Holy Trinity Discussion

[Orangeslice13]

Rules...ha.

When it gets canned like that is why we have so many problems, especially in discussions.

One will always fail rules. One will always be depressed cause they break rules.

Live by faith. Enjoy freedom by grace.

Yes as we should…..but as James says “faith without works is death”.
What rules should we follow? The ones spelled out by the creator as “this is how you should live “ or do we pick and choose because we say “we believe in Jesus” so the blessings of Torah and pleasing G-d (also a big part of the law) just aren’t important enough anymore. We’re saved so we just do as we please?

 

[GVF]

Yes as we should…..but as James says “faith without works is death”.
What rules should we follow? The ones spelled out by the creator as “this is how you should live “ or do we pick and choose because we say “we believe in Jesus” so the blessings of Torah and pleasing G-d (also a big part of the law) just aren’t important enough anymore. We’re saved so we just do as we please?

I think you'd agree many get too legalistic with the do's and dont's and people spend their entire lives focusing on do this, don't do that...can you read hte signs...

Get so caught up in "rules" they don't understand grace and the freedom in God that gives you, and ridding yourself of hte bondage of guilt so that you can enjoy faith with works.

My take on works is that it is not a scorecard, but a desire to do for others "naturally" because of your faith. Sure, works can be a simple task like pushing an old lady's buggy to her car for her...but because you just did it, not because you checked off a to-do list. It can also be a smile, a kind word, whatever. I don't like saying I've done this or that, but as an example I had a direct report one time ask me if I went to church. I'd not brought it up cause of work place "rules", however I could answer questions. She said she told her husband she was sure I did because of how I spoke to and treated them. And I got anything I need from my people. I view works as any tangible or instrinsic "action" by which you are known to others. It's just what you do. I never think I have to do this, this, and this today cause I'm behind this week on my works quota.

Still gonna sin or fall short? Sure. Unavoidable. But, my goal is to be closer to where where "works" is an inherent trait, not a job.

 

[GVF]

It comes down to….for me…..why not celebrate what Messiah did on the Holiday we are asked to celebrate by G-d as opposed to ignoring it and making one of our own and incorporating some horrible pagan practices into it and calling it Easter. I mean we know how much G-d loves it when we include paganism and say it’s for him. He was really excited about that golden calf…”this is YAWH” incident.

lol

Completely agree with that take. And I think celebrating atleast once in your life in that fashion would be very educational from a biblical history perspective at the least.

Funny you mention it that way. The CoC congregation we attended locally had a huge "Early Church" style Easter celebration where an entire wing of the building was a stage set in different rooms and you toured the early church thing like you say with live actors and such. Even down to eating foods you might have encountered then. THis is a very simplistic explanation, mind you, but you get the gist. We did leave out hte easter bunny for that though.

 

[GVF]

It comes down to….for me…..why not celebrate what Messiah did on the Holiday we are asked to celebrate by G-d as opposed to ignoring it and making one of our own and incorporating some horrible pagan practices into it and calling it Easter. I mean we know how much G-d loves it when we include paganism and say it’s for him. He was really excited about that golden calf…”this is YAWH” incident.

lol

You could use red dye #3 for you door columns out front, and have a very humble, yet powerful teaching moment with the kids, or friends.

 

[Orangeslice13]

I think you'd agree many get too legalistic with the do's and dont's and people spend their entire lives focusing on do this, don't do that...can you read hte signs...

Get so caught up in "rules" they don't understand grace and the freedom in God that gives you, and ridding yourself of hte bondage of guilt so that you can enjoy faith with works.

My take on works is that it is not a scorecard, but a desire to do for others "naturally" because of your faith. Sure, works can be a simple task like pushing an old lady's buggy to her car for her...but because you just did it, not because you checked off a to-do list. It can also be a smile, a kind word, whatever. I don't like saying I've done this or that, but as an example I had a direct report one time ask me if I went to church. I'd not brought it up cause of work place "rules", however I could answer questions. She said she told her husband she was sure I did because of how I spoke to and treated them. And I got anything I need from my people. I view works as any tangible or instrinsic "action" by which you are known to others. It's just what you do. I never think I have to do this, this, and this today cause I'm behind this week on my works quota.

Still gonna sin or fall short? Sure. Unavoidable. But, my goal is to be closer to where where "works" is an inherent trait, not a job.

That’s the rub isn’t it.
There are a lot more people walking around, steeling, cheating on their wives, talking bad about everyone they know thinking they’re all good because they “believe in Jesus”.

Let’s say hypothetically that baptism is the only law of G-d and he says it should be done every week there will be people thinking that earns their salvation. I know people who believe that now. (My kids went to a COC school). There are people that say “I believe in Jesus but I’m not doing that. It’s not worth the effort or I just don’t want too. I know those people too. Both think they’re saved pointing at the others saying that guy doesn’t get it.
But it’s clear from the rest of scripture that G-d is concerned about your heart (he is) psalms 119 is a pitcher of what G-d wants. In our hypothetical, G-d doesn’t actually care (in terms of salvation) if you do your baptism or not. He wants you to want too. That should be a test for everyone who calls themselves believers. Do you want to please G-d? Do you want to be baptized? If you don’t want to then you might as well not do it because it’s of no value to you.

You know there’s always scripture for my beliefs.

Isiah 64
For from days of old they have not heard or perceived by ear,
Nor has the eye seen a God besides You,
Who acts in behalf of one who waits for Him.
5 You meet him who rejoices in doing righteousness,
Who remembers You in Your ways.
Behold, You were angry, for we sinned,
We continued in [c]our sins for a long time;
Yet shall we be saved?
6 For all of us have become like one who is unclean,
And all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment;
And all of us wither like a leaf,
And our wrongdoings, like the wind, take us away.

Isiah says all your good deeds don’t save you.

 

[Orangeslice13]

Completely agree with that take. And I think celebrating atleast once in your life in that fashion would be very educational from a biblical history perspective at the least.

Funny you mention it that way. The CoC congregation we attended locally had a huge "Early Church" style Easter celebration where an entire wing of the building was a stage set in different rooms and you toured the early church thing like you say with live actors and such. Even down to eating foods you might have encountered then. THis is a very simplistic explanation, mind you, but you get the gist. We did leave out hte easter bunny for that though.

There pagan fertility bunny never gets left out.
Lol

But seriously
We can get into the significance of Passover if you like. I believe most Christians have no idea how important it really is. Seeing how Jesus atoned us on Passover and was likely born on Passover it might be significant.

 

[Matt2496]

Did the original "What Does the Bible Say" thread disappear? There were some good discussions on there.

 

[Orangeslice13]

Did the original "What Does the Bible Say" thread disappear? There were some good discussions on there.

As long as certain people don’t show up it remains like this discussion has been (for the most part).

 

[VOLLeeann]

Why is the Holy Trinity discussion in the Politics forum?

 

[GVF]

That’s the rub isn’t it.
There are a lot more people walking around, steeling, cheating on their wives, talking bad about everyone they know thinking they’re all good because they “believe in Jesus”.

Let’s say hypothetically that baptism is the only law of G-d and he says it should be done every week there will be people thinking that earns their salvation. I know people who believe that now. (My kids went to a COC school). There are people that say “I believe in Jesus but I’m not doing that. It’s not worth the effort or I just don’t want too. I know those people too. Both think they’re saved pointing at the others saying that guy doesn’t get it.
But it’s clear from the rest of scripture that G-d is concerned about your heart (he is) psalms 119 is a pitcher of what G-d wants. In our hypothetical, G-d doesn’t actually care (in terms of salvation) if you do your baptism or not. He wants you to want too. That should be a test for everyone who calls themselves believers. Do you want to please G-d? Do you want to be baptized? If you don’t want to then you might as well not do it because it’s of no value to you.

You know there’s always scripture for my beliefs.

Isiah 64
For from days of old they have not heard or perceived by ear,
Nor has the eye seen a God besides You,
Who acts in behalf of one who waits for Him.
5 You meet him who rejoices in doing righteousness,
Who remembers You in Your ways.
Behold, You were angry, for we sinned,
We continued in [c]our sins for a long time;
Yet shall we be saved?
6 For all of us have become like one who is unclean,
And all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment;
And all of us wither like a leaf,
And our wrongdoings, like the wind, take us away.

Isiah says all your good deeds don’t save you.

God did make us so that we would have to want to. He made us to choose life or death. Does not infer however that baptism is not one of the paths along with faith. Too many inferences of the act of baptism as well as the path of faith. Especially in Acts.

 

[GVF]

There pagan fertility bunny never gets left out.
Lol

But seriously
We can get into the significance of Passover if you like. I believe most Christians have no idea how important it really is. Seeing how Jesus atoned us on Passover and was likely born on Passover it might be significant.

Switch gears. You and my other theologians like bamawriter.

Genesis 3:24-16. Up to that point there Adam, eve, Cain, Abel. That are mentioned. Cain killed Abel. Cain was fears for his life. God marked him that no one would kill him. He was sent out amongst the wanderers of the east. Likely somewhere in Arabia where nomads were by that description (in Torah just to please you).

The question is where did all those others come from.

 

[Orangeslice13]

Why is the Holy Trinity discussion in the Politics forum?

Religion is politics.

 

[Orangeslice13]

God did make us so that we would have to want to. He made us to choose life or death. Does not infer however that baptism is not one of the paths along with faith. Too many inferences of the act of baptism as well as the path of faith. Especially in Acts.

You have the choice to be his people or not.
You love G-d or you don’t.
Baptism is the same as it’s been since the beginning. Just another part of the law. If you did it to avoid hell then it was as worthless as any other act of the law done for the wrong reasons. Believing G-d is the only thing that saves you.
Scripture from the beginning has been abundantly clear on that.
Again Psalms 119 is the best picture given of a heart for G-d

 

[Orangeslice13]

Switch gears. You and my other theologians like bamawriter.

Genesis 3:24-16. Up to that point there Adam, eve, Cain, Abel. That are mentioned. Cain killed Abel. Cain was fears for his life. God marked him that no one would kill him. He was sent out amongst the wanderers of the east. Likely somewhere in Arabia where nomads were by that description (in Torah just to please you).

The question is where did all those others come from.

If we’re talking about a literal Adam and Eve and their descendants (which I don’t have an opinion on) then we take what is written and what logically makes sense. If they Adam and Eve lived 1000 years and had four children. Starting at 20. Their children had 4 each starting at 20 and so on. It’s not long before there are a crapload of people. It stops being “eeeewww” pretty quickly.

lol

 

[Septic]

first, how did I white wash the atrocities? I said the Catholic church was responsible for the worst actions of the two. you clearly aren't reading what I am saying and are just trolling.

the same al qaeda that we funded against the Russians?

we made ourselves the target because we were involved all over the middle east. the middle east could have been filled with Christians, and our same involvement would have generated similar results.

we aren't the boogie many because we are quasi-Christian nation. we are the boogie man because we keep effing with our people.

Among other reasons - the U.S. became a target to Al-Qaeda through our unwavering support of Israel, not because we were just strong arming our way around the M.E. haphazardly.

But no, you're right.

It was just coincidence that Al-Qaeda was a Muslim group that was looking to rid the world of the profane influence of the West and replace governments with fundamentalist Islamic regimes.

I'm sure that radicalized Islam had nothing to do with the 9/11 attacks. Just a coincidence all the attackers were all AQ. Also just a coincidence that ISIS rose from their ashes. Those guys are tied together by a common want for a better life for their kids and support for the local athletic club, definitely not on a common belief in Islamic zealotry.

Solid take.

But seriously, you're absolutely attempting to whitewash 'religious' atrocities through gaslighting like this. Millions have been victims of violence throughout history due to religious exclusivism which inevitably fosters violence against those who are considered outsiders.

Maybe you aren't comfortable with christians being lumped in to the same category as these guys? I don't know. You're smarter than this, very weird place to plant your flag.

 

[Ritzwatch]

If we’re talking about a literal Adam and Eve and their descendants (which I don’t have an opinion on) then we take what is written and what logically makes sense. If they Adam and Eve lived 1000 years and had four children. Starting at 20. Their children had 4 each starting at 20 and so on. It’s not long before there are a crapload of people. It stops being “eeeewww” pretty quickly.

lol

Yes!!!

About time somebody said it.

I’ve got some smoking HOT cousins! I’m all for it!

Edit: Is it too late to retract this statement?

 

[Orangeslice13]

Yes!!!

About time somebody said it.

I’ve got some smoking HOT cousins! I’m all for it!

Edit: Is it too late to retract this statement?

Lol
I’ve never been one to ignore the elephant in the room

 

[Orangeslice13]

Switch gears. You and my other theologians like bamawriter.

Genesis 3:24-16. Up to that point there Adam, eve, Cain, Abel. That are mentioned. Cain killed Abel. Cain was fears for his life. God marked him that no one would kill him. He was sent out amongst the wanderers of the east. Likely somewhere in Arabia where nomads were by that description (in Torah just to please you).

The question is where did all those others come from.

You know…….i had my DNA tested once. 23 and me. The results were that I’m mostly Jewish. Shocking I know. But the part that applies to your question is that I learned something in the process.

Did y’all know that every living person on this planet has a common ancestor? According to DNA research ereryDamnBody comes from one female ancestor 150,000 years ago in the Ethiopian area.

Interesting

 

[GVF]

You know…….i had my DNA tested once. 23 and me. The results were that I’m mostly Jewish. Shocking I know. But the part that applies to your question is that I learned something in the process.

Did y’all know that every living person on this planet has a common ancestor? According to DNA research ereryDamnBody comes from one female ancestor 150,000 years ago in the Ethiopian area.

Interesting

Eve was a busy woman maybe.

 

[Orangeslice13]

Eve was a busy woman maybe.

In the other post I gave her credit for 4 kids. In 1000 years it could have been in the hundreds. I read a book once where a guy did the math. But just on 4 children there would have been more than 1000000 people in her lifetime

 

[Orangeburst]

In the other post I gave her credit for 4 kids. In 1000 years it could have been in the hundreds. I read a book once where a guy did the math. But just on 4 children there would have been more than 1000000 people in her lifetime

that the Travis Henry tree?

 

[Orangeslice13]

that the Travis Henry tree?

Maybe.
I’ll have to look it up.

 

[Orangeslice13]

Maybe.
I’ll have to look it up.

Yes I got the joke

 

[Orangeslice13]

The friend I mentioned, maybe in this thread, has 10 children. I once told him “where is say be fruitful and multiply in the Bible……it didn’t mean just you”

 

[OrangeTsar]

Religion is politics.

Unfortunately all too true