Holy Trinity Discussion

#54
#54
volfanhill said:
Everyone just ignoring a very large number of people who call themselves Christian's don't believe in the trinity?
Click to expand...
What do you mean by "ignoring?" There is a huge chunk of self-proclaimed Believers that say they don't believe in many of the Bible's teachings. There is a poll that reports those stats, but i don't remember the name of it.

None of that changes the fact that there is Truth and that His Word is complete and unalterable.
 
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#55
#55
VOLS INC. said:
This is blatantly false. What you described is Modalism. Not Biblical Christianity.


Please stop embarrassing yourself.
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Ha ha! Spot on. The Trinity is a mystery that cannot be grasped by the human mind. Your post reminded me of this absolute gem from one of my favorite YouTube channels
 
#56
#56
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
No other religion has a tough time explaining this. Islam and Judaism say there's one God. No other parts or essences to God that makes him multiple people. Hinduism and older polytheist religions say there are many Gods. Why is Christianity the only religion where the concept of God is complicated or difficult to explain?

Either Jesus was involved in the horrific acts ordered in the Old Testament or Christianity is a religion of multiple gods. You can't logically have it any other way.
Click to expand...
sure they do have a tough time explaining it. they need multiple writings, the teachings of learned individuals, various prophets, and so forth to explain what God means to them.

The Jews have several "books" about it in their Torah, all of their rabbi's teachings, and so forth. And you really need to go back to the Hebrew versions and read up on the difference between El and Yahweh, especially within the context of the regional religions. their monotheism isn't as simple as they want you to believe, and it has evolved over time.
Hinduism has the Vedas, Dharmastras, and several other writings. Hinduism is a mix of mono and polytheism, so again you clearly don't know what you are talking about. they believe in just about everything. There are multiple gods, there is one god, there is no god, the self is "god like" all of that fits under Hinduism.

again you paint a black and white understanding about what some writing means trying to claim its the only "logical" answer when there are plenty of other options. Those stories about the Jews being "ordered" to commit those atrocities could just be cover. every religion uses revisionism to explain away their issues. my Catholic religion is probably the most well known for this, but every single one does it. and that cover up explains a good bit about why Jesus needed to come down to earth. the Word got twisted/misunderstood/fragmented/badly translated/lost to dogma, and Christ had to come down to literally show us the way. Not saying the Jews got it 100% wrong, or that any Christian has it dead set right either. But what you claim as a change in messaging between Old and New may just be a change in the way the message is understood, but not a change to the message itself.
 
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#57
#57
Vol8188 said:
Y’all are arguing with a guy who believes black people were here before Columbus and that the Hebrew people are/were black. He buys into every YouTube/Facebook pseudo scientist he can find.

His views could best be described as Ancient Aliens for black people
Click to expand...

With regard to the color of the Ancient Hebrews the argument that they were black is based on the Bible and known historical record. According to the Bible, both Moses and Joseph were mistaken for Egyptians. Thus we can logically conclude that there were no visible physical differences between the Ancient Hebrews and the Ancient Egyptians during the time they were in Egypt. We also know from the Bible that the Ancient Egyptians were considered one of the sons of Ham (father of the black race) along with Kush (biblical name for Ancient Nubia). We also know from the accounts of Ancient Greek historians like Herodutus that the Ancient Egyptians were described as having "black skin and wooly hair" like the Ancient Nubians (aka Ethiopians to the Ancient Greeks). So if the Ancient Egyptians were black according to the Bible and historical record and if Hebrews like Moses and Joseph were mistaken for being Egyptians rather than Israelites then it must logically follow that the Ancient Hebrews were also black.

With regard to black people preceding Columbus in the Americas, the evidence is numerous. I'll start with the most scientifically accepted piece of evidence. LUZIA: America’s OLDEST Skeleton is a “Black” WOMAN

agencia.fapesp.br

The new face of Luzia and the Lagoa Santa people

Study by 72 researchers from eight countries concludes that the Lagoa Santa people are descendants of Clovis culture migrants from North America. Distinctly African features attributed to Luzia were wrong.
agencia.fapesp.br agencia.fapesp.br

The oldest human remains found in the Americas is the fossil of Luzia woman. Found in Brazil, the anthropologists that found the remains said that the skull didn't look like the skulls of the Indians found in the region. But instead of looked like the skull of a negroid woman. So according to mainstream science the oldest human fossil found in the Americas is that of a black woman.

Now the second piece of evidence that shows black people were in the Americas comes to Christopher Columbus own journal of his second voyage to the Americas. In modern day Dominican Republic/Haiti he said that the Native Indians told him: “Black-skinned people had come from the southeast in boats, trading in gold-tipped spears.”

www.sun-sentinel.com

SCHOLAR: COLUMBUS’ JOURNAL BEARS EVIDENCE OF BLACKS IN AMERICAS

FORT LAUDERDALE — Controversial scholar Ivan Van Sertima, who theorizes that Africans came to the Americas before Columbus, discovered Fort Lauderdale on Thursday. Van Sertima was given a rec…
www.sun-sentinel.com www.sun-sentinel.com

And if you want even more evidence there are the Olmec heads which were found in Mexico which are the remains of the oldest civilization in the Americas. This is how those heads looked.

1736373015720.jpeg


Looks like a black man if you ask me. And when they were first discovered the earliest Europeans thought the same thing. And because I know yall will lie to yourselves and act like this isn't clearly a black head. Let's look at how the back of the head looks.

1736373160600.jpeg

Yes you're seeing that right. It's braids. The Olmec heads have braided hair in the back. So you're gonna tell me these heads with broad flat noses, full thick lips, and braided hair ain't depicting black people?


When you put all the evidence together from the earliest fossil remains of Luzia woman to the earliest civilization in the Olmecs, and Columbus own account its obvious black people were in the Americas before Columbus.
 
#58
#58
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
With regard to the color of the Ancient Hebrews the argument that they were black is based on the Bible and known historical record. According to the Bible, both Moses and Joseph were mistaken for Egyptians. Thus we can logically conclude that there were no visible physical differences between the Ancient Hebrews and the Ancient Egyptians during the time they were in Egypt. We also know from the Bible that the Ancient Egyptians were considered one of the sons of Ham (father of the black race) along with Kush (biblical name for Ancient Nubia). We also know from the accounts of Ancient Greek historians like Herodutus that the Ancient Egyptians were described as having "black skin and wooly hair" like the Ancient Nubians (aka Ethiopians to the Ancient Greeks). So if the Ancient Egyptians were black according to the Bible and historical record and if Hebrews like Moses and Joseph were mistaken for being Egyptians rather than Israelites then it must logically follow that the Ancient Hebrews were also black.

With regard to black people preceding Columbus in the Americas, the evidence is numerous. I'll start with the most scientifically accepted piece of evidence. LUZIA: America’s OLDEST Skeleton is a “Black” WOMAN

agencia.fapesp.br

The new face of Luzia and the Lagoa Santa people

Study by 72 researchers from eight countries concludes that the Lagoa Santa people are descendants of Clovis culture migrants from North America. Distinctly African features attributed to Luzia were wrong.
agencia.fapesp.br agencia.fapesp.br

The oldest human remains found in the Americas is the fossil of Luzia woman. Found in Brazil, the anthropologists that found the remains said that the skull didn't look like the skulls of the Indians found in the region. But instead of looked like the skull of a negroid woman. So according to mainstream science the oldest human fossil found in the Americas is that of a black woman.

Now the second piece of evidence that shows black people were in the Americas comes to Christopher Columbus own journal of his second voyage to the Americas. In modern day Dominican Republic/Haiti he said that the Native Indians told him: “Black-skinned people had come from the southeast in boats, trading in gold-tipped spears.”

www.sun-sentinel.com

SCHOLAR: COLUMBUS’ JOURNAL BEARS EVIDENCE OF BLACKS IN AMERICAS

FORT LAUDERDALE — Controversial scholar Ivan Van Sertima, who theorizes that Africans came to the Americas before Columbus, discovered Fort Lauderdale on Thursday. Van Sertima was given a rec…
www.sun-sentinel.com www.sun-sentinel.com

And if you want even more evidence there are the Olmec heads which were found in Mexico which are the remains of the oldest civilization in the Americas. This is how those heads looked.

View attachment 713080


Looks like a black man if you ask me. And when they were first discovered the earliest Europeans thought the same thing. And because I know yall will lie to yourselves and act like this isn't clearly a black head. Let's look at how the back of the head looks.

View attachment 713081

Yes you're seeing that right. It's braids. The Olmec heads have braided hair in the back. So you're gonna tell me these heads with broad flat noses, full thick lips, and braided hair ain't depicting black people?


When you put all the evidence together from the earliest fossil remains of Luzia woman to the earliest civilization in the Olmecs, and Columbus own account its obvious black people were in the Americas before Columbus.
Click to expand...

I present to you above, exhibit A. As I said….Ancient Aliens for black people.
 
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#59
#59
Vol8188 said:
I present to you above, exhibit A. As I said….Ancient Aliens for black people.
Click to expand...

All my claims are supported by primary source evidence. You can go and read the Bible yourself and see what I said is true. You can look at the Olmec heads yourself. You can also read Columbus own journal for yourself. There's no trust me bro here. Nor am I asking you to take leaps of faith. It's literally as simple as look at the primary source materials for yourself.

This sounds fantastical to you because you're unaware of the evidence. I too thought like you before I started doing something called "reading". I would suggest you look into it.
 
#60
#60
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
With regard to the color of the Ancient Hebrews the argument that they were black is based on the Bible and known historical record. According to the Bible, both Moses and Joseph were mistaken for Egyptians. Thus we can logically conclude that there were no visible physical differences between the Ancient Hebrews and the Ancient Egyptians during the time they were in Egypt. We also know from the Bible that the Ancient Egyptians were considered one of the sons of Ham (father of the black race) along with Kush (biblical name for Ancient Nubia). We also know from the accounts of Ancient Greek historians like Herodutus that the Ancient Egyptians were described as having "black skin and wooly hair" like the Ancient Nubians (aka Ethiopians to the Ancient Greeks). So if the Ancient Egyptians were black according to the Bible and historical record and if Hebrews like Moses and Joseph were mistaken for being Egyptians rather than Israelites then it must logically follow that the Ancient Hebrews were also black.

With regard to black people preceding Columbus in the Americas, the evidence is numerous. I'll start with the most scientifically accepted piece of evidence. LUZIA: America’s OLDEST Skeleton is a “Black” WOMAN

agencia.fapesp.br

The new face of Luzia and the Lagoa Santa people

Study by 72 researchers from eight countries concludes that the Lagoa Santa people are descendants of Clovis culture migrants from North America. Distinctly African features attributed to Luzia were wrong.
agencia.fapesp.br agencia.fapesp.br

The oldest human remains found in the Americas is the fossil of Luzia woman. Found in Brazil, the anthropologists that found the remains said that the skull didn't look like the skulls of the Indians found in the region. But instead of looked like the skull of a negroid woman. So according to mainstream science the oldest human fossil found in the Americas is that of a black woman.

Now the second piece of evidence that shows black people were in the Americas comes to Christopher Columbus own journal of his second voyage to the Americas. In modern day Dominican Republic/Haiti he said that the Native Indians told him: “Black-skinned people had come from the southeast in boats, trading in gold-tipped spears.”

www.sun-sentinel.com

SCHOLAR: COLUMBUS’ JOURNAL BEARS EVIDENCE OF BLACKS IN AMERICAS

FORT LAUDERDALE — Controversial scholar Ivan Van Sertima, who theorizes that Africans came to the Americas before Columbus, discovered Fort Lauderdale on Thursday. Van Sertima was given a rec…
www.sun-sentinel.com www.sun-sentinel.com

And if you want even more evidence there are the Olmec heads which were found in Mexico which are the remains of the oldest civilization in the Americas. This is how those heads looked.

View attachment 713080


Looks like a black man if you ask me. And when they were first discovered the earliest Europeans thought the same thing. And because I know yall will lie to yourselves and act like this isn't clearly a black head. Let's look at how the back of the head looks.

View attachment 713081

Yes you're seeing that right. It's braids. The Olmec heads have braided hair in the back. So you're gonna tell me these heads with broad flat noses, full thick lips, and braided hair ain't depicting black people?


When you put all the evidence together from the earliest fossil remains of Luzia woman to the earliest civilization in the Olmecs, and Columbus own account its obvious black people were in the Americas before Columbus.
Click to expand...
King David was a ruddy pale skinned red head dude.
According to Torah
 
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#63
#63
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
All my claims are supported by primary source evidence. You can go and read the Bible yourself and see what I said is true. You can look at the Olmec heads yourself. You can also read Columbus own journal for yourself. There's no trust me bro here. Nor am I asking you to take leaps of faith. It's literally as simple as look at the primary source materials for yourself.

This sounds fantastical to you because you're unaware of the evidence. I too thought like you before I started doing something called "reading". I would suggest you look into it.
Click to expand...

Your evidence is trash, honestly. “They have braids!”-lmao obviously only black people have ever had braids right?

As is your definition of black that seems to include everyone who isn’t European.

You throw out too much trash evidence to actually take the time to debunk all of it (they have braids! The oldest skeleton was described as black when the actual descriptions said Asian, etc). It’s too much to take the time with.

So the best I can do is mock, because this is literally the same tactic as Ancient Aliens.
 
#64
#64
Orangeslice13 said:
The ancient Egyptian temple has drawings on the walls that show the Jewish people as yellow causation and olive skin people
Click to expand...

This is bs. There's not a single piece of evidence in Ancient Egypt that a people called "Jews" "Hebrews" or "Israelites" were ever there. What you're probably alluding to are depictions of Asiatics like the Hyksos who invaded Egypt during the Second Intermediate Period. Hyksos - Wikipedia

There were definitely non-black foreigners in Egypt going back thousands of years. However, those people were never described or called Egyptian. They were despised by the Ancient Egyptians and always viewed as foreigners.

The only evidence we have of the Ancient Hebrews being in Egypt comes from the Bible. And there is no evidence they are the Hyksos who invaded Egypt during the Second Intermediate Period.
 
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#65
#65
Vol8188 said:
Your evidence is trash, honestly. “They have braids!”-lmao obviously only black people have ever had braids right?

As is your definition of black that seems to include everyone who isn’t European.

You throw out too much trash evidence to actually take the time to debunk all of it (they have braids! The oldest skeleton was described as black when the actual descriptions said Asian, etc). It’s too much to take the time with.

So the best I can do is mock, because this is literally the same tactic as Ancient Aliens.
Click to expand...

It's not just braids. It's the combination of all the features from the broad flat nose to the thick full lips. When you add that to the braids it's pretty obvious that what is being depicted is a black man because only black people have those COMBINATION of features.

At the very least you have to be open to the possibility that the Olmec heads are depictions of black people. Because to act like it's an insane theory to presume those are the features of black people shows you're more motivated by what the evidence implies rather than taking the evidence for what it is. You object to the conclusion that black people were in the Americas before Columbus so you'll just deny what your eyes are telling you because of the conclusion it implies. That's not how objective truth is ultimately found.
 
#68
#68
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
It's not just braids. It's the combination of all the features from the broad flat nose to the thick full lips. When you add that to the braids it's pretty obvious that what is being depicted is a black man because only black people have those COMBINATION of features.

At the very least you have to be open to the possibility that the Olmec heads are depictions of black people. Because to act like it's an insane theory to presume those are the features of black people shows you're more motivated by what the evidence implies rather than taking the evidence for what it is. You object to the conclusion that black people were in the Americas before Columbus so you'll just deny what your eyes are telling you because of the conclusion it implies. That's not how objective truth is ultimately found.
Click to expand...

You need real evidence to draw such a bold conclusion. Not “I think this statue looks black!” or “someone told Columbus they saw a black man!”. I find stories of people throughout history claiming they saw aliens, space ships, etc. That’s why what you’re doing is the same tactic as Ancient Aliens, just for black people. “Hey look this statue looks like a space ship” just replace space ship with “black man”

Your problem is you attempt to expand black to include everyone who isn’t white. Last time we went down this road you tried proclaiming numerous Asian populations were black. The bones you mentioned in South America being a prime example of this. “Mainstream historians” you claimed called them black. In fact, they called them Asian. You do the same with your Americas claim in general. You’re attempting to take people of Asian decent and proclaim “black!”. It’s nonsense

If you had DNA showing me a skeleton in America from x number of years ago that was closer related to Africans of that time, I’d agree with you. But heresay from hundreds of years ago nor your interpretation of the ethnicity of a statue are not the level of evidence I’d need for such a claim.
 
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#69
#69
Vol8188 said:
Your evidence is trash, honestly. “They have braids!”-lmao obviously only black people have ever had braids right?

As is your definition of black that seems to include everyone who isn’t European.

You throw out too much trash evidence to actually take the time to debunk all of it (they have braids! The oldest skeleton was described as black when the actual descriptions said Asian, etc). It’s too much to take the time with.

So the best I can do is mock, because this is literally the same tactic as Ancient Aliens.
Click to expand...
This is at least the 3rd time he's waved his Olmeccian cult flag. He's the 50 First Dates of biased arguments.
 
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#70
#70
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
This is bs. There's not a single piece of evidence in Ancient Egypt that a people called "Jews" "Hebrews" or "Israelites" were ever there. What you're probably alluding to are depictions of Asiatics like the Hyksos who invaded Egypt during the Second Intermediate Period. Hyksos - Wikipedia

There were definitely non-black foreigners in Egypt going back thousands of years. However, those people were never described or called Egyptian. They were despised by the Ancient Egyptians and always viewed as foreigners.

The only evidence we have of the Ancient Hebrews being in Egypt comes from the Bible. And there is no evidence they are the Hyksos who invaded Egypt during the Second Intermediate Period.
Click to expand...
If you think pigmentation on the DNA chain matters in anyway to the G-d of A, I and J in any way then you’re just not very smart.

DNA doesn’t lie.
 
#73
#73
hndog609 said:
This is at least the 3rd time he's waved his Olmeccian cult flag. He's the 50 First Dates of biased arguments.
Click to expand...

It’s the same game as Ancient Aliens. He’s taking ancient art (this statue looks like a ship!) and oral traditions (they said people came from the sky!) and using it to make his claim (Aliens!) and then pretending this is just some obvious fact that anyone who follows “the evidence” will conclude

I could use the same level of “evidence” to proclaim dragons and sea monsters exist
 
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#74
#74
Orangeslice13 said:
“As you can be one with the father”

Are you also G-d?
Click to expand...
So the Jewish leaders tried to stone Jesus because he said he was just like everyone else being “one with the Father”?
They knew EXACTLY what he was claiming which is why they went absolutely bonkers when he said it?
Also, the very specific language Jesus used when He said “before Moses was, I AM”. That phrase had a very clear and specific meaning in Judaism. Once again, His say those words also touched off a riot
 
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