Herman Cain

#576
#576
GAVol said:
I'm thinking what happened is that he thought the confidentiality agreement was a little more airtight than it was and that he'd never be challenged on the details.
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Can you point me to the details? Sexual harassment is a VERY broad accusation. Women have filed sexual harassment complaints because they thought men looked at them too long or in a sexual way... they "perceived" S/H so it was treated seriously whether it was true or not. Complaints have been filed because a man told a woman she looked nice in a particular outfit. OTOH, bosses have demanded sexual favor for advancement, told offensive jokes, or punished people for things related to sexual/romantic relationships.

The first thing most S/H prevention trainers say is "Sexual harassment is in the eye of the potential victim".

Without the details, what are you going to deny or not deny?
 
#577
#577
GAVol said:
The headline of this story - while technically true - comes off as something in the National Enquirer once you read the article.

Herman Cain Hit by Tax Lien - ABC News
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$8500? Seriously? The Secretary of the Treasury is a tax cheat. Rangel is a tax cheat. How many others? And ABC is going to pick on $8500 for a guy who was probably drawing several million?
 
#578
#578
sjt18 said:
Can you point me to the details? Sexual harassment is a VERY broad accusation. Women have filed sexual harassment complaints because they thought men looked at them too long or in a sexual way... they "perceived" S/H so it was treated seriously whether it was true or not. Complaints have been filed because a man told a woman she looked nice in a particular outfit. OTOH, bosses have demanded sexual favor for advancement, told offensive jokes, or punished people for things related to sexual/romantic relationships.

The first thing most S/H prevention trainers say is "Sexual harassment is in the eye of the potential victim".

Without the details, what are you going to deny or not deny?
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I think people are willing to take him at his word as far as what happened. But it's hard to explain away his story changing about the settlement.
 
#579
#579
sjt18 said:
Did he lie or was he taken off guard by the questions?

I honestly don't know. The sooner he answers it directly and honestly... the better.

But I will reassert... a disjointed response is not of itself evidence of wrong doing.
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How was he caught off guard? He had 10 days.
 
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#580
#580
sjt18 said:
$8500? Seriously? The Secretary of the Treasury is a tax cheat. Rangel is a tax cheat. How many others? And ABC is going to pick on $8500 for a guy who was probably drawing several million?
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It's not just ABC. A lot of media outlets have run the story under the exact same headline. It makes him out to be a tax cheat that ignored his bills . . . until you read the story and realize he filed the proper extension and was following a process with his accountant.
 
#581
#581
GAVol said:
I think people are willing to take him at his word as far as what happened. But it's hard to explain away his story changing about the settlement.
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That's why I think he should come out with a statement, admit anywhere that he was not completely truthful, maybe even lay out the accusations with his answer to them, and ask for forgiveness.

I mean good grief. Clinton lied repeatedly then finally settled on "Well it was difficult with Hillary"... and the American people gave him a pass. I mean seriously. It was difficult for Hillary? He'd done it many times before... why was it any different with Monica?

The best thing he can do is come clean.
 
#582
#582
GAVol said:
It's not just ABC. A lot of media outlets have run the story under the exact same headline. It makes him out to be a tax cheat that ignored his bills . . . until you read the story and realize he filed the proper extension and was following a process with his accountant.
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But there's no way liberal bias is responsible, right?

This is the kind of stuff that LG and others here just do not see.

If this was done to both sides equally then I wouldn't have a problem with it. It might even be healthy to cause people to trust politicians less. If the MSM would just admit they are partisans that filter the news through their agenda... I wouldn't have a problem with that.

I do have a problem with reporting stuff like this as if it is a straight news story with no agenda attached.
 
#583
#583
The strategy of continually talking about it definitely is not working. He needs to shut up, get on message and let time heal the wound.
 
#584
#584
therealUT said:
How was he caught off guard? He had 10 days.
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I have been caught off guard by my boss after having plenty of notice. It was a matter of what each of us thought was important.

It seems he didn't think it would be as big as it is. Let's go back to the facts that we know. We know 2 women left that organization with "5 digit" settlements and complained at some point about some form of sexual harassment. Think about that for a minute. Two middle mgt types left jobs with 5 digit settlements after accusing an executive of S/H... does that sound to you like they had a good case? Again, I have a personal friend who was fired from being a plant manager over 100 people. He was probably make $100K or so. He was given 6 months severance. Yet these women were subjected to criminal misbehavior in the workplace and got only five figures?

Here's what you get with a good case:

O.C. Tab for Harassment Settlements to Top $1 Million - Los Angeles Times

Notice what this gal got for the charges she made:

Iowa Tractor-Trailer Business Settles Sexual Harassment Lawsuit | Minneapolis Employment Lawyer Blog

There's bunches more you can find online.

Unless these well educated women just really, really stank at choosing lawyers... they didn't have a case that was going to win in court. They got what they got so the company could avoid PR problems and legal fees... but for only 5 figures they weren't giving much even at that. Less than $200k is far less than it would have likely cost them in legal fees alone.

The one substantial thing came from the other woman who said Cain invited her to his apartment. But unless he persisted or pressured her, she didn't have a case either. However that IS the thing out there that could potentially hurt him with conservative voters. It still hurts Newt and his problems occured more than 10 years ago.
 
#585
#585
nbakerld said:
It's gotta be Romney. There's no other choice with potential to win at this point unless Christie or Ryan throw their hat in. Or if Ron Paul has an explosion in popularity....sorry about that. I started daydreaming mid-post.
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Let me preface my remarks with a disclaimer. I can't stand Obama's policies. I think they are wrong and an utter failure. He has exacerbated our problems and has incited class warfare in our society. He is a loser.

That being said...

I would rather see Obama reelected than Romney. Romney is a democrat in republican clothing. On virtually every issue his instincts are a democrats. Romneycare is just a hint of the kinds of crap this man is capable of. The reason I would rather see Obama is simple. I don't think Obama can get any more of his crap through the House, and probably not in the Senate either. He is effectively neutered by congress. Romney, on the other hand, will have the obligatory support of the GOP in congress and since most of his ideas and plans will be palatable to the dems, he will be able to come to compromises with them and pass an agenda that they will approve of. Romney's ideas are less dangerous than Obama's, however, he has a lot more potential for harm simply because he has a lot more potential to get his ideas made law.
 
#586
#586
sjt18 said:
I have been caught off guard by my boss after having plenty of notice. It was a matter of what each of us thought was important.

It seems he didn't think it would be as big as it is. Let's go back to the facts that we know. We know 2 women left that organization with "5 digit" settlements and complained at some point about some form of sexual harassment. Think about that for a minute. Two middle mgt types left jobs with 5 digit settlements after accusing an executive of S/H... does that sound to you like they had a good case? Again, I have a personal friend who was fired from being a plant manager over 100 people. He was probably make $100K or so. He was given 6 months severance. Yet these women were subjected to criminal misbehavior in the workplace and got only five figures?

Here's what you get with a good case:

O.C. Tab for Harassment Settlements to Top $1 Million - Los Angeles Times

Notice what this gal got for the charges she made:

Iowa Tractor-Trailer Business Settles Sexual Harassment Lawsuit | Minneapolis Employment Lawyer Blog

There's bunches more you can find online.

Unless these well educated women just really, really stank at choosing lawyers... they didn't have a case that was going to win in court. They got what they got so the company could avoid PR problems and legal fees... but for only 5 figures they weren't giving much even at that. Less than $200k is far less than it would have likely cost them in legal fees alone.

The one substantial thing came from the other woman who said Cain invited her to his apartment. But unless he persisted or pressured her, she didn't have a case either. However that IS the thing out there that could potentially hurt him with conservative voters. It still hurts Newt and his problems occured more than 10 years ago.
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You are totally missing the point, my man. He was accused of stuff. Bad stuff. We don't know exactly what, but it was bad man, bad. Then, he wasn't smooth enough in how he responded. C'mon, a decent politician can tell better lies than that with a hangover and explosive diarrhea. Do you really want a bad liar as president? Be real, man, nobody wants a fundamentally honest dude in the oval office. Nobody. Then, think about it man, he had, like, 10 days or something to come up with a slick story and what did he do? He wasted time talking about the issues. Issues, man! Like we wanna hear about stuff like that! Oprah has her own network, do you see some law professor or economist doing that? We don't care about that stuff! Give us the dirt, man, and don't leave out any of the sleazy details, and if you can't come up with any, we will just make up ones that fit. You need to get over these naive ideas you have man, and like, live in the real world. You know, until it like, implodes under the weight of its own detritus.

~imagine this delivered in my best Dennis Hopper impersonation~
 
#588
#588
RespectTradition said:
You are totally missing the point, my man. He was accused of stuff. Bad stuff. We don't know exactly what, but it was bad man, bad. Then, he wasn't smooth enough in how he responded. C'mon, a decent politician can tell better lies than that with a hangover and explosive diarrhea. Do you really want a bad liar as president? Be real, man, nobody wants a fundamentally honest dude in the oval office. Nobody. Then, think about it man, he had, like, 10 days or something to come up with a slick story and what did he do? He wasted time talking about the issues. Issues, man! Like we wanna hear about stuff like that! Oprah has her own network, do you see some law professor or economist doing that? We don't care about that stuff! Give us the dirt, man, and don't leave out any of the sleazy details, and if you can't come up with any, we will just make up ones that fit. You need to get over these naive ideas you have man, and like, live in the real world. You know, until it like, implodes under the weight of its own detritus.

~imagine this delivered in my best Dennis Hopper impersonation~
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:lolabove:

Thanks... that was good.
 
#589
#589
RespectTradition said:
Let me preface my remarks with a disclaimer. I can't stand Obama's policies. I think they are wrong and an utter failure. He has exacerbated our problems and has incited class warfare in our society. He is a loser.

That being said...

I would rather see Obama reelected than Romney. Romney is a democrat in republican clothing. On virtually every issue his instincts are a democrats. Romneycare is just a hint of the kinds of crap this man is capable of. The reason I would rather see Obama is simple. I don't think Obama can get any more of his crap through the House, and probably not in the Senate either. He is effectively neutered by congress. Romney, on the other hand, will have the obligatory support of the GOP in congress and since most of his ideas and plans will be palatable to the dems, he will be able to come to compromises with them and pass an agenda that they will approve of. Romney's ideas are less dangerous than Obama's, however, he has a lot more potential for harm simply because he has a lot more potential to get his ideas made law.
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Absolutely.

Obama with a GOP Congress could well be as "unproductively" productive as Clinton with a GOP House. While executive orders would still be at his finger tips, he would be checked if he tried to abuse them.

Boehner and the GOP Senate would feel compelled to "support their President" if Romney got in. Doing that gave us gross spending and expansion of gov't power and cost under Bush.
 
#590
#590
Cain can never, and will never, admit he lied. The moment he does, he's finished.
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#591
#591
At the end of the night, when the candidates got the chance to ask each other questions, Gingrich asked Cain an admitted softball about what it was like getting into politics after his success in the private sector. Cain said the biggest surprise was "the nit-pickiness of the media," and went on to say that some journalists are "downright dishonest." Cain returned the favor by asking Gingrich what he would do as vice president. Gingrich said that, after studying Dick Cheney, he would refrain from hunting. (While in office, Cheney famously shot his friend Harry Whittington in the face while quail hunting in Texas.)

Very interesting question Cain asked Newt...Newt as VP.?

In Texas Debate, Cain and Gingrich Don't Mention Perry — 2012 Presidential Election | The Texas Tribune
 
#592
#592
"Nit-picking"? Cain's arrogance will be his undoing, even if it isn't in this particular case.
 
#595
#595
Rasputin_Vol said:
Why are you so worked up over someone that you don't even think will win the GOP nomination?
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I wasn't, originally. Just sort of assumed that the GOP base would reject a guy caught lying like this. But they love their black conservatives and I guess their rally against the mainstream is enough to overcome the facts.
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#596
#596
lawgator1 said:
I wasn't, originally. Just sort of assumed that the GOP base would reject a guy caught lying like this. But they love their black conservatives and I guess their rally against the mainstream is enough to overcome the facts.
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what has Cain lied about?
 
#597
#597
American Way: A funny thing happened on the way to the Herman Cain lynching – Telegraph Blogs

Simply put, the media and Cain’s detractors have over-played their hand. By Friday night, Politico, which broke the original story, had published 94 articles on the allegations in under six days. Every other major publication had followed suit. Every time he stepped out of a room, Cain was mobbed by reporters.

Yet despite the maelstrom, Cain’s accusers remain anonymous and the details of the allegations oddly vague. With many conservatives believing that sexual harassment lawsuits are an industry and that frivolous cases are often settled to avoid more expensive litigation, there was a growing sense that Cain was being treated unfairly.

Cain’s very amateurishness became almost endearing. Rather than mouthing slick talking points, Cain got angry with the journalists (a profession loathed by most Republican activists) and claimed that he was the victim of a “high-tech lynching”.
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#598
#598
#599
#599
Why do people act like Cain is above lying to the public? Is there bandwagon that comes with free blinders I need to jump on? wake me up when politicians don't automatically lie when pressured.
 
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