Guatemala to Legalize Drugs?

#51
#51
distrovol said:
No, it's not. My hang up is that the model of legal but restricted access to hard drugs (pain pills) has not resulted in less addicts. Quite the opposite. It is not a stretch to extrapolate that if you add more quantity and potency to the choices of drugs for people to chose from then you will have more addicts.
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Ok, why do you care?
 
#52
#52
OrangeEmpire said:
But alcohol and tobacco is fine and dandy?
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No, but the reality is most people put them in a different catagory, whether you agree or not. I don't think pot is any worse than those two, but you have to draw the line somewhere. And it takes a lot longer and more "practice" to get hooked on those as opposed to the harder stuff, where it is possible to get hooked after just one or two tries.
 
#53
#53
distrovol said:
No, but the reality is most people put them in a different catagory, whether you agree or not. I don't think pot is any worse than those two, but you have to draw the line somewhere. And it takes a lot longer and more "practice" to get hooked on those as opposed to the harder stuff, where it is possible to get hooked after just one or two tries.
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Possible?
 
#54
#54
distrovol said:
No, it's not. My hang up is that the model of legal but restricted access to hard drugs (pain pills) has not resulted in less addicts. Quite the opposite. It is not a stretch to extrapolate that if you add more quantity and potency to the choices of drugs for people to chose from then you will have more addicts.
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You have support for that?

You're extrapolating support from an assumption not backed by data (yet). That is the very definition of a "stretch".
 
#55
#55
OrangeEmpire said:
Ok, why do you care?
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Because this is one of the things that can destroy this country socially and economically from the inside out. Once you go the rout of total legalization, good luck putting the proverbial genie back in the bottle.

I also have two youngins that has seen what addiction has done to their uncle, and am trying to keep the moral high ground.
 
#56
#56
distrovol said:
Because this is one of the things that can destroy this country socially and economically from the inside out. Once you go the rout of total legalization, good luck putting the proverbial genie back in the bottle.

I also have two youngins that has seen what addiction has done to their uncle, and am trying to keep the moral high ground.
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Addiction exclusive to your family?
 
#57
#57
nbakerld said:
You have support for that?

You're extrapolating support from an assumption not backed by data (yet). That is the very definition of a "stretch".
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Are you trying to say that addiction to prescription drugs has not exploded in the past 15-20 years?! Notwithstanding regular folks, look at well known people: Michael Jackson, Heath Ledger, Whitney Houston, Aaron Douglas, Brittany Murphy, and that's just off the top of my head. Look in local newpapers for stuff closer to home.
 
#58
#58
distrovol said:
No, but the reality is most people put them in a different catagory, whether you agree or not. I don't think pot is any worse than those two, but you have to draw the line somewhere. And it takes a lot longer and more "practice" to get hooked on those as opposed to the harder stuff, where it is possible to get hooked after just one or two tries.
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One of the side-effects of the war on drugs is an exaggerated fear of drugs. Crack is supposedly the most addictive drug. According to Stossel, 8 million Americans have tried it, and only 300 thousand are current users. Less than 4% of the people who have used crack are addicted.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5ToOhKmnuM[/youtube]
 
#59
#59
distrovol said:
Are you trying to say that addiction to prescription drugs has not exploded in the past 15-20 years?! Notwithstanding regular folks, look at well known people: Michael Jackson, Heath Ledger, Whitney Houston, Aaron Douglas, Brittany Murphy, and that's just off the top of my head. Look in local newpapers for stuff closer to home.
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It obviously has, but I'm not concerned with that. I'm concerned with overall substance abuse. So if the explosion of pill-poppers is just people moving from heroin to oxycontin, than I'd say that's probably a good thing.
 
#60
#60
distrovol said:
Are you trying to say that addiction to prescription drugs has not exploded in the past 15-20 years?! Notwithstanding regular folks, look at well known people: Michael Jackson, Heath Ledger, Whitney Houston, Aaron Douglas, Brittany Murphy, and that's just off the top of my head. Look in local newpapers for stuff closer to home.
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Alcohol and tobacco related deaths over the same time
 
#61
#61
OrangeEmpire said:
Addiction exclusive to your family?
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Your responses are quite strange at times. Of course addiction isn't exclusive to my family. I was asked why do I care, and shared a story of how addiction has impacted my family and have seen what it does to good people. And one of the ways he cleaned up was removing himself from the elements that gave him access to it. If it's at ye olde 7-11, hard to keep that buffer between himself and the temptation to replapse.
 
#63
#63
distrovol said:
Your responses are quite strange at times. Of course addiction isn't exclusive to my family. I was asked why do I care, and shared a story of how addiction has impacted my family and have seen what it does to good people. And one of the ways he cleaned up was removing himself from the elements that gave him access to it. If it's at ye olde 7-11, hard to keep that buffer between himself and the temptation to replapse.
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Why should your moral view shape policy?
 
#65
#65
distrovol said:
I fail to see how a country with a fraction of the population and vastly different culture is comparable to this country's drug problem.

To RT: So people use drugs simply because they're illegal and not because it feels good to get high or makes perceived problems go away? I concede there is a certain allure to the forbidden fruit, but the fact is drugs are used because it feels good. Making them easier to get is not the solution. This is a moral problem, not an economic problem.
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distrovol said:
I am doing nothing of the sort. When I say this is a moral problem, that means people become addicts because there is a breakdown in their own value system that allows them to place a higher priority on addiction as opposed to keeping a job, providing for ones family, or simply doing the right thing. And there are a lot of reasons why that happens. I'm not judging them.

So, you are not helping addicts by providing greater access to more and better drugs, as legalization would do. I do not thike it wise to trade more addicts for less black market-related crime. JMO
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...
 
#66
#66
nbakerld said:
It obviously has, but I'm not concerned with that. I'm concerned with overall substance abuse. So if the explosion of pill-poppers is just people moving from heroin to oxycontin, than I'd say that's probably a good thing.
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Your not concerned that the model of legal but restricted has shown that it doesn't result in fewer addicts, yet want it to be the way we put more quantity and more potency out there? Interesting.
 
#69
#69
distrovol said:
Your not concerned that the model of legal but restricted has shown that it doesn't result in fewer addicts, yet want it to be the way we put more quantity and more potency out there? Interesting.
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Of course you would want a better product........$$$$$$$ revenue
 
#72
#72
distrovol said:
Your not concerned that the model of legal but restricted has shown that it doesn't result in fewer addicts, yet want it to be the way we put more quantity and more potency out there? Interesting.
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We are not dealing with a logical being, guys.
 
#74
#74
OrangeEmpire said:
Because you are morally against it shouldnt be legal
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Oh, I see. Fair point. Aren't virtually all of peoples' positions predicated on their value (or belief) system?

Again, what I was speaking to was that this isn't an economic problem where the laws of supply and demand would be the fix-all. But rather a breakdown of peoples' value system that would put being high as a higher priority than being a good employee, a good parent, or a good citizen.
 
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