Has the talent capped under Butch?

#126
#126
bignewt said:
Do i think there will be improvememt? Yes. With the d on track this offense will do what it needs to do. I can honestly see a 10 win season. Sure it could be 7 but why assume it so? CBJ has a make or break year im rooting for him because its good for everybody including the knee jerk fans.
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Fair enough.


I hope he wins a hell of a lot of games truthfully being a Tennessee fan I figure we all want what's best for the program
 
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#128
#128
Kristy* said:
So, what you're saying is CBJ out-coached McElwain? :thumbsup:
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Dudleys87 said:
That's noting to pound his chest about.
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If we had lost that game the negas would have been all over VN talking about how Mac out-coached Butch again. They don't realize the door swings both ways. They are upset about SC and Vandy, which we all are and rightfully so, but they don't acknowledge the beat down we handed Nebraska. Is Nebraska a better team than SC and Vandy? I think they probably are. What was the difference? Oh, we had a chance to get some players healthy and some back altogether.

We were lacking discipline, physical strength and endurance, and an overall sense of team last year. Rock is busy installing those as we speak. This team is losing some talent from last year but I think that they can be just as good or better if they fix the strength, physicality, and discipline issues from last year. Plenty of talent on this team and new coaches to take advantage of it.
 
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#130
#130
Maybe not. But if it doesn't improve relative to the top SEC teams we won't win the SEC championship, much less the NC. Hell, we won't even make it to the SECCG. Number 7 in the conference won't win the conference. Sorry for being negative.
 
#131
#131
OK, here's one to ponder, has talent gap closed between our main rivals, Bama, FL, GA? Is it trending toward closing the gap or is the gap widening?
 
#133
#133
InVOLuntary said:
OK, here's one to ponder, has talent gap closed between our main rivals, Bama, FL, GA? Is it trending toward closing the gap or is the gap widening?
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This year or since CBJ took the reigns. Over his tenure, the gap has closed. Don't think an assessment can be made until we see the 2016 and 2017 recruits actually play on the field (for both UT and rivals). On paper the gap may have widen with the 2017 class but not significantly except for Bama (they widen the gap on most everyone). My $.02 which is all it is worth.
 
#134
#134
InVOLuntary said:
OK, here's one to ponder, has talent gap closed between our main rivals, Bama, FL, GA? Is it trending toward closing the gap or is the gap widening?
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Widening currently. This has to change with the 2018 cycle or he's done IMO. The SDS article clearly showed us to be historically #6 in the SEC in recruiting for the past 13 years. Butch has not improved that in his 5 years of classes. That period covers the tenure of 4 HC's at UT. That's why it has become 7-5/8-4 U.
 
#135
#135
Vols4us said:
Widening currently. This has to change with the 2018 cycle or he's done IMO. The SDS article clearly showed us to be historically #6 in the SEC in recruiting for the past 13 years. Butch has not improved that in his 5 years of classes. That period covers the tenure of 4 HC's at UT. That's why it has become 7-5/8-4 U.
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I agree but I think that he won't be sent packing until the results of those classes are seen on the field. I think the gap between us and Bama is widening. I think GA's talent level getting far better than ours. I think FL is recruiting similar to us. I think GA is poised to dominate the east if, if, if, Kirby can coach a lick. I think he'll continue to recruit at an elite level because he's been trained in the Bama ways.
 
#137
#137
CTM said:
Isn't interesting that Bama loses two players (Scarbrough and Jackson) and it cost them a NC, we lose 10 players or more and everyone expects to win the East.
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Whats interesting is you actually believe that Alabama lost because of 2 players being injured.
 
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#139
#139
It's not how you start, but how you finish.

Big games in 2015 deserve to be looked at through the lens of this cliché. After some dramatic victories, the entire 2016 season could be summed up using this cliché. The 2017 recruiting class, after a frenetic beginning finished ho-hum. 2017/18 will determine if Butch's career at Tennessee is defined by this cliché. After the early panache will his career at Tennessee display the same crescendo and fall tendency? Or, is Butch still just getting started?

I think Butch is an earnest individual, works hard and wants to do things the "right way." This makes him an easy target and is unfairly clowned and trolled by the media. fivestarheart

I've also gone on record as saying he is out after this year, even if he is successful. If he is here after next season then extenuating to extraordinary circumstances transpire between now and fall of 2018.
 
#140
#140
St. JohnVolCactus said:
It's not how you start, but how you finish.

Big games in 2015 deserve to be looked at through the lens of this cliché. After some dramatic victories, the entire 2016 season could be summed up using this cliché. The 2017 recruiting class, after a frenetic beginning finished ho-hum. 2017/18 will determine if Butch's career at Tennessee is defined by this cliché. After the early panache will his career at Tennessee display the same crescendo and fall tendency? Or, is Butch still just getting started?

I think Butch is an earnest individual, works hard and wants to do things the "right way." This makes him an easy target and is unfairly clowned and trolled by the media. fivestarheart

I've also gone on record as saying he is out after this year, even if he is successful. If he is here after next season then extenuating to extraordinary circumstances transpire between now and fall of 2018.
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Why do you think this?
 
#141
#141
Dudleys87 said:
There's a big difference in being ultra negative and seeing it for what it is. I really don't see it as being negative if I don't believe 121 will be better than 120. I don't see it as being negative if I don't believe Jones can get Tennessee back where Tennessee belongs. It is what it is and in the end if I posted about how Tennessee will be better and Jones can get us where we need to be I'd be lying to myself.

Newt, realistically with everything that you know do you expect them to be better nxt year?

Honest question and it's open to others...
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The problem is that some already have their mind made up, and anything that is done or said, they criticize it. Do I think we can go 8-4 next year? Absolutely. We have many guys who are striving to prove themselves, and we have the talent to do it.
 
#142
#142
InVOLuntary said:
Why do you think this?
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Basically, I feel like he doesn't like the negativity in the fan base and the media surrounding TN. It isn't conducive to the type of motivational program he wants to build. So, he's fallen out of love with UT - it's not what he expected.

He was already putting out feelers after a "successful" 2016 season. New AD, heavy donor pressure, waning fan support, not living up to expectations (particularly his own), becoming a laughingstock (fairly deserved or not) and other potential Tennessee-blooded HCs in the wings all adds up to, "He gone."
 
#143
#143
VolGee4 said:
The problem is that some already have their mind made up, and anything that is done or said, they criticize it. Do I think we can go 8-4 next year? Absolutely. We have many guys who are striving to prove themselves, and we have the talent to do it.
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Sweet. 8-4 has now become aspirational.
 
#144
#144
McGeesPub said:
Sweet. 8-4 has now become aspirational.
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Did I say that? He asked if we could have a better season (and I presumed just as good)? Never said that was my aspirations. But one thing is clear, we aren't firing the coach at 8-4.
 
#145
#145
St. JohnVolCactus said:
Basically, I feel like he doesn't like the negativity in the fan base and the media surrounding TN. It isn't conducive to the type of motivational program he wants to build. So, he's fallen out of love with UT - it's not what he expected.

He was already putting out feelers after a "successful" 2016 season. New AD, heavy donor pressure, waning fan support, not living up to expectations (particularly his own), becoming a laughingstock (fairly deserved or not) and other potential Tennessee-blooded HCs in the wings all adds up to, "He gone."
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I know for a fact he would have left had anything palatable come available this year. I think he'd have to have a great season before that would be available after next season. I'm not sure who you're referring to when you say TN blooded coaches though.
 
#146
#146
VolGee4 said:
Did I say that? He asked if we could have a better season (and I presumed just as good)? Never said that was my aspirations. But one thing is clear, we aren't firing the coach at 8-4.
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Well, let's chalk it up to semantics then.

I'd say if next year is 8-4 or worse though, the ceiling has firmly been established.
 
#147
#147
InVOLuntary said:
I know for a fact he would have left had anything palatable come available this year. I think he'd have to have a great season before that would be available after next season. I'm not sure who you're referring to when you say TN blooded coaches though.
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Didn't you say at one time that before the Vandy loss, he was all but gone to a team with a sitting coach? Since the offseason HC moves and recruiting are over, any more details you can share?
 
#150
#150
I'm clueless at the moment. It seemed to me Butch intentionally recruited 3 star players. The one day that we accepted 8 three star players set the tone for the class. Butch settled, possibly thinking we would lose some of those guys and recruits saw it as us taking a step back. No four/five star recruit was impressed by that move. Yes we lost out on guys like Higgins and Johnson, but we didn't focus on big names.

From the very start I believe Butch always wanted this class to be filled with guys he could develop and would put up and shut up.
 
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