Hall Of Fame...

#26
#26
JTrainDavis said:
Doesn't belong in the same argument as these other guys. Lee Smith isn't HOF. Others may be, but not Joe Jackson level.
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Lee done it across the span of an entire career and was dominant for a period.

If Blyleven got in, so should Smith.
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#29
#29
NYYVol said:
True. Smith helped change the way managers used bullpens, though.
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True. I would put Smith in before several others. Personally i think the Veteran's committee insults the standard more than the BBWA does.
 
#30
#30
JTrainDavis said:
True. I would put Smith in before several others. Personally i think the Veteran's committee insults the standard more than the BBWA does.
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I think both suck at setting a standard. The Roid era is only going to muddle the process worse, unfortunately.
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#31
#31
If they're punishing steroid guys, and IMO rightfully so, there will be some lean classes coming up. A few nasty pitchers, not much on the offensive side, Griffey is the only one offhand, and that's a few years out.

The amount of "Prolific Hitters" who faded away fast is upsetting, which is why i don't care about career states.

Fred McGriff should be in.
 
#32
#32
As much as im not into 1B as a "real position", he was a pretty legitimate fielder compared to the nincompoop RF they put there now
 
#33
#33
JTrainDavis said:
If they're punishing steroid guys, and IMO rightfully so, there will be some lean classes coming up. A few nasty pitchers, not much on the offensive side, Griffey is the only one offhand, and that's a few years out.

The amount of "Prolific Hitters" who faded away fast is upsetting, which is why i don't care about career states.

Fred McGriff should be in.
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The problem is that they're punishing the ones who got caught or admitted, yet ones that stayed under the radar squeak by. I can honestly say that I don't think anyone should be punished. Sure hitters had some advantage, but many, many pitchers were juicing as well. Don't penalize folks because MLB turned a blind eye.

They created the monster.
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#34
#34
I figure we'll disagree on that point, I don't consider the obvious cheaters HoF, but they will surely be in there when the dust settles. Other than Don Pedro and Mariano, I really don't know about pitchers with juice, i think both are all time greats.

We know nobody will admit to anything, but that kills the whole sanctitiy of the record books, in the end we will know who was real, but I'm bothered with a guy with a size 8 3/4 hat being in the HOF.
 
#35
#35
JTrainDavis said:
I figure we'll disagree on that point, I don't consider the obvious cheaters HoF, but they will surely be in there when the dust settles. Other than Don Pedro and Mariano, I really don't know about pitchers with juice, i think both are all time greats.

We know nobody will admit to anything, but that kills the whole sanctitiy of the record books, in the end we will know who was real, but I'm bothered with a guy with a size 8 3/4 hat being in the HOF.
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I've spent a few years around Minor League Baseball and sadly you couldn't tell who was juicing or not. The thing about it is, the guys with the astronomical numbers were going to be HOF without the juice. Guys that you wouldn't expect by the eyeball test were just as guilty.

That's why I have a hard time punishing guys like Bonds, McGwire and hell even Sosa. They were damn good without them. They just done the status quo of baseball around this time frame.
 
#36
#36
I have a buddy who made it to AAA, he said it was all over. But of the 3 you mentioned, without the juice only Bonds would have been an all time great, and not as the home run king. On a good run Sammy might have been Tony Armas.
 
#37
#37
JTrainDavis said:
I have a buddy who made it to AAA, he said it was all over. But of the 3 you mentioned, without the juice only Bonds would have been an all time great, and not as the home run king. On a good run Sammy might have been Tony Armas.
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I think McGwire would have made it in without them. Honestly, this is exactly why I started this thread. It's amazing to see the names and even fans don't know where the line is. Makes for good conversation.
 
#39
#39
Of course, I'm not a fan of 1B either, they are almost in the Closer/DH category imo, to each their own.
 
#40
#40
JTrainDavis said:
Of course, I'm not a fan of 1B either, they are almost in the Closer/DH category imo, to each their own.
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It's the spot in the NL notorious for putting the big slob who moves like concrete but can smack the piss out of the ball.

Lazy ogres.
 
#41
#41
Better than a DH. Sorry, Edgar.

Even though he was an ok fielder, you don't get to Cooperstown sitting around waiting to hit IMO.
 
#43
#43
Okay, you're a yankee fan, so here goes.
If Mattingly or Dwight Evans has to get in, who gets it?
 
#45
#45
JTrainDavis said:
Okay, you're a yankee fan, so here goes.
If Mattingly or Dwight Evans has to get in, who gets it?
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I love Donny Baseball. Always have and always will. With that said, when I see him I don't think the entire body of work makes him a HOFer. He had a three year stretch where he was very good. That doesn't get him in.

Same with Evans. I just don't think he deserves it. Was a helluva player.

Now if one gets in, the other one would have to be a lock.
 
#46
#46
had they started out 10-15 years later respectively both would have raked. Do you think there was a light ball in the 90's?

I'm inclined to think so, personally.
 
#48
#48
JTrainDavis said:
had they started out 10-15 years later respectively both would have raked. Do you think there was a light ball in the 90's?

I'm inclined to think so, personally.
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A minor league manager in the Twins Organization swears that the ball was wound tighter than Dick's hatband during that time period.

The game is cyclical. But there were obviously some outside factors going on.
 
#50
#50
JTrainDavis said:
If nothing else it puts Pedro in the all time starting 5
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There was a stretch there where that guy was borderline untouchable. He's proof that a well placed fastball and a changeup are the best combo in baseball.
 
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