, and circulation reaching a tipping point. Something like that.

The Southern hemisphere had some record low temperatures, in the same way the Northern hemisphere did in some places (such as Tennessee earlier this year). Those are just tiny events, and we are talking about climate. If we wanted to compare apples to apples, you would have to look at all the "record highs" both daily and month-average, and you would see that we are still part of a warming trend.

Of course, that doesn't prove it is anthropogenic. So, is it that you don't believe the Earth is warming (we are talking just + in global temperature, not turning into a global desert), or you don't believe the warming is anthropogenic. I can never tell, because your arguments seem to jump back and forth on those two stances.

A warming trend is a good thing!

Global deserts happen during ice ages.

 

[DinkinFlicka]

Humans are nowhere near destructive as dinasaurs, see...we're still cleaning up dinasaur crap in the gulf in the way of spilled oil which is just dinasaur crap, where do you think oil comes from?? Matter of fact how long do you think it takes for a dinasaur egg to hatch??

Two questions:

1. Is this a serious response?

2. What in the hell is a 'dinasaur?'

 

[VolsNSkinsFan]

and we have our 1st Winter Weather Advisory for the lower 48

MT Weather Alert - weather.com

A WINTER WEATHER ADVISORY FOR SNOW MEANS THAT PERIODS OF SNOW WILL CAUSE PRIMARILY TRAVEL DIFFICULTIES. THOSE PLANNING TO ADVENTURE INTO THE BACK COUNTRY SHOULD BE PREPARED FOR UNSEASONABLY COLD WEATHER AND SNOWFALL.

 

[gsvol]

Two questions:

1. Is this a serious response?

2. What in the hell is a 'dinasaur?'

1. About a serious as I take you.

2. When did you first realize you hate your mother, or have you figured that out yet?

 

[DinkinFlicka]

1. About a serious as I take you.

2. When did you first realize you hate your mother, or have you figured that out yet?

I like the number system... it organizes our incessant bltching to a suitable degree.

1. Who takes anyone seriously on a message board? We are all, by default, fat, unemployed losers in a dark room behind a keyboard with a gallon jug of Sunny D and a box of Twinkies at our sides.

2. I don't hate my mother, but you in all your infinite wisdom can't spell one of the first words we all learned in 2nd grade Science class.

 

[IPorange]

Humans are nowhere near destructive as dinasaurs, see...we're still cleaning up dinasaur crap in the gulf in the way of spilled oil which is just dinasaur crap, where do you think oil comes from?? Matter of fact how long do you think it takes for a dinasaur egg to hatch??







A warming trend is a good thing!

Global deserts happen during ice ages.

But we are already not in an ice age....

Some places do get drier during ice ages, that is true. But then we have desertification going on right now, and we are certainly not in an ice age. Africa has gotten much drier over the current interglacial period.

It's complicated, you know? I certainly don't think we want to get in business of manipulating climate, if we can help it.