Greatest Athlete to never win highest Championship of their Sport

#101
#101
this argument is one-sided. I'm die-hard, like most of us on this board...but to say that Tennessee's recent performance is comparable to Oklahoma, Miami, or Ohio St. is ridiculous. I want to see this program performing at Championship level, but we're not doing that right now. I know it's difficult to compete for championships every year, but we haven't been at that level in a while. Eastern division titles are nice (much nicer than 5-6), but we all know that this university and this program are capable of more. I recognize that this is a powerhouse program, and I'm thankful for that...but I can't allow blind loyalty to keep me from recognizing that we've been underperforming since our National Championship season.
 
#102
#102
(therealUT @ Jul 3 said:
True, however, seven seasons is a rather arbitrary number of seasons. Just choosing that number shows that you are only concerned with putting UT's program down, because if you go 8 seasons, then UT has a NC and SEC Championship, if you go 9 seasons its 2 SEC championships.

Haven't checked to see how that compares to Miami, Ohio State, etc. Probably a step below, however, I would agree with a previous poster that over the past 10 seasons the only excellent program has been USC.
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By the measure being used, since everyone wants to drudge up 9 and 10 years ago, USC hasn't been excellent either. They weren't any good under Paul Hackett. I love when people try to cast facts as negative. I'm simply pointing out that UT has gone far longer than a team that fashions itself as an elite program should without a conference title. Exactly how much did the '98 National Championship help the team in the fourth quarter against Alabama, South Carolina, and Vanderbilt last year? If people choose to live in the past and accept Peach Bowl seasons, so be it. I refuse to dumb down my standards.
 
#103
#103
(VOLinSC @ Jul 3 said:
this argument is one-sided. I'm die-hard, like most of us on this board...but to say that Tennessee's recent performance is comparable to Oklahoma, Miami, or Ohio St. is ridiculous. I want to see this program performing at Championship level, but we're not doing that right now. I know it's difficult to compete for championships every year, but we haven't been at that level in a while. Eastern division titles are nice (much nicer than 5-6), but we all know that this university and this program are capable of more. I recognize that this is a powerhouse program, and I'm thankful for that...but I can't allow blind loyalty to keep me from recognizing that we've been underperforming since our National Championship season.
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No one is saying we are competeing at that level right now. What we are saying is that all of the programs mention, save for Miami, have hit similar slumps.

One thing that has been consistent throughout...each school has had a coaching change before things have gotten better.
 
#104
#104
(VOLinSC @ Jul 3 said:
this argument is one-sided. I'm die-hard, like most of us on this board...but to say that Tennessee's recent performance is comparable to Oklahoma, Miami, or Ohio St. is ridiculous. I want to see this program performing at Championship level, but we're not doing that right now. I know it's difficult to compete for championships every year, but we haven't been at that level in a while. Eastern division titles are nice (much nicer than 5-6), but we all know that this university and this program are capable of more. I recognize that this is a powerhouse program, and I'm thankful for that...but I can't allow blind loyalty to keep me from recognizing that we've been underperforming since our National Championship season.
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I couldn't have said it better myself.
 
#105
#105
(orangetd88 @ Jul 3 said:
No one is saying we are competeing at that level right now. What we are saying is that all of the programs mention, save for Miami, have hit similar slumps.

One thing that has been consistent throughout...each school has had a coaching change before things have gotten better.
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Actually, Miami did fall off at the end of Erickson's tenure into the early Butch Davis era.
 
#106
#106
(hatvol96 @ Jul 3 said:
By the measure being used, since everyone wants to drudge up 9 and 10 years ago, USC hasn't been excellent either. They weren't any good under Paul Hackett. I love when people try to cast facts as negative. I'm simply pointing out that UT has gone far longer than a team that fashions itself as an elite program should without a conference title. Exactly how much did the '98 National Championship help the team in the fourth quarter against Alabama, South Carolina, and Vanderbilt last year? If people choose to live in the past and accept Peach Bowl seasons, so be it. I refuse to dumb down my standards.
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How much did OU's National Championship help them last year? Facts can neither be positive or negative, however, they can be used subjectively. In the past 3 years, there has been 1 excellent program, USC.
 
#107
#107
Quote From HAT:
My patience with your silliness is now shot. Oklahoma has consistently, except for the small window I mentioned in the earlier post, been winning conference titles and competing for National Championships. While the "I'm just concerned about eating popcorn, watching the band, and being entertained" crowd, which you are apparently the spokesman for, doesn't grasp that championships are why you keep score, some of us in fact do. Count National and conference championships. Oklahoma dwarfs UT in these accomplishments. When they hit a lull in the late '80s and through the '90s, did they say "Oh well, at least the cheerleaders are pretty, the hot dogs are fresh, and my kids enjoyed the pretty colors at the game?" No, they made heads roll until they got back to their rightful place among the pantheon of college football's elite. Where is Oklahoma's program in comparison to UT's now? History is a convenient foxhole for those who are content with the current state of the program. Wave it proudly. I'm sure you'll be "entertained" this year. Fans like you are why UT deserves nothing more than Peach/Music City Bowl seasons.


So how bad were these programs that caused them to take such an active and noble stance for making changes in their head coaches. In the 14 years of our coach we have several Conference titles several divisional titles, and a NC. In the history of the other schools, yes OK, Neb, Miami have been better, but since we are talking Fulmer's head, what are the comparison's of the other schools during the same time he has been coaching UT. FSU titles?, UF Titles? Ohio State=can't win the big ones. Any NC's for them. One conference title. Mich. don't think so. Penn state, ND, Neb, Texas, LSU, Bama, Auburn, UGA. At worst we've all been fairly equal over that time period. SC has been the only repeat customers. They are the only team in the last 5 years that can be called truly great. Before that, they were also searching. It had been a long time since anyone called them real good. During all that time we remained stagnate, turning in 9-3 and better seasons all but one or so.
 
#108
#108
(therealUT @ Jul 3 said:
How much did OU's National Championship help them last year? Facts can neither be positive or negative, however, they can be used subjectively. In the past 3 years, there has been 1 excellent program, USC.
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They went 8-4, with a victory over a top 10 team in their bowl game. That's a fair piece better than 5-6 with a home field loss to Vanderbilt. Are we down to a three year window now? Even better, where does TCHFCATUTK rank in winning percentage over the last three years?
 
#109
#109
How many schools have 2 10 win season in the last 3 years? Not arguing, just wondering.
 
#110
#110
Interesting that all of the programs previously mentioned are within about 50 wins of each other all-time, save for Miami.
 
#111
#111
(GVF @ Jul 3 said:
Ohio State=can't win the big ones. Any NC's for them. One conference title.
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I don't want to spend time praising the Buckeyes, but I think it's important to point out (again) that they won the national title in 2002. I'd say that qualifies as a "big one"
 
#112
#112
(GVF @ Jul 3 said:
Quote From HAT:
My patience with your silliness is now shot. Oklahoma has consistently, except for the small window I mentioned in the earlier post, been winning conference titles and competing for National Championships. While the "I'm just concerned about eating popcorn, watching the band, and being entertained" crowd, which you are apparently the spokesman for, doesn't grasp that championships are why you keep score, some of us in fact do. Count National and conference championships. Oklahoma dwarfs UT in these accomplishments. When they hit a lull in the late '80s and through the '90s, did they say "Oh well, at least the cheerleaders are pretty, the hot dogs are fresh, and my kids enjoyed the pretty colors at the game?" No, they made heads roll until they got back to their rightful place among the pantheon of college football's elite. Where is Oklahoma's program in comparison to UT's now? History is a convenient foxhole for those who are content with the current state of the program. Wave it proudly. I'm sure you'll be "entertained" this year. Fans like you are why UT deserves nothing more than Peach/Music City Bowl seasons.
So how bad were these programs that caused them to take such an active and noble stance for making changes in their head coaches. In the 14 years of our coach we have several Conference titles several divisional titles, and a NC. In the history of the other schools, yes OK, Neb, Miami have been better, but since we are talking Fulmer's head, what are the comparison's of the other schools during the same time he has been coaching UT. FSU titles?, UF Titles? Ohio State=can't win the big ones. Any NC's for them. One conference title. Mich. don't think so. Penn state, ND, Neb, Texas, LSU, Bama, Auburn, UGA. At worst we've all been fairly equal over that time period. SC has been the only repeat customers. They are the only team in the last 5 years that can be called truly great. Before that, they were also searching. It had been a long time since anyone called them real good. During all that time we remained stagnate, turning in 9-3 and better seasons all but one or so.
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Florida State, Nebraska, and USC have all won multiple National Championships since Fulmer became the head coach at UT. Ohio State, Michigan, Florida, Oklahoma, LSU and Texas have all won National Titles in that period. All but Texas and LSU have more conference titles in that period.
 
#113
#113
(GAVol @ Jul 3 said:
How many schools have 2 10 win season in the last 3 years? Not arguing, just wondering.
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I'd have to look it up. I know OU and SC are on that list. I think LSU is also a member of that club. '03 was a 12 game regular season, so there were probably more teams that won 10 that year than normal. Georgia might have done it also.
 
#114
#114
(therealUT @ Jul 3 said:
How much did OU's National Championship help them last year? Facts can neither be positive or negative, however, they can be used subjectively. In the past 3 years, there has been 1 excellent program, USC.
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Exactly. Statistics is the most obscure and bendable form of measurement within a given time period. The smaller the window used, the more tainted the numbers. A decade of performance is a better indicator than 3-5 years. 5 years may start showing a trend, of which there is a valid concern for UT football. Back up to 10-15 years and we are one of the great consistent programs in the modern era. Enlarge that window out the the JM and BB days when the Bear, Osborne, Switzer and so on were kings of the mountain, and we slip in comaprison again. But, be it orange glasses or not, we've only had one losing season in forever. No cause there to fire someone. By the standards HAT holds for UT athletics, if he loses a case, his only case in the last ten years of his career, then he should be fired, and he should actually suggest it. After all, in the last month, the only case he tried, he lost, so his performance sucks, right. (Just a scenairo for those that think I actually know whether or not he won/lost any cases).
 
#115
#115
(VOLinSC @ Jul 3 said:
I don't want to spend time praising the Buckeyes, but I think it's important to point out (again) that they won the national title in 2002. I'd say that qualifies as a "big one"
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I would have preferred it more if a referee hadn't handed them that one.
 
#117
#117
(GAVol @ Jul 3 said:
I would have preferred it more if a referee hadn't handed them that one.
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The people down here still haven't gotten past that one.
 
#118
#118
(hatvol96 @ Jul 3 said:
The people down here still haven't gotten past that one.
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They shouldn't get past it. It was hands down the worst call in a big moment that I've ever seen.
 
#119
#119
(GVF @ Jul 3 said:
Exactly. Statistics is the most obscure and bendable form of measurement within a given time period. The smaller the window used, the more tainted the numbers. A decade of performance is a better indicator than 3-5 years. 5 years may start showing a trend, of which there is a valid concern for UT football. Back up to 10-15 years and we are one of the great consistent programs in the modern era. Enlarge that window out the the JM and BB days when the Bear, Osborne, Switzer and so on were kings of the mountain, and we slip in comaprison again. But, be it orange glasses or not, we've only had one losing season in forever. No cause there to fire someone. By the standards HAT holds for UT athletics, if he loses a case, his only case in the last ten years of his career, then he should be fired, and he should actually suggest it. After all, in the last month, the only case he tried, he lost, so his performance sucks, right. (Just a scenairo for those that think I actually know whether or not he won/lost any cases).
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No. The proper analogy would be if my work continually trailed off, culminating in a year where I lost more cases than I won. That is the scenario currently playing out at UT.
 
#122
#122
(GAVol @ Jul 3 said:
They shouldn't get past it. It was hands down the worst call in a big moment that I've ever seen.
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The thing, as something of a Miami fan, that enraged me the most about that was how late the flag was thrown.
 
#124
#124
well, this has certainly been a lively discussion......

my two cents, back on topic anyway....

dan marino, Jim kelly, barry bonds, Ken griffey jr, mark martin, karl malone, kevin garnett, john stockton, charles barkley, barry sanders, archie manning, jim brown, fran tarkenton.....to name a few....
 
#125
#125
(jakez4ut @ Jul 3 said:
well, this has certainly been a lively discussion......

my two cents, back on topic anyway....

dan marino, Jim kelly, barry bonds, Ken griffey jr, mark martin, karl malone, kevin garnett, john stockton, charles barkley, barry sanders, archie manning, jim brown, fran tarkenton.....to name a few....
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Again, the Cleveland Browns won the NFL championship in 1964. Jim Brown was on that squad. Hence, he's not eligible for this list.
 
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