Hey alleged Christians ....

#51
#51
You guys are great. You ostensibly worship a sky god who flat-out told you to eschew possessions and take care of the poor, yet you're willing to justify spending $30,000 more on yourself than you need to just because it's "within your means." Rock on, America. It's way more important that I have a great climate control system and a self-parking system and Corinthian leather seats than that those poor fscks down at the mission tonight eat.
 
#52
#52
NEOCON said:
50k is not alot of money to some people.

to you 50k is alot. but not to all. percentage to income your fit may be more than someone elses lotus.
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We make plenty of money; we could easily afford a $50,000 car. But why spend so much on something that's basically a driving appliance? I'd rather spend the difference on something else -- travel, the house, etc. Fortunately for me it's just an economic decision; I'm not shackled to this morality that I have to pay lip service to but that I somehow have to rationalize getting around.
 
#53
#53
Why do you have to slander a religion to get this point across. The point is taken that we can ALL do more, yourself and myself included, but to have no class in making that point is unneccessary.
 
#54
#54
And now you are going to argue this was all Lip service and that you have no obligations whatsoever...priceless
 
#55
#55
Vercingetorix said:
We make plenty of money; we could easily afford a $50,000 car. But why spend so much on something that's basically a driving appliance? I'd rather spend the difference on something else -- travel, the house, etc. Fortunately for me it's just an economic decision; I'm not shackled to this morality that I have to pay lip service to but that I somehow have to rationalize getting around.
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you are very judgemental.

i agree if you are makinf just enough to pay the payment and not giving to charity and the church its messed up. i dont agree that if you are giving what the Bible ask of you (or more) and have the funds left over to buy a benz that its wrong. a benze for buffet is like pennies. christ cares about the heart.

i also dont think 50k is living big time. now you wanna flip that out for ferrari i would agree. nobody needs to spend 400k on a car no matter what. but the billionaire might disagree with me.
 
#56
#56
OsbourneBROS83 said:
And now you are going to argue this was all Lip service and that you have no obligations whatsoever...priceless
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Why should I have any obligations? I'm not a Christian. I don't have a book in which my god tells me over and over again to take care of the poor. All I'm doing is pointing out hypocrisy. You could have fully universal health care come up for a vote in this county, and if it would cost people five bucks out of their paychecks, they'd vote it down. And then they'd go to church on Sunday.
 
#57
#57
NEOCON said:
you are very judgemental.

i agree if you are makinf just enough to pay the payment and not giving to charity and the church its messed up. i dont agree that if you are giving what the Bible ask of you (or more) and have the funds left over to buy a benz that its wrong. a benze for buffet is like pennies. christ cares about the heart.

i also dont think 50k is living big time. now you wanna flip that out for ferrari i would agree. nobody needs to spend 400k on a car no matter what. but the billionaire might disagree with me.
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Of course $50,000 isn't living big time. But if your god tells you that taking care of the poor is your biggest obligation, and that you're going to be judged based on "I was hungry and you fed me; I was naked and you clothed me," then all of a sudden the luxury package starts to look a little more obscene, doesn't it? How many meals at the mission could that extra $10,000 pay for? I guess it depends on whether you take the Bible seriously.
 
#58
#58
Ok again I will point out freshmen Civics classes and defer to the social contract theory. Do you think that we have the country we have because people have had your attitude on the subject? I can see we are on two different sides of the isle. Hopefully you are comfortable with your life while you preach to us how to live. RIDICULOUS
 
#59
#59
You could buy a Hyundai Elantra for 10,000 instead of that Honda Fit and save 5,000 so how many meals would taht provide?
 
#60
#60
Vercingetorix said:
Why should I have any obligations? I'm not a Christian. I don't have a book in which my god tells me over and over again to take care of the poor. All I'm doing is pointing out hypocrisy. You could have fully universal health care come up for a vote in this county, and if it would cost people five bucks out of their paychecks, they'd vote it down. And then they'd go to church on Sunday.
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What does one have to do with the other?

Universal health care is a service that the state provides.

The Bible holds individuals to a standard.

You can't argue apples and oranges. Individuals have an obligation to their fellow man... and to themselves.

If Al Capone would have paid his taxes, would he have gone to heaven because he financed a gov't program?
 
#61
#61
Vercingetorix said:
Of course $50,000 isn't living big time. But if your god tells you that taking care of the poor is your biggest obligation, and that you're going to be judged based on "I was hungry and you fed me; I was naked and you clothed me," then all of a sudden the luxury package starts to look a little more obscene, doesn't it? How many meals at the mission could that extra $10,000 pay for? I guess it depends on whether you take the Bible seriously.
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I think you got salvation missed up with deeds.

also, your debate is now a personal thought process. technically, your fit could be switched out for a 500 dollar piece of crap that would get you to work.

you picked a number but anything over getting the job done is now a luxury. the 500 for ac could buy a meal too. so couldnt the power windows.

Book of JOb shows its not about money but about the heart.
 
#62
#62
Vercingetorix said:
How many meals at the mission could that extra $10,000 pay for? I guess it depends on whether you take the Bible seriously.
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Are you really helping somebody by feeding them at the homeless shelter over the long term? Or will they become dependent on the benevolence of others instead of doing for themselves?
 
#64
#64
Was trying to keep him from using the arguement that he needed reliable transportation for his family. Its sad that people are out there that hate Christianity so much...we have to change that perception.
 
#65
#65
OsbourneBROS83 said:
You could buy a Hyundai Elantra for 10,000 instead of that Honda Fit and save 5,000 so how many meals would taht provide?
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I don't have to provide shat to anybody because I don't subscribe to the morality that most of you guys are conveniently ignoring. I buy a cheap car because I selfishly want to spend $10-15,000 a year on travel, not because I'm trying to feed anybody. You guys are the ones whose god has putatively told you to take care of the poor, not me.
 
#66
#66
Ok taking into account that you dont suscribe to religion...how can you argue the morality of anything regarding the issue of giving when you admittedly do not care to spend money selfishly? AND ONCE AGAIN THERE IS SOMETHING CALLED THE SOCIAL CONTRACT. I will remind you of it once you expect the police to come to your aide if you were to ever need it, because according to you, you dont suscribe to morality i.e. a SOCIAL CONTRACT
 
#67
#67
Vercingetorix said:
I don't have to provide shat to anybody because I don't subscribe to the morality that most of you guys are conveniently ignoring. I buy a cheap car because I selfishly want to spend $10-15,000 a year on travel, not because I'm trying to feed anybody. You guys are the ones whose god has putatively told you to take care of the poor, not me.
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Yeah, you hate Christians.
 
#68
#68
Rasputin_Vol said:
Are you really helping somebody by feeding them at the homeless shelter over the long term? Or will they become dependent on the benevolence of others instead of doing for themselves?
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I've read through the Gospels dozens of times in my life, and I really can't remember any passages where Jesus worried that helping the poor would make them dependent on the benevolence of others. All I remember is him repeatedly commanding his followers to help them. Can you provide a verse where Jesus was worried about anything beyond that?
 
#69
#69
You would be arguing for universal health care, and that Christians dont do enough while convenienlty saying that morality doesnt apply to you since you dont believe in Christ. So you can blame everything on Christians all the while enjoying rationalizing money savings to go toward an extravagent vacation. THAT IS THE DEFINITION OF HYPOCRISY. unbelieveable
 
#70
#70
Vercingetorix said:
I've read through the Gospels dozens of times in my life, and I really can't remember any passages where Jesus worried that helping the poor would make them dependent on the benevolence of others. All I remember is him repeatedly commanding his followers to help them. Can you provide a verse where Jesus was worried about anything beyond that?
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LG was hoping for someone like you to pop in here.

And here you are.

Just don't understand the anger coming from you.
 
#71
#71
OsbourneBROS83 said:
Ok taking into account that you dont suscribe to religion...how can you argue the morality of anything regarding the issue of giving when you admittedly do not care to spend money selfishly? AND ONCE AGAIN THERE IS SOMETHING CALLED THE SOCIAL CONTRACT. I will remind you of it once you expect the police to come to your aide if you were to ever need it, because according to you, you dont suscribe to morality i.e. a SOCIAL CONTRACT
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What the heck does the mythical social contract have to do with morality in the Bible? I pay taxes. I give to charity. I'm sure as heck not going to feel like a freeloader when the cops show up at my house. I give to charity because I feel like it and I like to help people, not because I'm commanded to. If I felt commanded to I would probably give a lot more. Because I actually think that words mean things, and I would probably feel like the words of Jesus were pretty frigging straightforward.
 
#72
#72
NEOCON said:
LG was hoping for someone like you to pop in here.

And here you are.

Just don't understand the anger coming from you.
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I don't have any anger at all. I just think that hypocrites who bend that far over to justify themselves are always outstanding entertainment. Saw this thread pop up and knew it would be full of them. Hasn't been a letdown.
 
#74
#74
OsbourneBROS83 said:
You would be arguing for universal health care, and that Christians dont do enough while convenienlty saying that morality doesnt apply to you since you dont believe in Christ. So you can blame everything on Christians all the while enjoying rationalizing money savings to go toward an extravagent vacation. THAT IS THE DEFINITION OF HYPOCRISY. unbelieveable
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I'll type slowly so you can understand. I do not have a cosmological view of the universe that includes a bunch of flat-out direct orders to take care of the poor by a personage whom I believe to be God. Christians do. I can give nothing to the poor or everything to the poor; it's all the same, as far as my (lack of) belief system goes. How can I be guilty of hypocrisy when I don't have commandments to be hypocritical about?

(I'm a theist -- I think that there was probably a prime mover (or "creator"), but I'm fairly agnostic about what who he his or what he wants from us. I'm pretty sure that the god who ordered the crimes against humanity in Numbers 31 isn't really him, though.)
 
#75
#75
OsbourneBROS83 said:
Its not mythical it was taught you moron...and do tell how you know me to be a hypocrite?
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Look, I am philosophically a libertarian. But eventually I grew up and realized that John Locke's wonderful state of nature is an adolescent fantasy in the context of an existing polity of 300 million people. What works with you and me and 30 other guys on an island does not scale up to what we have now. If it did, we wouldn't have shipped our manufacturing jobs overseas because labor's drastically cheaper everywhere. Hobbes at least was right about the social contract -- it is pretty much the law of tooth and claw. Any elevating of ourselves beyond that is apparently voluntary.
 
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