Greatest Athlete to never win highest Championship of their Sport

[hatvol96]

Just to add to the analysis.

UT under Fulmer would have ranked #4 on this list using the average winning % from 93-99 (of course we don't know the winning % of other teams but it is likely similar - UT's was 83.5% during that time).

In this chart, UT is 17th (but most have said 13th or 14th based on conference).

If these are bad years under Fulmer, he is still in B+ (percentile) range in his worst years and near A+ (percentile) in his best.

He's in the C range in his own league. Using the Buffalos and the Louisiana Techs to prop up his grade is clever, but disingenuous.

 

[VolinArizona]

Here is 1993-1999, which I think honestly shows that UT's star has fallen a little bit, but not terribly.

----  -----------------------  -------   ----  ----  ----   -----
Rank  Team name                Win-Pct   Won   Lost  Tied   Games
----  -----------------------  -------   ----  ----  ----   -----
  1   Nebraska                 0.91011     81     8     0      89
  2   Florida State            0.90116     77     8     1      86
  3   Tennessee                0.83721     72    14     0      86
  4   Florida                  0.83708     74    14     1      89
  5   Kansas State             0.82941     70    14     1      85
  6   Penn State               0.81395     70    16     0      86
  7   Ohio State               0.78736     68    18     1      87
  8   Virginia Tech            0.76190     64    20     0      84
  9   Michigan                 0.75581     65    21     0      86
  10  Texas A&M                0.75000     64    21     1      86
  11  Wisconsin                0.71765     59    22     4      85
  12  Miami-Florida            0.71084     59    24     0      83
  13  Colorado State           0.69048     58    26     0      84
  14  Brigham Young            0.68182     60    28     0      88
  15  Auburn                   0.67284     54    26     1      81
  16  Syracuse                 0.66867     55    27     1      83
  17  North Carolina           0.66667     56    28     0      84
  18  Texas                    0.66279     56    28     2      86
  19  Notre Dame               0.66071     55    28     1      84
  20  Utah                     0.65854     54    28     0      82

 

[VolinArizona]

He's in the C range in his own league. Using the Buffalos and the Louisiana Techs to prop up his grade is clever, but disingenuous.

Heh? Hasn't UT tried to schedule better opponents than other schools do?

 

[hatvol96]

13th puts us in the top 12%

Only if you include the Sun Belt, C-USA, the MAC, etc. His grade isn't nearly as high if you compare him to peer institutions, i.e. BCS conference schools.

 

[volinbham]

Just presenting facts. Each poster has chosen various time periods for comparison. You chose 7 years - most of those players are not suiting up...

 

[VolinArizona]

Only if you include the Sun Belt, C-USA, the MAC, etc. His grade isn't nearly as high if you compare him to peer institutions, i.e. BCS conference schools.

This is a good point. If we take TCU and the like off the top, we should only compare BCS schools.

 

[hatvol96]

Heh? Hasn't UT tried to schedule better opponents than other schools do?

I'm not talking about games against them. My point is that UT should be compared to other BCS conference schools only. Why should we care if UT has a better winning percentage than Central Michigan or North Texas?

 

[VolinArizona]

I'm not talking about games against them. My point is that UT should be compared to other BCS conference schools only. Why should we care if UT has a better winning percentage than Central Michigan or North Texas?

Doh, I figured it out, I swear.

 

[volinbham]

He's in the C range in his own league. Using the Buffalos and the Louisiana Techs to prop up his grade is clever, but disingenuous.

If National Championships are to be the criteria then the metric of D1 is completely legit. Each of the other programs on the chart participates in the same "league".

 

[hatvol96]

If National Championships are to be the criteria then the metric of D1 is completely legit. Each of the other programs on the chart participates in the same "league".

Sure. I'm positive an undefeated Toledo team can expect to get an invite to the National Championship game. That's asinine.

 

[volinbham]

Sure. I'm positive an undefeated Toledo team can expect to get an invite to the National Championship game. That's asinine.

Of course that's not what I said but anyway...

 

[hatvol96]

TCHFCATUTK has to be the happiest man in the world. Our fan base apparently thinks he deserves credit for having a winning percentage better than teams with 1/30th the football budget we have, who spend their nonconference schedule playing guarantee games to pay the bills. That's job security. Stay ahead of Temple and Idaho and get $2+ mil a year. Amazing. The people now defending Fulmer must have been crestfallen when Jerry Green was let go.

 

[volinbham]

The strawman is always so much easier to argue against

 

[hatvol96]

Of course that's not what I said but anyway...

If you're saying they're part of the metric, that's exactly what you're saying. If they are relevant comparisons for winning percentage purposes, then it stands to reason they're on comparable footing for the National Championship.

 

[volinbham]

TCHFCATUTK has to be the happiest man in the world. Our fan base apparently thinks he deserves credit for having a winning percentage better than teams with 1/30th the football budget we have, who spend their nonconference schedule playing guarantee games to pay the bills. That's job security. Stay ahead of Temple and Idaho and get $2+ mil a year. Amazing. The people now defending Fulmer must have been crestfallen when Jerry Green was let go.

Just curious; did you think Bobby Knight should have be fired at IU?

 

[hatvol96]

Just curious; did you think Bobby Knight should have be fired at IU?

Had they said it was for results, I couldn't have disputed that. For the reasons they gave, no. Knowing a little bit of inside about that situation, Coach Knight should have resigned three seasons earlier. No good ending was going to come of his dealings with Myles Brand.

 

[OWB]

I say Toledo, you say Tolado..

 

[volinbham]

Had they said it was for results, I couldn't have disputed that. For the reasons they gave, no. Knowing a little bit of inside about that situation, Coach Knight should have resigned three seasons earlier. No good ending was going to come of his dealings with Myles Brand.

Given that results are all that matter -- his performance certainly dropped off to Fulmer or sub-Fulmer levels.

 

[hatvol96]

Given that results are all that matter -- his performance certainly dropped off to Fulmer or sub-Fulmer levels.

That's why I said, if they had cited results as the reason, I wouldn't have questioned the decision. However, at no point in the "declining" years did IU finish with a losing record and miss the NCAA tournament.

 

[WA_Vol]

Yup, I was a little disappointed at the ranking, but take out TCU, Toledo, Louisville, and Boise, and we're 13th-ish.

In the real world those teams can go undefeated and knock out a SEC team out of a good bowl bid, circa Utah 2004. Louisville could easily go 10-2 and go to a better bowl then a 9-3 Tennessee team. Thats the system we have to live with.

 

[WA_Vol]

TCHFCATUTK has to be the happiest man in the world. Our fan base apparently thinks he deserves credit for having a winning percentage better than teams with 1/30th the football budget we have, who spend their nonconference schedule playing guarantee games to pay the bills. That's job security. Stay ahead of Temple and Idaho and get $2+ mil a year. Amazing. The people now defending Fulmer must have been crestfallen when Jerry Green was let go.

Fulmer is still only 17th, and 4th in the SEC in those standing behind Ga, LSU, and Auburn.

 

[hatvol96]

Fulmer is still only 17th, and 4th in the SEC in those standing behind Ga, LSU, and Auburn.

Unless the majority of prognosticators are wrong, he'll be behind Florida after this year.

 

[OrangeSquare]

I know you will say that the "downward trend" has happend the last ___ years (using anything less than 8), but that to me isn't fair

Boy, did I call that, or did I call that. (Just wasn't hat that did it.) :banghead:

I'm already in the post, and not gonna go back to see who said it, but whomever said that you feel those three programs had "passed us by" because we couldn't stay on the field with them....... Oregon????!!!! If you honestly think we couldn't "stay on the field" with Oregon, then why in the hell would you even think for a minute that Cal isn't gonna come in and beat Tennessee by 40. I'll expect your written reversal when we defeat Cal, because if we beat them, there is no doubt that we would beat Oregon.

 

[hatvol96]

Boy, did I call that, or did I call that. (Just wasn't hat that did it.) :banghead:

I'm already in the post, and not gonna go back to see who said it, but whomever said that you feel those three programs had "passed us by" because we couldn't stay on the field with them....... Oregon????!!!! If you honestly think we couldn't "stay on the field" with Oregon, then why in the hell would you even think for a minute that Cal isn't gonna come in and beat Tennessee by 40. I'll expect your written reversal when we defeat Cal, because if we beat them, there is no doubt that we would beat Oregon.

The reason he doesn't think Cal will drill UT is probably very simple. He, like me, thinks Cal is wildly overrated and Oregon is better.

 

[OrangeEmpire]

Boy, did I call that, or did I call that. (Just wasn't hat that did it.)

I'm already in the post, and not gonna go back to see who said it, but whomever said that you feel those three programs had "passed us by" because we couldn't stay on the field with them....... Oregon????!!!! If you honestly think we couldn't "stay on the field" with Oregon, then why in the hell would you even think for a minute that Cal isn't gonna come in and beat Tennessee by 40. I'll expect your written reversal when we defeat Cal, because if we beat them, there is no doubt that we would beat Oregon.


The reason he doesn't think Cal will drill UT is probably very simple. He, like me, thinks Cal is wildly overrated and Oregon is better.

FOOD FIGHT!