Holly Warlick

[Vol4Real]

:good!:

Re: Coach Holly...it's sad that fans who have supported LV for decades (and who pointed out the shortcomings in some of Pat's strategies that occasionally undermined the recruited talent) are labeled "haters" simply because they're fed up with all of the signs of decline (and, frankly, a very un-entertaining brand of bb being played). The "love it or leave it" crowd...as in "My coach, right or wrong"...should be aware that some people may turn around & call those who seem to accept mediocrity "haters" for actually demonstrating a lack of love for the program. Coaches get fired all the time but usually land on their feet elsewhere (often times finding rejuvenating their careers). Lots of lateral moves get made (look at the changes made in the SEC football this season).

Probably the wrong time to bring this up since it's a mole hill compared to the mountain of LV woes right now, but what is Warlick's problem in front of a mic? You'd think that her two-decades-plus experience giving interviews & addressing the public (camps, pressers, clubs, charity events, etc.) would have prepared her to speak coherently. It's easy to dismiss her rambling style as just an insignificant personal quirk, but honestly...isn't communicating effectively a big part of coaching in college (I coached girls' basketball, volleyball, & softball for 12 years, and even at middle school level, communication was important). Is she sharp & on point during games & time outs but just falls apart on tv or radio? Don't catch her show so don't know how she is in the studio.

It may seem very unfair & like just more piling on, but this issue has been brought up for years (particularly after she became HC). Does she sound like this in the living rooms of recruits? If so, it seems that the program's history is the selling point more than confidence in CHW (although she may have a really warm demeanor that appeals to parents & recruits). If one wants a coach who can handle pressure, you'd think a little ole microphone wouldn't be that big an obstacle (especially since many of the players are so well-spoken). I know it drives many of us fans crazy to listen to her (and has for years now) but would just be written off if the product on the floor was acceptable. GA could sound like a muttering idgit and body would care given how well his team plays. But when a team is struggling like this, every aspect comes under greater scrutiny.

And...setting the fragmented thoughts aside...it goes even further. Some of Warlick's biggest defenders here keep pointing out how early it is in the season...yet Warlick recently stated that she "hasn't given up on this team yet." Aside from the fact that it's probably not a great idea for any coach to publicly discuss "giving up" on players...especially when those same players are next year's team with only a few exceptions...isn't it awfully "early" for a head coach to be even bringing up a doomed season possibility? One can argue that she doesn't really mean that, but that would still indicate a communication problem. Similarly, she gives conflicting messages about what she wants from players re: offensive execution, seems to get priorities wrong at times, and makes a lot of puzzling statements (or gives odd impressions re: expectations when playing unranked, near-winless teams). If Holly really means what she says, then she should say what she means...clearly.

It's one thing to carp on a coach's sartorial habits...a lot of coaches dress out in questionable attire :mega_shok:...but I can't remember hearing any head coach who consistently sounded as discombobulated or even downright clueless. :question: Van Chancellor routinely butchered names, but that just became an endearing trait (to some; annoying to others). But he sounded as though he had a grip on what actually happened on the court.

Even if CHW's team suddenly fixes all deficiencies, goes on a tear, and ends up in the Final Four (which seems more like Final Fantasy right now), I'd still wonder what her problem is with public speaking.

You bring up a lot of good points in this novel you wrote. Lol. I don't disagree with any.

 

[Vol4Real]

People have to understand when a Coach in major programs put their names on the dotted line and accept the multitude of dollars that they received for coaching, when they do not produce the product that is expected then they will be a targets of criticism and being criticized is a part of coaching in a big program such as a school like Tennessee. Go check out the Florida's message board when they lose in football, go check out Alabama's message board when they lose, better yet listen to Paul Finebaum when Alabama loses. The expectation for a school like Tennessee in football and women's basketball should be greater then just being mediocre and struggling to beat a team that is ranked 208 in the nation. The University of Tennessee women's basketball program is the pioneer of women basketball and if not for Lady Vols and Pat Summit women's college basketball would not be what it is today. So yes if we criticize the lack of coaching of the big time players that we have recruited, as a fan base we have that right. If you do not like it you don't have to read the posts because you will not sway anyone's opinion. Better coaching and effort will do that. As they say just like buttholes everyone has an opinion.

 

[creekdipper]

I do believe that there are unscrupulous recruiters who would use message boards to achieve their goals just like there are companies that would manipulate blogs for their own advertising ends.

:good!:

You make many good points, and I agree that the "Fire Holly" talk needs to calm down...and I have participated in talking about possible replacements largely since I'm never been sold on CHW as the right person for the head job, although I had hoped to be proven wrong. Complaining fans are still fans, and places like this & the Summit (when it was still subscription-free!) serve as a sounding board & place to vent. IMO, you're right in that the timing of discussions of coaching changes is not appropriate (one thing to say, "We need better coaching"...which can be taken several ways; something else entirely to be discussing candidates for the job (and writing off the current staff entirely).

I think your point along with others' is for many of us to back off and see how the season goes. For some of us, that may mean just not commenting at all. For others, it might mean wincing while still putting on a brave front (if play doesn't improve). In fairness, I think a lot of people have been doing that for years & have just grown weary...especially those who feel that we don't have decades left to ever see us get to a Final Four again in our lifetime. :birgits_giggle:

So everyone can take a slice of humble pie, we can all agree to try to get along & not snipe at each other, and maybe the overall tone will improve. I think you'd agree that it's fair to say that Warlick has heard plenty about alleged defects in the LV program; whether she agrees, sets out to fix the problems, and is successful is something only time will tell.

Anyway, thanks for the response.

 

[Rickster]

Good post!

Now, not to necessarily change the subject, but there are three things that I personally would like to see happen:

1. Stop collapsing perimeter defense to help the post on the dribble drive. The two post players should be enough. The collapsing wing defender seems to foul at critical times and when they don't foul, they struggle to get back out to stop the 3 ball on the kick out. I can't believe it takes three people to stop one defender.

2. Stop dribbling and passing into the teeth of the defense. I expect that the decision is motivated by the potential highlight reel play but there are two many bodies and hands to give the drive/pass a chance of success. They should never pass into a triple team. I don't think the players are being coached to do drive into the teeth of the defense. Not really comfortable about saying that for the passing though....

3. Shoot without hesitation. The inside will never open up unless there is a credible outside presence capable of hitting a good percentage of outside shots. They don't have to be 3's either. Just score half the time and play good defense.

 

[Orange Maniac]

Good post!

Now, not to necessarily change the subject, but there are three things that I personally would like to see happen:

1. Stop collapsing perimeter defense to help the post on the dribble drive. The two post players should be enough. The collapsing wing defender seems to foul at critical times and when they don't foul, they struggle to get back out to stop the 3 ball on the kick out. I can't believe it takes three people to stop one defender.

2. Stop dribbling and passing into the teeth of the defense. I expect that the decision is motivated by the potential highlight reel play but there are two many bodies and hands to give the drive/pass a chance of success. They should never pass into a triple team. I don't think the players are being coached to do drive into the teeth of the defense. Not really comfortable about saying that for the passing though....

3. Shoot without hesitation. The inside will never open up unless there is a credible outside presence capable of hitting a good percentage of outside shots. They don't have to be 3's either. Just score half the time and play good defense.

This is what the majority of people want to see but the team is not doing it. It's up to the coaches to get this out of the team and that is not what's going on at this time.

 

[teacherdean]

Are you the same person you were a year ago...a decade ago? Young people change fast especially when they leave home and may develop several personalities as they go through college while trying to determine who they really are and want to be. V

While basketball provides structure, one still has to find their way. All I am saying is that there is much greater pressure on those lady vols than most believe and while they may have been playing with each other for a while, it was not in game situations and that appears to be giving them a challenge....along with spacing and passing decisions. Different team abilities present different challenges. They will work it out without this boards advice.

It's not like this is the first time a slow start has happened and won't be the last as long as emphasis is placed on defense at the start of the season. I think that decision is the coaches prerogative and the fans just have to learn to deal with it. While it may be unsatisfying for those that need dominating wins every game, one Es elite 8 and two sweet 16s tell me that it is not a bad decision.....but then I am no one to judge Holly and her work.

While I agree with some of your points but there are signs that this program is in trouble. Can those signs be corrected, of course, but the corrections need to be made sooner rather than later. What are some of the troubling signs?

1. Coach admitting that she does not know how to correct the glaring issues on offense
2. Coach admitting that she does not practice offense that much;
3. A coach that does not have a B plan when things start to fall apart;
4. A coach that lacks the ability to recruit the program's needs;
5. Announcers, and other outsiders, wandering what in the hell has happen to Tennessee;
6. The belief that the team has become toxic and lacks chemistry; and
7. A coach who knows something is not working but keeps on doing what she is doing.

Lack of recruiting might really bit us in the ass next year. That falls squarely on the head coach and not assistants and players as does the issues mentioned previously. Let us say that Holly's plan of overcoming a lack of 2016 recruits is to go to the JC ranks, but that fails to work. In addition, four players have injuries, and one player decides to transfer. Now we are left with five able bodies.

Right now we are bailing water but the ship is starting to sink. It is time for the captain to save this potential sinking ship while we are bailing water, or be removed so another captain can save the ship and crew.

 

[Rickster]

This is what the majority of people want to see but the team is not doing it. It's up to the coaches to get this out of the team and that is not what's going on at this time.

I think a big part is the decisions being made by the players. They are the ones passing the ball and the ones who decide to give up their defensive position to help two others defend a dribble drive. I do think they are being told to get the ball inside but I don't think they are being told to force it into a triple team where there is little chance of success. I also don't think they are being told to drive into three defenders nor to take off balance shots.

I guess if one has the mentality of the "buck stops here" then coaching is responsible but I see a lot of frustration on the sidelines that tells me that the player(s) did not do what they were supposed to do.

I think there is improvement that can be (and historically has been) made but it will take some time. The only way I see that the offense can be ready at the beginning of the season is to practice it extensively. Holly and staff have decided that they want the defense to get the lions share of work (if past quotes are accurate) at the beginning of the season. They are coaching for the end of the season so the beginning looks kind of like it does now and has for years. I'm not worthy to say either is right or wrong. I just have some things that I would like to see happen just like a lot of others who post here.

 

[Rickster]

While I agree with some of your points but there are signs that this program is in trouble. Can those signs be corrected, of course, but the corrections need to be made sooner rather than later. What are some of the troubling signs?

1. Coach admitting that she does not know how to correct the glaring issues on offense
2. Coach admitting that she does not practice offense that much;
3. A coach that does not have a B plan when things start to fall apart;
4. A coach that lacks the ability to recruit the program's needs;
5. Announcers, and other outsiders, wandering what in the hell has happen to Tennessee;
6. The belief that the team has become toxic and lacks chemistry; and
7. A coach who knows something is not working but keeps on doing what she is doing.

Lack of recruiting might really bit us in the ass next year. That falls squarely on the head coach and not assistants and players as does the issues mentioned previously. Let us say that Holly's plan of overcoming a lack of 2016 recruits is to go to the JC ranks, but that fails to work. In addition, four players have injuries, and one player decides to transfer. Now we are left with five able bodies.

Right now we are bailing water but the ship is starting to sink. It is time for the captain to save this potential sinking ship while we are bailing water, or be removed so another captain can save the ship and crew.

I hesitate to say the ship is sinking or that the program is in trouble. I don't hesitate to say the team is not playing very well right now and I don't think it is any one thing. I think it is several things that are making them play the way they are not the least of which is decision making.

Some of the items on your list could be addressed by the coach to an extent but some are external and the only way to address those is to play better.

There is not a lot of love for the lady vols outside vol land. They have just been too successful, stomped too many teams, and there are those who are enjoying this start of the season just like a lot of lady vol fans would love for other successful programs to start the same way. Once again, the only way to address that is to start winning....convincingly.

 

[madtownvol]

While I agree with some of your points but there are signs that this program is in trouble. Can those signs be corrected, of course, but the corrections need to be made sooner rather than later. What are some of the troubling signs?

1. Coach admitting that she does not know how to correct the glaring issues on offense
2. Coach admitting that she does not practice offense that much;
3. A coach that does not have a B plan when things start to fall apart;
4. A coach that lacks the ability to recruit the program's needs;
5. Announcers, and other outsiders, wandering what in the hell has happen to Tennessee;
6. The belief that the team has become toxic and lacks chemistry; and
7. A coach who knows something is not working but keeps on doing what she is doing.


Right now we are bailing water but the ship is starting to sink. It is time for the captain to save this potential sinking ship while we are bailing water, or be removed so another captain can save the ship and crew.

Sinking ship is a little melodramatic. Of your seven signs of a death spiral, I get that people interpret the world in accord with their own belief system but lets break this down from a less dire perspective.

1. She actually said, she is not sure what the problem is but it is her job to to figure it out. That is standard coach speak after a poor performance. What do you want her to say. "Oh yeah, we totally know what the problem is; we just forget to tell the players before the game!"

2. Really not true. She has said that the team has emphasized defense and then at other times turned more attention to offense. For example, Draya said after the Wichita State game that they had worked a lot on shooting and offensive sets.

3. Right now, the A or B plans aren't working but that does not mean the staff is not making adjustments. In some games, when you are down to seven players saddled with foul trouble, the options are a little limited.

4. On paper, Holly has done well on recruiting except for the 2016 class. Too early to tell if it is an aberration or a new pattern. I agree that the staff needs a strong 2017 class.

5. Of course, a team that is picked to finish top 4 and struggles early is going to get press. And if the team continues going down this path, then there is a problem. But saying that the press and others are asking questions is the same thing as saying the team is not performing well. In other words, there is no more extra water on the boat from this point.

6. the belief that... Clever wording. The belief comes from unnamed sources of something supposedly said from transfer target and is now being perpetuated by those who are driving the fire Holly agenda. Yes, this is a MAJOR sign of something but perhaps not so much about LVs as some segments of the fan base who willing to accept any negative rumor as gospel because it affirms their preconceptions.


7. My gawd, you just wrote that "Holly knows something..." I have to sit down.....

 

[madtownvol]

I think a big part is the decisions being made by the players. They are the ones passing the ball and the ones who decide to give up their defensive position to help two others defend a dribble drive. I do think they are being told to get the ball inside but I don't think they are being told to force it into a triple team where there is little chance of success. I also don't think they are being told to drive into three defenders nor to take off balance shots.

I guess if one has the mentality of the "buck stops here" then coaching is responsible but I see a lot of frustration on the sidelines that tells me that the player(s) did not do what they were supposed to do.

I think there is improvement that can be (and historically has been) made but it will take some time. The only way I see that the offense can be ready at the beginning of the season is to practice it extensively. Holly and staff have decided that they want the defense to get the lions share of work (if past quotes are accurate) at the beginning of the season. They are coaching for the end of the season so the beginning looks kind of like it does now and has for years. I'm not worthy to say either is right or wrong. I just have some things that I would like to see happen just like a lot of others who post here.

For now, I am going with Maria Cornelius's assessment (who I know many on this board regard as a homer) but she contends from watching practices, that the LVs are trying to install a motion offense. That offensive scheme needs players to be on the same page in a really profound way. Owing to injuries and new players coming in, the on-floor chemistry has not formed. She is predicting that this team will look much different in the Jan-Feb stretch run. Optimistically, I hope she is correct; if not, then.....

 

[Rickster]

Sinking ship is a little melodramatic. Of your seven signs of a death spiral, I get that people interpret the world in accord with their own belief system but lets break this down from a less dire perspective.

1. She actually said, she is not sure what the problem is but it is her job to to figure it out. That is standard coach speak after a poor performance. What do you want her to say. "Oh yeah, we totally know what the problem is we just forget to tell the players before the game!"

2. Really not true. She has said that the team has emphasized defense and then at other times turned more attention to offense. For example, Draya said after the Wichita State game that they had worked a lot on shooting and offensive sets.

3. Right now, the A or B plans aren't working but that does not mean the staff is not making adjustments. IN some games, when you are down to seven players with foul trouble, the options are a little limited.

4. On paper, Holly has done well on recruiting except for the 2016 class. Too early to tell if it is an aberration or a new pattern. I agree that the staff needs a strong 2017 class.

5. Of course, a team that is picked to finish top 4 and struggles early is going to get press. And if the team continues going down this path, then there is a problem. But saying that the press and others are asking question is the same thing as saying the team is not performing well. In other words, there is no more extra water on the boat from this point.

6. the belief that... Clever wording. The belief comes from unnamed sources of something supposedly said from transfer target and is now being perpetuated by those who are driving the fire Holly agenda. Yes, this is a MAJOR sign of something but perhaps not so much about LVs as some segments of the fan base who willing to accept any negative rumor as gospel because it affirms their preconceptions.


7. My gawd, you just wrote that "Holly knows something..." I have to sit down.....

Great post

 

[Rickster]

For now, I am going with Maria Cornelius's assessment (who I know many on this board regard as a homer) but she contends from watching practices, that the LVs are trying to install a motion offense. That offense scheme needs players to be on the same page in a really profound way. Owing to injuries and new players coming in, the on-floor chemistry has not formed. She is predicting that this team will look much different in the Jan-Feb stretch run. Optimistically, I hope she is correct; if not, then.....

That explains a lot about the offensive end as a motion offense requires impeccable timing. I like that they are changing up the offense. I think one issue they have had in previous years is that they appear too predictable.

 

[gule]

Dang it, who spilled the beans?

motion offense, bwhahahahhaa!

 

[DeerPark12]

Oh, and btw, I'm sure you didn't know this. Since you dont like hearing facts. Pat Summitt is still heavily involved in the Women's B-ball program and can be around in practices and assist holly. So I'm sure holly is not the only person doing things.

While I agree with many of your points in this thread, Pat is not at all involved in the program anymore.

She has attended a few practices and several games, but she is not in any way capable of offering any basketball knowledge to the program anymore.

 

[boxerpupsrcool]

So the coaches are working on a motion offense?? In theory, it seems like a good fit for this team and a good tactic to beat the zone which has been such an issue for us. I remember Bob Knight ran it to perfection with his Indiana teams. Hmmm we will see I guess..gives me a bit more hope anyway..

 

[boxerpupsrcool]

I'm no offensive basketball guru, but doesn't a motion offense need players to hit a good percentage of their three point shots to be effective?? We aren't exactly a great three point shooting team, so I'm trying to figure out how this motion offense will help us..Somebody with better knowledge of basketball can probably explain it

 

[LVJeff]

I'm no offensive basketball guru, but doesn't a motion offense need players to hit a good percentage of their three point shots to be effective?? We aren't exactly a great three point shooting team, so I'm trying to figure out how this motion offense will help us..Somebody with better knowledge of basketball can probably explain it

Players move to open spaces on the floor. It's kind of like pickup basketball in a way - spread out and run to an open area of the floor and take the first good shot. You don't have to be a good three point shooting team but it sure helps. This offense works real well against zones but also works against man-to-man defenses if the offense is patient. The caveat is that the timing of player movement is critical. Rebounding can also suffer.

I don't know all the sets very well so it's hard for me to tell but at times the LV's have run a 3-out and 2-in set against the zone (this is why you sometimes see Russell out at the three point line). A 3-out and 2-in puts a premium on the three perimeter players - as you suggest in your post, these players must hit outside shots as it's doubtful the 2 "in" or post players are going to hit outside shots.

At other times they have a run a 1-3-1 offense against the zone. This worked against Texas in the first half when Diamond hit two of her threes.

Most of the LV opponents such as UTC have run a 4-out and 1-in set or a 5-out set. I haven't seen the LV's run either of these sets but I may have missed it. They have run 4 guards with 1 post but I don't think it was a 4-out motion. I could be wrong.

Motion offenses are often used when a team has no true post player.

Sorry for the long response. I've been around long enough to have figured some of this out or heard some coach speak on it.

 

[InVOLuntary]

Holly is never going to get it done. In sports you're either progressing or regressing. The. lady Vols are regressing. Some coaches have "it". It's obvious to me Holly doesn't. It's just how far do you let it slip before you fix it.

 

[Voldon18]

Doesn't a motion offense require one key component: MOTION. I'm seeing four players stand around while one dribbles into trouble or throws up a brick.

Also, that motion should never call for a 6-6 center to live around the perimeter, ever. It's not like Russell is finding the low post when she possesses the ball around the foul or 3-point lines. Holly, her assistants and unfortunately the players are lost on offense and uninspired on defense.

There's no defense of Holly's coaching, period. She's clueless!

 

[PineyBluff Vol]

I'm no offensive basketball guru, but doesn't a motion offense need players to hit a good percentage of their three point shots to be effective?? We aren't exactly a great three point shooting team, so I'm trying to figure out how this motion offense will help us..Somebody with better knowledge of basketball can probably explain it

Here you go Holly, maybe this will help...https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...C7DD5AB47E862BDFE673C7DD5AB47E862BDFE&fsscr=0

 

[Rickster]

Doesn't a motion offense require one key component: MOTION. Yes

I'm seeing four players stand around while one dribbles into trouble or throws up a brick. Wish I could say that is new.

Also, that motion should never call for a 6-6 center to live around the perimeter, ever. It's not like Russell is finding the low post when she possesses the ball around the foul or 3-point lines. I believe the point of flashing her high is to draw the center out of the lane and make it easier to hit Graves in the post. Unfortunately, it aren't working. I think it works better if she can hit from there otherwise a good defense will not honor the threat./QUOTE]

 

[Rickster]

Doesn't a motion offense require one key component: MOTION. Yes

I'm seeing four players stand around while one dribbles into trouble or throws up a brick. Wish I could say that is new.

Also, that motion should never call for a 6-6 center to live around the perimeter, ever. It's not like Russell is finding the low post when she possesses the ball around the foul or 3-point lines. I believe the point of flashing her high is to draw the center out of the lane and make it easier to hit Graves in the post. Unfortunately, it aren't working. I think it works better if she can hit from there otherwise a good defense will not honor the threat./QUOTE]

Well, that didn't work too well.

 

[PineyBluff Vol]

Doesn't a motion offense require one key component: MOTION. Yes

I'm seeing four players stand around while one dribbles into trouble or throws up a brick. Wish I could say that is new.

Also, that motion should never call for a 6-6 center to live around the perimeter, ever. It's not like Russell is finding the low post when she possesses the ball around the foul or 3-point lines. I believe the point of flashing her high is to draw the center out of the lane and make it easier to hit Graves in the post. Unfortunately, it aren't working. I think it works better if she can hit from there otherwise a good defense will not honor the threat./QUOTE]

 

[IPleadInsanity]

Its obvious we have a one trick pony coach offensively. This is an example of players skills not fitting the offense they being asked to run. It blows up every time and turns into one on one basketball. The players either can't run the offense or won't run the offense, either way its on the coach.

 

[LVJeff]

Doesn't a motion offense require one key component: MOTION...

Also, that motion should never call for a 6-6 center to live around the perimeter...

Agreed on your first point. At times they seem to be setting up in a motion alignment, but then nobody moves, so I'm not sure what they're doing. If they are running any kind of a motion offense, the players are not moving in synchronization with each other, which is the most important aspect of a motion offense.

Your second point is technically not true. A 5 out motion offense would have everybody out at the three-point line. Now, that's not what Tennessee is running that I have ever seen. A 4 out and 1 in alignment also will occasionally bring the post player out to the three-point line. Tennessee has been in this alignment a few times from what I can tell.