Ground zero mosque.

#126
#126
sjt18 said:
I agree that this is a really tough issue. Generally, I think if it is their property and do not directly impose on the rights of their neighbors then it should be allowed.

OTOH, Islam is not a purely religious movement. It is theocratic and doctrinally allows if not demands that violence be used to spread the Islamic state. They have a history of building mosques on sites of battle victories.

I am more concerned about the "sensitivity" of whoever sold them the land to start with. There was a time when an "American" would have said no at any price.
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What makes Iaslm any more "theocratic" than most of the mainstream Christian churches?
 
#129
#129
sjt18 said:
Right, it is an exercise in free commerce and property rights.

To answer the question, yes, communities have zoning laws that "may" prevent some enterprises to include religious establishments from operating. Usually they have to be neutral.

You can't necessarily say that you can't build a church here. You can say that you cannot have an organization that creates a certain amount of traffic flow, noise, etc.
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We have a winner right here. This is the exact reason that certain communities have stopped Wal-Mart from building a new facility on privately owned and properly zoned property.
 
#130
#130
Additionally, in the wake of the backlash, the group responsible for this project have been saying it isn't a mosque but a cultural center.

Ok, a cultural center is not a place of worship. Thus, it should not be protected as a place of worship and shall not be protected as such.

Get them on record saying it isn't a mosque and then shut them down due to traffic flow, etc.
 
#131
#131
Orangetoes said:
We have a winner right here. This is the exact reason that certain communities have stopped Wal-Mart from building a new facility on privately owned and properly zoned property.
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so they should argue that the mosque will create a traffic issue in downtown NYC? Not sure that will fly
 
#132
#132
lawgator1 said:
What makes Iaslm any more "theocratic" than most of the mainstream Christian churches?
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If you really have to ask this question then you are ignorant of one or both.

Fundamental Islamic doctrine calls for the establishment of a worldwide state governed by the Laws of Islam... not a spiritual kingdom... not a kingdom established by a returning Messiah... Islam calls for the conquering of the whole world by persuasion if possible but by political control and violence if necessary.

Christ clearly established that his kingdom in this age was a spiritual one. Christians were NOT to force conversions or create armies to invade and conquer.

It is really hard to discuss this with you without knowiing how much you know.

Simply put, which mainstream churches in America are seeking to establish their doctrines and teachings as the absolute law of the land?
 
#133
#133
Medved described it well the other night:

Judaism is political but not universal. The nation of Israel is theocratic but does not have designs on forcibly converting the whole world.

Christianity is universal but not political. Its goal is to convert the world but by persuasion, not force.

Islam is both universal AND politcal. Its goal is to convert the world and establish a worldwide gov't based on Islam's unique model with no room for political or religious dissent.
 
#134
#134
utvolpj said:
so they should argue that the mosque will create a traffic issue in downtown NYC? Not sure that will fly
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The issue could be parking, foot traffic, congregations of people outside that create hazards, etc

LG is right about one thing. It won't fly unless it is already a standing ordinance and is applied with neutrality.
 
#135
#135
utvolpj said:
so they should argue that the mosque will create a traffic issue in downtown NYC? Not sure that will fly
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How about cultural disruption??

How about the nearby Dakota bar?

So far in lower Manhatten muslims have complained about bars being in business within sight of their 'mosques' and that they find achohol consumption offensive.

Albany has decided to appease them by not renewing lisences.

There are already about 100 mosques in NEW York, can you get a drink there soon?
 
#136
#136
utvolpj said:
so they should argue that the mosque will create a traffic issue in downtown NYC? Not sure that will fly
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As I said in my last post - the developers are saying that it isn't a mosque. They say it is a cultural center. Therefore, it doesn not enjoy protections under our constitution.
 
#137
#137
OrangeEmpire said:
Like I said, check the archive out.... we brought the home grown ones up........ no retort.....
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I must have missed that one, care to list those??



BigPapaVol said:
and? Who's going to be forced into the mosque?

If we don't allow mosques to go where other churches might, we are giving tacit governmental approval of certain religions and declaring others as less than worthy.
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At least declaring them less than dangerous.
 
#138
#138
I wonder if we would have let the Japanese build a military base in Pearl Harbor around 1950? Some of you would have supported that if you were around at that time. We are a much weaker and PC nation today. No way would any other generation who was attacked would allow the attackers build a camp at the very site they destroyed.
 
#139
#139
volfanjustin said:
I wonder if we would have let the Japanese build a military base in Pearl Harbor around 1950? Some of you would have supported that if you were around at that time. We are a much weaker and PC nation today. No way would any other generation who was attacked would allow the attackers build a camp at the very site they destroyed.
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Brilliant.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#141
#141
volfanjustin said:
I wonder if we would have let the Japanese build a military base in Pearl Harbor around 1950? Some of you would have supported that if you were around at that time. We are a much weaker and PC nation today. No way would any other generation who was attacked would allow the attackers build a camp at the very site they destroyed.
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Really?
 
#143
#143
volfanjustin said:
I wonder if we would have let the Japanese build a military base in Pearl Harbor around 1950? Some of you would have supported that if you were around at that time. We are a much weaker and PC nation today. No way would any other generation who was attacked would allow the attackers build a camp at the very site they destroyed.
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Mosque and military base are synonymous for those in doubt.

But seriously, not angry about the mosque - just questioning the location and those behind the scenes.
 
#144
#144
KiffinKiller said:
Mosque and military base are synonymous for those in doubt.

But seriously, not angry about the mosque - just questioning the location and those behind the scenes.
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The location is a thumb in the eye of the families and friends who lost loved ones on that day. Muslims are known for putting up Mosques in places where they have destroyed places of their enemies, as a symbol of victory. There are some very questionable characters behind this and no one knows where the funding is coming from.
 
#145
#145
volfanjustin said:
Muslims are known for putting up Mosques in places where they have destroyed places of their enemies, as a symbol of victory. There are some very questionable characters behind this and no one knows where the funding is coming from.
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"Muslims are known to"

"questionable characters"

"no one knows where the money is coming from"

Its like reading the banner at the bottom of the Fox channel. "Some people say" and "Who's behind" and "unknown sources say."
 
#146
#146
lawgator1 said:
"Muslims are known to"

"questionable characters"

"no one knows where the money is coming from"

Its like reading the banner at the bottom of the Fox channel. "Some people say" and "Who's behind" and "unknown sources say."
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Haha. "Questionable character seen walking passed Bowling Green, KY man's front lawn. Bowling Green PD looking for suspicious individuals over 6' tall."
 
#147
#147
Investigative Report: Exposing the Cordoba Islamic Center of Manhattan

With regard to historical precedent, the Dome of the Rock could serve as “Exhibit A” and the conversion of the former Byzantine basilica Hagia Sofia in Istanbul, Turkey as “Exhibit B” in the symbolism of Islamic conquest. In both instances, the mosques are perceived in the world of Islam as iconic symbols of victory over a beaten, subservient populace
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