Have none of yall ever negotiated a pay raise?

[Vol8188]

What’s scary is you read, responded to, and now act as if you couldn’t comprehend my first post on the subject. I think the players should be compensated in some way for play. It’s a two way street. I get that. Universities make tons on these kids but they also give these kids the platform to get where they want to go in life, tuition, facilities, millions before they’ve ever taken a snap for some. The complaint is it’s gotten carried away and will only get worse. I know good and well it’s not going anywhere. Doesn’t mean I have to like it.

What is “carried away”?

 

[EastTNVol6240]

For decades the successful teams felt players should be compensated more than just with the scholarship, education, training, exposure..... and paid them illegally and informally. Decades.

Now that it's out in the open, people act as though they've never DREAMED players were paid before and that "it's out of hand."

What was it before? Okay because we didn't talk about it except to say "Bama buys players" "Duke pays basketball players" or whatever.

Who defines "it's gotten carried away?" The free market economy system is a highly conservative, highly valued, and highly successful system. That's what is happening. The value of the players is being "bid up" by competition. It's as American as you being a valuable employee and sought after by several employers via offers for more money, better benefits, more vacation, etc.

Where is this "carried away" not as American as apple pie?

The structure is the issue. They’re “not being paid to play” but they are. It 100% should be tied to measurables and in some cases it’s not. It’s a bidding war and a shot in the dark. These kids get millions before they’ve proven anything. That’s the exact opposite if the “American dream” you just explained. How many Harrison Bailey’s do we spend 8 mil of nil money on just to be bamboozled? That hurts the university, fans, people who donate(and I do). I never said I disagree with the compensation. I just think it’s got a long way to go before it’s refined.

 

[The Original Fade]

Buddy, that University is making millions off these players. They don’t get TV contracts and sponorships for their grades.

Your - and my - degree benefits from the university having a national brand

Quit your whining

This whole notion of the Universities making millions “off the players” is designed to sound like schools are forcing players to play. The players are adults who have a choice. For 100 years they accepted the terms of a free education for a chance to play college football and possibly play professionally. Now a judge ruled players should be able to profit from their abilities. Fine, but the every season re-negotiation is not good for the sport. If it was, the NFL would be doing it. Sign contracts based on % of revenue, if a player leaves then receiving school must buy out that contract like what happens when coaches leave. Problem solved for the most part

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

The structure is the issue. They’re “not being paid to play” but they are. It 100% should be tied to measurables and in some cases it’s not. It’s a bidding war and a shot in the dark. These kids get millions before they’ve proven anything. That’s the exact opposite if the “American dream” you just explained. How many Harrison Bailey’s do we spend 8 mil of nil money on just to be bamboozled? That hurts the university, fans, people who donate(and I do). I never said I disagree with the compensation. I just think it’s got a long way to go before it’s refined.

Rookies sign into every pro league having not proven a thing in the pro leagues but having a good college record or scouting evaluation. What's different?

These kids are being scouted, graded, watched, and then paid. Did we happen upon Nico in CA by accident? No. His film and workouts earned him more value than others we scouted. What's different?

Players are chosen, drafted, recruited, etc all the time by their previous performance and often paid and sometimes they are busts. What's different?

It's not like this is new. Players have been getting recruited for decades with money and some panned out and some crapped out. What's different?

What's different is that we can see how the sausage is made and many people aren't strong enough to see that.

 

[Vol8188]

The structure is the issue. They’re “not being paid to play” but they are. It 100% should be tied to measurables and in some cases it’s not. It’s a bidding war and a shot in the dark. These kids get millions before they’ve proven anything. That’s the exact opposite if the “American dream” you just explained. How many Harrison Bailey’s do we spend 8 mil of nil money on just to be bamboozled? That hurts the university, fans, people who donate(and I do). I never said I disagree with the compensation. I just think it’s got a long way to go before it’s refined.

I’m not seeing the problem. People are paid on potential. When I’ve hired people I paid them based on what I thought their potential production would be. I fired them if they didn’t met it.

Why’s that bad? I’m failing to see your perceived problem

 

[Orangepantsforever]

CONTRACTS. This isn't fair to the team nor the coaches trying to build the team. CFB is dead in 3-5 years if contracts aren't a thing. Coaches can't even recruit to fill positions of need, because they never know who is next to leave. College football will lose quality coaches to the NFL as well... it's why you'll see more of these flashy former players becoming head coaches because no one else wants to deal with this garbage.

Exactly! I said the same thing, and someone referenced the Sherman Act, as to why that couldn’t be done. That’s all above my head, but the pros can’t do this. You can’t just up and decide, mid-playoffs, that you want to swap from the Bears to the Saints, can you? Something has to be reigned in.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

I don’t negotiate a pay raise by posting cryptic social media messages with emojis like I’m still in middle school

Isn't it pretty crazy to assume that's all these players have done? They're in Anderson almost, if not, EVERY day talking with Coach Heupel and others.

Heupel has "end of the season" evaluations with players and they can ask to meet or Coach can ask to meet any time.

But you think social media is all they do to negotiate? Really?

 

[Volbrando]

Isn't it pretty crazy to assume that's all these players have done? They're in Anderson almost, if not, EVERY day talking with Coach Heupel and others.

Heupel has "end of the season" evaluations with players and they can ask to meet or Coach can ask to meet any time.

But you think social media is all they do to negotiate? Really?

Never said that’s all they do.

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

You get a pay raise by showing your value and then getting market comps to justify your worth.

Some of yall need to realize Portal players can come back.

I don’t blame any kids getting a raise or renegotiating.

A great early lesson in how pure capitalism works

Exactly. I negotiated pay raises more than once. I also changed jobs for higher pay,better benefits, and better working conditions a couple of times. Win-win every time.

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

When college football is more chaotic than the NFL, we have a problem.

No, we don't.

 

[Vol8188]

This whole notion of the Universities making millions “off the players” is designed to sound like schools are forcing players to play. The players are adults who have a choice. For 100 years they accepted the terms of a free education for a chance to play college football and possibly play professionally. Now a judge ruled players should be able to profit from their abilities. Fine, but the every season re-negotiation is not good for the sport. If it was, the NFL would be doing it. Sign contracts based on % of revenue, if a player leaves then receiving school must buy out that contract like what happens when coaches leave. Problem solved for the most part

Accepted is a weird way of stating that. They weren’t given a ton of options.

Players should be allowed to freely negotiate. The only thing that needs to change is we need enforceable contracts. When you agree to an NIL deal it needs to be at least for 1 full season. Players should still be free to sit out (obviously forfeiting x amount due to that), but what they shouldn’t be free to do is agree in December to play somewhere, then leave and agree to play somewhere else in January, and then leave and agree to play at a third school in May like a certain SDE who played here

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

I would equate it to free agency rather than capitalism. And like free agents, not all these players are going to get paid more money. Some may simply want more playing time and forego any NIL increases and potentially may earn less. The bulk of these transfers will never play in the NFL and all the other professional football leagues don't pay that much. Hopefully these guys are making sure all their course credits transfer towards a major and a degree to wherever they end up.

False Dilemma. Free agency is a capitalistic concept.

 

[VolByBirth]

And like any negotiation, there is value in Championships, development, and other perks so it shouldn’t be purely the dollar — that said, I’m unsure UT has proven they excel in the non-dollar value-add.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Accepted is a weird way of stating that. They weren’t given a ton of options.

Players should be allowed to freely negotiate. The only thing that needs to change is we need enforceable contracts. When you agree to an NIL deal it needs to be at least for 1 full season. Players should still be free to sit out (obviously forfeiting x amount due to that), but what they shouldn’t be free to do is agree in December to play somewhere, then leave and agree to play somewhere else in January, and then leave and agree to play at a third school in May like a certain SDE who played here

Enforceable contracts = employment contracts and welcome to pro sports. If you're signing a contract to play sports for money, how are you not a pro athlete?

Think player's union, salary caps, free agency rules, revenue sharing negotiations, etc, etc.

As for NIL, as long as they continue that charade to pay players, it cannot be controlled. Can the NBA tell Steph Curry he can't make another stupid Subway or insurance commercial? No.

 

[teeball]

Contracts almost certainly means the courts declare the players are professional athlete employees of the school. Doesn't THAT mean college football is dead?

Hmmmm … don’t know but my guess is that there is nothing that prevents colleges from fielding professional sports teams. Kinda like they are doing now via the NIL consortiums. I thought I read earlier that Danny was going to add a “fee” to ticket prices earmarked for player salaries. Maybe they are paying salaries now? Once this happens and I think it will I wonder how long it will be before any academic requirements are discarded and we drop the pretense of “student” athlete. College sports is no longer an amateur endeavor sadly it’s just another professional sports league.

 

[Cartervol]

Yes let’s pay for the education others are paying 100K for, let’s pay for the best housing on campus, let’s pay for the best food you can get, let’s pay for training/medical. Let’s give them the platform to make it to the NFL and make millions(more). Let’s treat them differently than everyone on campus(I attended UT). Yes let’s pay them millions before they’ve ever taken a snap. Then let’s let them bend us over a barrell by talking to other schools every time the portal opens. All sounds great. Some if this I agree with, but when is to much to much?

It already is.

 

[Vol8188]

Enforceable contracts = employment contracts and welcome to pro sports. If you're signing a contract to play sports for money, how are you not a pro athlete?

Think player's union, salary caps, free agency rules, revenue sharing negotiations, etc, etc.

As for NIL, as long as they continue that charade to pay players, it cannot be controlled. Can the NBA tell Steph Curry he can't make another stupid Subway or insurance commercial? No.

You’re falsely assuming professionalism requires all of that. Revenue sharing already exists. We already have free agency. The rest of what you named isn’t necessary.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Hmmmm … don’t know but my guess is that there is nothing that prevents colleges from fielding professional sports teams. Kinda like they are doing now via the NIL consortiums. I thought I read earlier that Danny was going to add a “fee” to ticket prices earmarked for player salaries. Maybe they are paying salaries now? Once this happens and I think it will I wonder how long it will be before any academic requirements are discarded and we drop the pretense of “student” athlete. College sports is no longer an amateur endeavor sadly it’s just another professional sports league.

I'm not an attorney but colleges are often non profit or state owned and I'm unsure about them getting in the pro sports business.

It has nothing to do with education so the best plan is to spin it away from the school as a business, form a league with other successful schools, and lease the logo, stadium, etc. Remove the ruse of "we're educating these athletes but they're really just students" and let pros be pros and other schools have actual college sports with students.

That sucks for traditional UT sports but it doesn't hurt the students elsewhere like ETSU or wherever who would rather actually educate students and not run a pro franchise.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

You’re falsely assuming professionalism requires all of that. Revenue sharing already exists. We already have free agency. The rest of what you named isn’t necessary.

Revenue sharing is starting next year, I think. Court cases are already moving to declare players employees.

If you pay someone, that is ... revenue share what you make from the games they play in.... you can expect that the courts and certainly the IRS are going to say those athletes are pros.

If they are, they'll unionize to leverage their power to get more revenue sharing, as they always have and should do for their interests AND they'll insist on freedom to move to another team, free agency and trade rules, again to protect their interests.

It might not be "necessary" but it is in the interest of athletes to unionize and negotiate as a unit to increase their earnings.

 

[Vol8188]

Revenue sharing is starting next year, I think. Court cases are already moving to declare players employees.

If you pay someone, that is ... revenue share what you make from the games they play in.... you can expect that the courts and certainly the IRS are going to say those athletes are pros.

If they are, they'll unionize to leverage their power to get more revenue sharing, as they always have and should do for their interests AND they'll insist on freedom to move to another team, free agency and trade rules, again to protect their interests.

It might not be "necessary" but it is in the interest of athletes to unionize and negotiate as a unit to increase their earnings.

Unions do not have to be recognized. They already have the freedom to move to another team. Trades will never be a thing. Players wouldn’t want to be traded.

Considering many already think their earnings are “out of control”, I’m not sure why paying union fees would be in their interest. Trades aren’t in their interest. Nor are salary caps.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Unions do not have to be recognized. They already have the freedom to move to another team. Trades will never be a thing. Players wouldn’t want to be traded.

Considering many already think their earnings are “out of control”, I’m not sure why paying union fees would be in their interest. Trades aren’t in their interest. Nor are salary caps.

You can talk to an attorney about unionization. I'm not one but I believe you cannot stop workers from unionizing very easily in America.

Talk to the players and I'll bet they don't think earnings are "out of control." And they have the skills...... if you want them, pay for them.

Trade CONTROLS are very much in the interest of players once the courts call them pros and salary caps are for the leagues to determine to maintain parity so, as we're currently seeing, the very rich teams don't buy all the good players.

 

[Vol8188]

You can talk to an attorney about unionization. I'm not one but I believe you cannot stop workers from unionizing very easily in America.

Talk to the players and I'll bet they don't think earnings are "out of control." And they have the skills...... if you want them, pay for them.

Trade CONTROLS are very much in the interest of players once the courts call them pros and salary caps are for the leagues to determine to maintain parity so, as we're currently seeing, the very rich teams don't buy all the good players.

The question isn’t “stop them”. Do as you wish. The point is you don’t have to honor that. You’re welcome to join whatever group you wish. I’m not required to care.

I’m in no way opposed to paying

Trades will never be a thing because players choose their school. You’re wrongly taking the pro model as you know it and assuming all the same aspects will be a necessity here (salary caps, trades, etc).

Without a draft, there will be no trades. Players aren’t going to agree to a draft nor to trades because those things don’t benefit them.

You have to stop thinking this will be a copy and paste of the nfl

 

[volmandu]

Yes let’s pay for the education others are paying 100K for, let’s pay for the best housing on campus, let’s pay for the best food you can get, let’s pay for training/medical. Let’s give them the platform to make it to the NFL and make millions(more). Let’s treat them differently than everyone on campus(I attended UT). Yes let’s pay them millions before they’ve ever taken a snap. Then let’s let them bend us over a barrell by talking to other schools every time the portal opens. All sounds great. Some if this I agree with, but when is to much to much?

You seem upset over supply and demand aspect of open market ? You only seem to want capitalism where it fits you the best ?
Why do these athletes get the treatment that you & I dont ? Why special housing for them ? Why scholarships for them ? Coz they bring millions to school. They are elite at a skill that makes money , lots of it.
Stop whining!!

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

The question isn’t “stop them”. Do as you wish. The point is you don’t have to honor that. You’re welcome to join whatever group you wish. I’m not required to care.

I’m in no way opposed to paying

Trades will never be a thing because players choose their school. You’re wrongly taking the pro model as you know it and assuming all the same aspects will be a necessity here (salary caps, trades, etc).

Without a draft, there will be no trades. Players aren’t going to agree to a draft nor to trades because those things don’t benefit them.

You have to stop thinking this will be a copy and paste of the nfl

Again, I'm not an attorney but if the players are pros and they form a union, you will negotiate with that union, I think. I don't think you can still just hire "scabs" and run to mines in America. But again, I'm not an attorney.

You cannot employ highly skilled workers and expect them to simply accept the terms and contracts you benevolently offer. If you WANT talent, you'll pay for talent.

I'll suggest that you need to realize the ship is already loaded and the gangplank is almost pulled on the "these are just students who happen to play sports" model. Some are making millions to play sports and rarely seeing a classroom. C'mon.

 

[Vol8188]

Again, I'm not an attorney but if the players are pros and they form a union, you will negotiate with that union, I think. I don't think you can still just hire "scabs" and run to mines in America. But again, I'm not an attorney.

You cannot employ highly skilled workers and expect them to simply accept the terms and contracts you benevolently offer. If you WANT talent, you'll pay for talent.

I'll suggest that you need to realize the ship is already loaded and the gangplank is almost pulled on the "these are just students who happen to play sports" model. Some are making millions to play sports and rarely seeing a classroom. C'mon.

You do not have to hire union members in most states. And yes, Wyoming and Kentucky (two of the larger coal mining states) for example are both states in which you do not have to hire union members. So 100% you can “hire scabs and run to the mines”

You keep talking about pay as if I’m opposed or in anyway pushing back against that. Not sure why.

I’ve never said these are just students. You’re fighting wind mills over here Don Quixote. How about try responding to the things I’m saying rather than wasting time about “pay” and “student athletes”

What I am saying is professions do not require drafts, salary caps, trades, nor unions. Just because you see x, y, or z in the NFL, doesn’t mean it will exist in CFB.

If players are employees of the university, you can’t trade janitors with a school in Alaska and force your janitor to move to Alaska. Trades will not occur. Nor will a draft. Players will keep the ability to decide where they play