Has Heupel surpassed Butch as the best post-Fulmer coach?

#51
#51
Vols1891 said:
With the win against Bama yesterday, I think an argument could be made for Heupel being our best coach since Fulmer. However, Butch won all 3 bowl games, while Heupel is 0-1. Butch also had back to back 9 win seasons and beat Georgia, which Heupel hasn’t done. However, Butch never beat Alabama, so I’d say those two things cancel each other out. Also, both beat Florida. What do you guys think? Has Josh surpassed Butch yet, or does he need more time?
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At this rate, Heup is a lock for SEC CoY award. Butch never sniffed that in his entire time at Tennessee
 
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#53
#53
All you have to do is say "what would the other team rather face? Just Dobbs and Hurd in the backfield, or Dobbs, Hurd, and Kamara?" Easy enough, Hurd to attack the middle, and then Dobbs and Kamara on the edges. And both were good at catching the ball.out of the backfield. Its called using all of your tools to get the most benefit and butch clearly did not. If you think he did, then ok. I'm not going to convince you.
 
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#55
#55
I’m sure some will take this the wrong way but the way I see it Heupel has this team playing at an elite level but from an individual player talent perspective; outside of a hand full of these guys, few would have ever seen the field for Alabama, Georgia etc. For the first time in my 40 years, Tennessee has a staff that knows how to build players maximize potential and put these guys in the best position to win.

I cut my teeth on Tennessee football in the late 80’s and was in high school in ‘98. Those teams were absolutely loaded with talent. As much as I’m grateful for Fulmer and co for those years; give Heupel and staff the talent we had on those teams over the next 10 years and we win at least 3 national titles.

Bottom line: Lock this staff down to lucrative, long term contracts because these guys are building something special. GBO!!!
 
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#58
#58
This is a silly comparison. Every human being with a pulse and even the most basic understanding of football and/or leadership can see Josh is already outperforming the best of Butch's years. And Butch is by far the best of the four knuckleheads between Fulmer and Heup (for Tennessee...I know, I know, Kiffin is better in other places. Let's keep him there).

Now, the more interesting question is, when does Heupel surpass Fulmer as the second-best coach in Vols history? I firmly believe it's going to happen. And could be fairly soon.

The argument for Philip: 152-52 (.745 win rate) ... six SEC East titles, two SEC championships, and one national crown.

To match that, I don't think Heup needs necessarily to wait 14-16 seasons to amass 200 games' worth of statistics. I don't even think he needs to get six seasons of SEC East dominance behind him.

I think once he wins the SEC twice and a national championship, he's on par with Fulmer. Any hardware he brings home after that point, I think he surpasses Phillip.

The amazing thing about that is, he could theoretically achieve that in the next 15 months. Amazing start for the hot young head coach.

Go Vols!


EDIT: oh wow, I just noticed something.

Fulmer as a head coach was 152-52. That is a .745 win rate.
Heupel as a head coach is 41-14. That is a .745 win rate.

Right now, right this minute, as we sit here, the two are tied.

Next week, when we whup UT-Martin, Heupel surpasses Fulmer in win percentage. And hopefully never drops back down below him ever again. That will require us to beat UT-M, KY, and UGa all three....

Oh, and another benefit of that is that Georgia would NOT catch us in the Top 10 of the all-time winningest programs this year, and maybe never will (they were just 3 games behind us as the season started).

Go Vols!
 
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#59
#59
Vols1891 said:
With the win against Bama yesterday, I think an argument could be made for Heupel being our best coach since Fulmer. However, Butch won all 3 bowl games, while Heupel is 0-1. Butch also had back to back 9 win seasons and beat Georgia, which Heupel hasn’t done. However, Butch never beat Alabama, so I’d say those two things cancel each other out. Also, both beat Florida. What do you guys think? Has Josh surpassed Butch yet, or does he need more time?
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Is this a rhetorical question?
 
#60
#60
joevol33 said:
No comparison. Butch had talent, he didn't out coach anybody. Heupel is a coach, he out schemed the great bama defense all game. We needed a 2 point conversion that was executed beautifully, butch would be blaming the loss on his chart, because there's no way he does that. Heupel, with 25 seconds called two plays that put us in the spot to beat bama. Butch would've taken a knee for overtime. There's no comparison, Heupel is miles ahead.
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Yep, Butch would have the QB take a knee. Remember when we were tied with Missouri got the ball back near midfield about minute on clock. Dooley has QB take a knee we lose in OT. So glad we’ve moved on from our last 3 HCs.
 
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#64
#64
I’ll give Butch a little credit. This team is definitely playing with “5- star hearts”. CH took a rebuild and beat a team with 4 and 5 stars three deep.
 
#68
#68
This one game means more than the Dobbs Nail Boot, the ‘16 Florida game, and the Battle at Bristol combined. Heup is now 2-3 against the Big 3 and 4-0 against the little brothers of the East. It’s not even a discussion, really. Within 3 years from now, and possibly more like 3 months, we’ll be debating if Heupel is in the realm of Fulmer, Dickey, and Majors. Kiffy and the three Klowns are already waaay in the rearview mirror.
 
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#70
#70
joevol33 said:
No comparison. Butch had talent, he didn't out coach anybody. Heupel is a coach, he out schemed the great bama defense all game. We needed a 2 point conversion that was executed beautifully, butch would be blaming the loss on his chart, because there's no way he does that. Heupel, with 25 seconds called two plays that put us in the spot to beat bama. Butch would've taken a knee for overtime. There's no comparison, Heupel is miles ahead.
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15 seconds actually. It was beautiful.
 
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#71
#71
JBVolunteer said:
I’m sure some will take this the wrong way but the way I see it Heupel has this team playing at an elite level but from an individual player talent perspective; outside of a hand full of these guys, few would have ever seen the field for Alabama, Georgia etc. For the first time in my 40 years, Tennessee has a staff that knows how to build players maximize potential and put these guys in the best position to win.

I cut my teeth on Tennessee football in the late 80’s and was in high school in ‘98. Those teams were absolutely loaded with talent. As much as I’m grateful for Fulmer and co for those years; give Heupel and staff the talent we had on those teams over the next 10 years and we win at least 3 national titles.

Bottom line: Lock this staff down to lucrative, long term contracts because these guys are building something special. GBO!!!
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You’re absolutely correct. On paper we shouldn’t even be able to stay on the field with Bama. On paper we should’ve been beaten by LSU and Florida too. Coming into the year we had some people predicting 6-6 and 7-5 because of the roster. Now look. 10 wins is pretty much a lock, 11 wins is realistic and 12 is very possible. Vegas had us at what, I think it was about 7.5? Our coaching staff is proving that those recruiting rankings aren’t everything. They matter of course but they aren’t the whole story.
 
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#72
#72
Coach H showed how much better he was than all post Fulmer coaches when he took a 3 win team, then a good chunk of the top rated players from that team left along with a lot of depth players and won 7 games the next season. That was nothing short of outstanding.
 
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#73
#73
Vols1891 said:
With the win against Bama yesterday, I think an argument could be made for Heupel being our best coach since Fulmer. However, Butch won all 3 bowl games, while Heupel is 0-1. Butch also had back to back 9 win seasons and beat Georgia, which Heupel hasn’t done. However, Butch never beat Alabama, so I’d say those two things cancel each other out. Also, both beat Florida. What do you guys think? Has Josh surpassed Butch yet, or does he need more time?
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Why? Why ask this question?
 
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