Has Heupel surpassed Butch as the best post-Fulmer coach?

#77
#77
Vols1891 said:
With the win against Bama yesterday, I think an argument could be made for Heupel being our best coach since Fulmer. However, Butch won all 3 bowl games, while Heupel is 0-1. Butch also had back to back 9 win seasons and beat Georgia, which Heupel hasn’t done. However, Butch never beat Alabama, so I’d say those two things cancel each other out. Also, both beat Florida. What do you guys think? Has Josh surpassed Butch yet, or does he need more time?
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#80
#80
VFL-82-JP said:
This is a silly comparison. Every human being with a pulse and even the most basic understanding of football and/or leadership can see Josh is already outperforming the best of Butch's years. And Butch is by far the best of the four knuckleheads between Fulmer and Heup (for Tennessee...I know, I know, Kiffin is better in other places. Let's keep him there).

Now, the more interesting question is, when does Heupel surpass Fulmer as the second-best coach in Vols history? I firmly believe it's going to happen. And could be fairly soon.

The argument for Philip: 152-52 (.745 win rate) ... six SEC East titles, two SEC championships, and one national crown.

To match that, I don't think Heup needs necessarily to wait 14-16 seasons to amass 200 games' worth of statistics. I don't even think he needs to get six seasons of SEC East dominance behind him.

I think once he wins the SEC twice and a national championship, he's on par with Fulmer. Any hardware he brings home after that point, I think he surpasses Phillip.

The amazing thing about that is, he could theoretically achieve that in the next 15 months. Amazing start for the hot young head coach.

Go Vols!


EDIT: oh wow, I just noticed something.

Fulmer in his lifetime was 152-52. That is a .745 win rate.
Heupel in his lifetime is 41-14. That is a .745 win rate.

Right now, right this minute, as we sit here, the two are tied.

Next week, when we whup UT-Martin, Heupel surpasses Fulmer in win percentage. And hopefully never drops back down below him ever again. That will require us to beat UT-M, KY, and UGa all three....

Oh, and another benefit of that is that Georgia will NOT catch us in the Top 10 winningest programs all-time, and maybe never will (they were just 3 games behind us as the season started).

Go Vols!
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They aren't tied. That's silly. I love CJH and he certainly could surpass Fulmer. But he needs a natty and a few sec championships before he can even be considered
 
#81
#81
volfanhill said:
They aren't tied. That's silly. I love CJH and he certainly could surpass Fulmer. But he needs a natty and a few sec championships before he can even be considered
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Read it again, more carefully. Was clearly talking about one specific stat. And in that, they are tied.

I laid out earlier in that post what it would take for Heupel to catch Fulmer overall as head coaches.
 
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#82
#82
Vols1891 said:
With the win against Bama yesterday, I think an argument could be made for Heupel being our best coach since Fulmer. However, Butch won all 3 bowl games, while Heupel is 0-1. Butch also had back to back 9 win seasons and beat Georgia, which Heupel hasn’t done. However, Butch never beat Alabama, so I’d say those two things cancel each other out. Also, both beat Florida. What do you guys think? Has Josh surpassed Butch yet, or does he need more time?
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He has far surpassed Butch. Especially looking at what Hype had to work with, which was much less what Butch had, considering all the transfer outs. One big example, in a tie game with just seconds remaining Butch would have us take a knee to take it to ot. Butch would not have went for the hail mary at the closing of the 2nd qtr, at least Hype tried, and almost got a completion out of it.
 
#83
#83
EBFVOL said:
Imo He’s better than Fulmer more like the best coach since Majors don’t forget Fulmer took Majors program that was already a powerhouse with a great culture and just continued that. Heupel inherited a dumpster fire and has turned it around in less than 2 years much like Majors did when he came here from Pitt.
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💯
 
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#86
#86
EBFVOL said:
Imo He’s better than Fulmer more like the best coach since Majors don’t forget Fulmer took Majors program that was already a powerhouse with a great culture and just continued that. Heupel inherited a dumpster fire and has turned it around in less than 2 years much like Majors did when he came here from Pitt.
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Majors was very good but it took him more than 2 years though.
 
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#87
#87
Vols1891 said:
With the win against Bama yesterday, I think an argument could be made for Heupel being our best coach since Fulmer. However, Butch won all 3 bowl games, while Heupel is 0-1. Butch also had back to back 9 win seasons and beat Georgia, which Heupel hasn’t done. However, Butch never beat Alabama, so I’d say those two things cancel each other out. Also, both beat Florida. What do you guys think? Has Josh surpassed Butch yet, or does he need more time?
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1665952136746.jpeg
 
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#88
#88
VFL-82-JP said:
This is a silly comparison. Every human being with a pulse and even the most basic understanding of football and/or leadership can see Josh is already outperforming the best of Butch's years. And Butch is by far the best of the four knuckleheads between Fulmer and Heup (for Tennessee...I know, I know, Kiffin is better in other places. Let's keep him there).

Now, the more interesting question is, when does Heupel surpass Fulmer as the second-best coach in Vols history? I firmly believe it's going to happen. And could be fairly soon.

The argument for Philip: 152-52 (.745 win rate) ... six SEC East titles, two SEC championships, and one national crown.

To match that, I don't think Heup needs necessarily to wait 14-16 seasons to amass 200 games' worth of statistics. I don't even think he needs to get six seasons of SEC East dominance behind him.

I think once he wins the SEC twice and a national championship, he's on par with Fulmer. Any hardware he brings home after that point, I think he surpasses Phillip.

The amazing thing about that is, he could theoretically achieve that in the next 15 months. Amazing start for the hot young head coach.

Go Vols!


EDIT: oh wow, I just noticed something.

Fulmer as a head coach was 152-52. That is a .745 win rate.
Heupel as a head coach is 41-14. That is a .745 win rate.

Right now, right this minute, as we sit here, the two are tied.

Next week, when we whup UT-Martin, Heupel surpasses Fulmer in win percentage. And hopefully never drops back down below him ever again. That will require us to beat UT-M, KY, and UGa all three....

Oh, and another benefit of that is that Georgia would NOT catch us in the Top 10 of the all-time winningest programs this year, and maybe never will (they were just 3 games behind us as the season started).

Go Vols!
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Fulmer coached his entire career here. Using Heupel’s UCF record to compare the win % isn’t that fair. I get the point you’re making. Just sorta hard to use two seasons of UCF to compare to a record made up of all games coached at Tennessee.
 
#90
#90
JMSqb11 said:
Fulmer coached his entire career here. Using Heupel’s UCF record to compare the win % isn’t that fair. I get the point you’re making. Just sorta hard to use two seasons of UCF to compare to a record made up of all games coached at Tennessee.
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And yet, that is how it's done.

When we judge head coaches' careers in America today, we look at the totality of their careers. Fulmer's just happens to all have been at one school.
 
#91
#91
VFL-82-JP said:
And yet, that is how it's done.

When we judge head coaches' careers in America today, we look at the totality of their careers. Fulmer's just happens to all have been at one school.
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If you are trying to compare Heupel and Fulmer as the second best coach at Tennessee, you can’t choose to use Heupel’s UCF coaching record in the comparison.

I can guarantee you no one at Alabama is using Saban’s LSU days when comparing to Bear Bryant.

While Heupel is well on his way, the answer is pretty clear on if he’s better than Fulmer if you’re having to use his Mid major school coaching record to make it a closer comparison.

Seems very silly
 
#92
#92
hUTch2002 said:
You’re absolutely correct. On paper we shouldn’t even be able to stay on the field with Bama. On paper we should’ve been beaten by LSU and Florida too. Coming into the year we had some people predicting 6-6 and 7-5 because of the roster. Now look. 10 wins is pretty much a lock, 11 wins is realistic and 12 is very possible. Vegas had us at what, I think it was about 7.5? Our coaching staff is proving that those recruiting rankings aren’t everything. They matter of course but they aren’t the whole story.
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Imo recruiting rankings do matter, and we outplayed a bunch of 4 and 5 star players with much less talent. I am all in with Hype, even if we were to lose 2 or 3 games this year. I am still all in because I see a vast improvement with this team. And now we are already beginning to see more 4 and 5 star recruits coming to us. Hype is a great field coach.
 
#93
#93
VFL-82-JP said:
And yet, that is how it's done.

When we judge head coaches' careers in America today, we look at the totality of their careers..
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This isn’t the discussion we are having. The topic at hand was Heupel surpassing Fulmer as the second best coach in school history. Heupel’s time at UCF has zero to do with that subject. Pretty simple
 
#94
#94
Vols1891 said:
With the win against Bama yesterday, I think an argument could be made for Heupel being our best coach since Fulmer. However, Butch won all 3 bowl games, while Heupel is 0-1. Butch also had back to back 9 win seasons and beat Georgia, which Heupel hasn’t done. However, Butch never beat Alabama, so I’d say those two things cancel each other out. Also, both beat Florida. What do you guys think? Has Josh surpassed Butch yet, or does he need more time?
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Is this a serious question…?
 
#95
#95
Apples and oranges, this staff has been winning the x o battle every week since they arrived. The streak continues.
 
#97
#97
JMSqb11 said:
Fulmer coached his entire career here. Using Heupel’s UCF record to compare the win % isn’t that fair. I get the point you’re making. Just sorta hard to use two seasons of UCF to compare to a record made up of all games coached at Tennessee.
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I will say Fulmer was a great coach at UT, and Hype is doing very well so far here and I believe it will continue. We get our secondary better and wow, and 1 more thing when you are playing a good team keep pouring it on even with a 2 or 3 td lead do not let up. Saban even made a huge mistake at the end of the game, he could have run the clock down to where there would be no time left on the clock on their last possession, it seems he was thinking no way we would have time to do anything in that small amount of time. Just never let up till the game is over.
 
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#98
#98
EasternVol said:
...or Dickey or Majors and soon to be Heupel. He inherited (or stole) a very good team and eventually twice ran it into the ground.
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Fulmer is better than Majors. It's not even close. Tell again, how many championships did Majors win at UT? Majors rushed back and destroyed the 92 season. He should've been gone sooner. Fulmer was kept too long as well. But Fulmer is the better of the 2... You Majors guys are funny. Majors playbook was run, run, pass, punt.
 
#99
#99
Kylo said:
Fulmer is better than Majors. It's not even close. Tell again, how many championships did Majors win at UT? Majors rushed back and destroyed the 92 season. He should've been gone sooner. Fulmer was kept too long as well. But Fulmer is the better of the 2... You Majors guys are funny. Majors playbook was run, run, pass, punt.
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Majors fan boys hitting the bottle harder than ole Johnny ever did
 
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