Have none of yall ever negotiated a pay raise?

#76
#76
loosecannon said:
But they aren’t employees
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Seriously. Everyone who wants players to get paid but not treated like employees looks like a fool right now. I was against NIL from the get go and still am. Pageantry is gone. Loyalty to representing a university and a fanbase is mostly gone. Can’t buy a guy’s jersey cuz he might be gone in 12 months. It’s pathetic.

You want NIL? Ok fine. Then I say pay your own way. Make it so that you can’t have both. Scholly? Or NIL? You choose. Maybe would make some of these guys think twice. Also wait til some of these young men see how much Uncle Sam takes from their multimillion dollar NIL deals.
 
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#77
#77
Namorto1 said:
I would equate it to free agency rather than capitalism. And like free agents, not all these players are going to get paid more money. Some may simply want more playing time and forego any NIL increases and potentially may earn less. The bulk of these transfers will never play in the NFL and all the other professional football leagues don't pay that much. Hopefully these guys are making sure all their course credits transfer towards a major and a degree to wherever they end up.
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Free agency IS capitalism in its most pure form.
 
#78
#78
Vol8188 said:
You do not have to hire union members in most states.

You keep talking about pay as if I’m opposed or in anyway pushing back against that. Not sure why.

I’ve never said these are just students. You’re fighting wind mills over here Don Quixote. How about try responding to the things I’m saying rather than wasting time about “pay” and “student athletes”

What I am saying is professions do not require drafts, salary caps, trades, nor unions. Just because you see x, y, or z in the NFL, doesn’t mean it will exist in CFB.

If players are employees of the university, you can’t trade janitors with a school in Alaska and force your janitor to move to Alaska. Trades will not occur. Nor will a draft. Players will keep the ability to decide where they play
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Show me a pro league without a draft or some way to maintain parity. Athletic talent isn't like a janitor. If .... when.... a pro team buys all the talent and simply dominates for years, the league isn't very successful.

Show me a league that doesn't work out trade rules and profit sharing via a player's union negotiation. You're trying to say "college will be pro, but special." Why?
 
#80
#80
Really ramped up a few years ago when players took to social media, being exploited by those buying the tickets and profiting. Entertaining the crowd in the Saturday coliseums. While being subjected to only a free education, room, board and opportunity. Nobody with money wants to be labeled for not giving back to those making millions. As those in a sports of color struggle to be college kids.

www.theguardian.com

Race, money and exploitation: why college sport is still the ‘new plantation’

Athletes are now able to make money from sponsorship. But many players believe that the NCAA maintains racial dynamics that are endemic in the US
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
 
#81
#81
UneducatedGuess said:
Exactly. They are all contractors who can bid their services.

I don’t blame them a damn bit

They’re an Inky Johnson odd hit away from not achieving all that’s in front of them.
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Are you implying they put their personal well-being on the line for nothing in return?!?! They get a lot in return before we ever get to the conversation about NIL. A lot that straight-A students who are not athletes don’t get. I mean the free education alone……$26,000 a year right? And that’s just here at Tennessee. Lots of places are way higher. And all the special treatment that comes with it.
 
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#82
#82
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
Show me a pro league without a draft or some way to maintain parity. Athletic talent isn't like a janitor. If .... when.... a pro team buys all the talent and simply dominates for years, the league isn't very successful.

Show me a league that doesn't work out trade rules and profit sharing via a player's union negotiation. You're trying to say "college will be pro, but special." Why?
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Why do we need parity or a draft?

And what state do you live in? I’m amazed you thought people have to hire union members.

Being pro doesn’t mean draft and trades. “The NFL doesn’t it this way!” Isn’t a valid argument.

Why are they a necessity? They’re not. Players will oppose drafts and trades, and should
 
#83
#83
volanatic said:
Seriously. Everyone who wants players to get paid but not treated like employees looks like a fool right now. I was against NIL from the get go and still am. Pageantry is gone. Loyalty to representing a university and a fanbase is mostly gone. Can’t buy a guy’s jersey cuz he might be gone in 12 months. It’s pathetic.

You want NIL? Ok fine. Then I say pay your own way. Make it so that you can’t have both. Scholly? Or NIL? You choose. Maybe would make some of these guys think twice. Also wait til some of these young men see how much Uncle Sam takes from their multimillion dollar NIL deals.
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What is this "college" you speak of where athletes graduate but are known to rarely attend?

As always, if a booster really wants an athlete, they'll pony up tuition AND if a coach wants an athlete to be academically eligible, they'll keep them eligible.
 
#84
#84
volmandu said:
You seem upset over supply and demand aspect of open market ? You only seem to want capitalism where it fits you the best ?
Why do these athletes get the treatment that you & I dont ? Why special housing for them ? Why scholarships for them ? Coz they bring millions to school. They are elite at a skill that makes money , lots of it.
Stop whining!!
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Ahh yes. Nico had definitely proven he was worth 8 mil before he ever even took a snap at Neyland. That’s called paying for a product you didn’t test. I wouldn’t do it and neither would you. The problem isn’t the pay, once again it’s the structure that needs work. Imagine telling someone to “stop whining” on a message board comprised of 99% “whining”. How do very righteous of you. Oh and yes that eliteness very much showed through last Saturday don’t you think? I donate to the NIL cause. Do you? It’s kind of like voting. I’m doing my part so I can “whine” if I’d like.
 
#85
#85
Vol8188 said:
Why do we need parity or a draft?

And what state do you live in? I’m amazed you thought people have to hire union members.

Being pro doesn’t mean draft and trades. “The NFL doesn’t it this way!” Isn’t a valid argument.

Why are they a necessity? They’re not. Players will oppose drafts and trades, and should
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Without some parity you end up with a product that's not very interesting, doesn't sell eyeballs to ESPN, and the gravy train stops flowing to the schools.

If the B1G can buy all the good players, why watch the SEC? That is why people don't watch minor league sports, the quality isn't there. It's why I don't PPV a fight between Jim from the local bar who boxes a little and his cousin Ed who boxed in the service 5 years ago.

The league wants parity or they won't make money.
 
#86
#86
Vol8188 said:
I’m not seeing the problem. People are paid on potential. When I’ve hired people I paid them based on what I thought their potential production would be. I fired them if they didn’t met it.

Why’s that bad? I’m failing to see your perceived problem
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That’s BS and you know it. People are not paid on potential. I own a business as well. I damn sure pay on production, not potential. Everyone has “potential”. Many choose to do 0 with it. If you’re hiring on “potential” I’d bet your turnover % is something ridiculous. This is the NFL JR now. No one in the NFL is paid on potential. You don’t think blowing millions is bad? I’d live to see that PL on your business. We’re all already crying that UT doesn’t spend enough on NIL moves but we’re okay with throwing 8 mil in the can every once in a while? Let’s call it what it is. It’s pay to play now. And I’m good with it. But it damn sure oughta be tied to what you do for us now, and not what you did playing against 16 year olds 2 years ago.
 
#87
#87
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
Without some parity you end up with a product that's not very interesting, doesn't sell eyeballs to ESPN, and the gravy train stops flowing to the schools.

If the B1G can buy all the good players, why watch the SEC? That is why people don't watch minor league sports, the quality isn't there. It's why I don't PPV a fight between Jim from the local bar who boxes a little and his cousin Ed who boxed in the service 5 years ago.

The league wants parity or they won't make money.
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You still didn’t tell me what state you live in.

CFB has never had parity and that is literally what makes it interesting. I don’t care if a team with a 50/50 chance wins. People watch for the Boise State Oklahoma moments.

CFB is making money. There will be no draft. There will be no trades
 
#88
#88
EastTNVol6240 said:
That’s BS and you know it. People are not paid on potential. I own a business as well. I damn sure pay on production, not potential. Everyone has “potential”. Many choose to do 0 with it. If you’re hiring on “potential” I’d bet your turnover % is something ridiculous. This is the NFL JR now. No one in the NFL is paid on potential. You don’t think blowing millions is bad? I’d live to see that PL on your business. We’re all already crying that UT doesn’t spend enough on NIL moves but we’re okay with throwing 8 mil in the can every once in a while? Let’s call it what it is. It’s pay to play now. And I’m good with it. But it damn sure oughta be tied to what you do for us now, and not what you did playing against 16 year olds 2 years ago.
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That’s why 100% commission jobs weed out the weak. Show me how good you are and you’ll be rewarded. But don’t waste your time as the clock is ticking for that first check.
 
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#89
#89
Vol8188 said:
You still didn’t tell me what state you live in.

CFB has never had parity and that is literally what makes it interesting. I don’t care if a team with a 50/50 chance wins. People watch for the Boise State Oklahoma moments.

CFB is making money. There will be no draft. There will be no trades
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I'll wait 5 years to answer. Perhaps less. Hopefully I'll still have 2 brain cells to rub together then.

And interstate commerce companies likely will play in a state that requires union representation.
 
#90
#90
Vol8188 said:
Accepted is a weird way of stating that. They weren’t given a ton of options.

Players should be allowed to freely negotiate. The only thing that needs to change is we need enforceable contracts. When you agree to an NIL deal it needs to be at least for 1 full season. Players should still be free to sit out (obviously forfeiting x amount due to that), but what they shouldn’t be free to do is agree in December to play somewhere, then leave and agree to play somewhere else in January, and then leave and agree to play at a third school in May like a certain SDE who played here
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2 years minimum unless a coach leaves
 
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#91
#91
EastTNVol6240 said:
That’s BS and you know it. People are not paid on potential. I own a business as well. I damn sure pay on production, not potential. Everyone has “potential”. Many choose to do 0 with it. If you’re hiring on “potential” I’d bet your turnover % is something ridiculous. This is the NFL JR now. No one in the NFL is paid on potential. You don’t think blowing millions is bad? I’d live to see that PL on your business. We’re all already crying that UT doesn’t spend enough on NIL moves but we’re okay with throwing 8 mil in the can every once in a while? Let’s call it what it is. It’s pay to play now. And I’m good with it. But it damn sure oughta be tied to what you do for us now, and not what you did playing against 16 year olds 2 years ago.
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You hire people on potential. No one is producing when you hire them. You hire them assuming they’ll produce. The same thing happens in countless businesses. Top graduates are offered 6 digit salaries and 5 digit bonuses before they’ve produced anything. My wife and I both had multiple job offerers similar to that out of school.

If no one in the NFL is paid on potential, are you claiming the rookies are working for free or are you just making $hit up?

Who is “blowing millions”?
 
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#95
#95
Vol8188 said:
You hire people on potential. No one is producing when you hire them. You hire them assuming they’ll produce. The same thing happens in countless businesses. Top graduates are offered 6 digit salaries and 5 digit bonuses before they’ve produced anything. My wife and I both had multiple job offerers similar to that out of school.

If no one in the NFL is paid on potential, are you claiming the rookies are working for free or are you just making $hit up?

Who is “blowing millions”?
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Tell me the % of athletes in div 1 football that make it to the league? Very small. These are proven athletes. Much more so than at the high school level. These players are drafted out of conferences where they have been playing big boy ball. Are there still flops? Sure there are. But much less so than coming from HS. Rookies are much more proven than a 17 year old kid coming from from a HS where they beat up on 16 year olds that will never play a snap again. Trying to compare paying a rookie and paying a kid out of high school is a much different situation and you know it.

I would say multiple schools are blowing millions. I definitely don’t feel as if we got a return on millions in NIL this year. Yes you’ll pull the “we were 10-2” card. Truthfully we struggled against any team of any decency. We were embarrassed last weekend. I just think it’s silly we’re handing out millions to kids who have never taken a college snap. I’m all for paying the kids. I just think it could be done much differently. We’re essentially paying contracts. We don’t want to call it that but it is what it is. So let’s make those contracts contingent on play.
 
#96
#96
pimo1 said:
The vast majority... at least the majority of the ones getting paid..If they are getting NIL money they have representation 9/10
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So much for negotiating your own pay raise. 😂

Don’t get me wrong, if it were my 18 yr old kid, he’d have the best representation available.

Let’s face it, there is a very thin gray line between NFL and college when it comes to compensation.

In some ways NFL is more constrained than college. College kids are moving around like popcorn.
 
#97
#97
Butch s said:
Just like Lou holtz said. Players today are about entitlement and privilege. Not obligation and responsibility. I don’t care how much the university, or the coaches make. You are not entitled to their money. Don’t like it,don’t play. Nobody is made to play college football
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I wonder if Lou Holtz ever left for a better offer?
 
#98
#98
pimo1 said:
Free agency IS capitalism in its most pure form.
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Free agency refers to a worker not under contract in both the business and the sports realm. A “free market” is a fundamental attribute of free market capitalism, but there is nothing about free agency that “IS capitalism in its pure form.” A free market has reliable information and open access. An independent worker has the freedom to choose to be a contract worker or a free agent or part of a collective bargaining agreement. Free agency is just one of a myriad of choices available in free market capitalism.
 
#100
#100
UneducatedGuess said:
I don’t blame any kids getting a raise or renegotiating.

A great early lesson in how pure capitalism works
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Apparently, the "lesson" is for these old folks who've only ever had a 'job'. They've been payed by weekly or monthly paycheck their whole lives and have no idea how the real world operates. An eye-opener for their asses.
 
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