Homelessness in Portland

[n_huffhines]

We have discussed this in other contexts before. As an individual, I struggle with this issue because I recognize that any help I might provide is almost certainly going to be abused and misused, due to mental illness. As a society we seem to be at a loss as to how to not just thrown money down a hole for the same reason.

Scrap 90% of the federal government activity and 20-50% of state government activity and replace it with UBI.

 

[GoBigOrangeUT]

This country has a massive mental health problem and nobody seems to know what to do about it. A large portion of homeless are vets. That should never be an issue. Yet we continue to kick the can down the road and this is what happens.

 

[LouderVol]

Scrap 90% of the federal government activity and 20-50% of state government activity and replace it with UBI.

Just curious what do you do after UBI if there are still homeless?

 

[n_huffhines]

Just curious what do you do after UBI if there are still homeless?

Rely on the kindness of strangers, city/county government, and what's left of state government.

Honestly, if there is UBI and no war on drugs, how are you homeless? You're probably a mental health case or mentally impaired in some way, which is a separate problem.

 

[volinbham]

More commonly known as Lakeshore.

They've turned a lot of the grassy areas into soccer fields now.

was Eastern State then changed to Lakeshore.

there was a guy that sat on a stump on the Lyons View side - they eventually removed the stump and got him a bench. he waved at everyone

 

[DonjoVol]

I've wondered that too. I really do not know how a household on $40k a year makes it any more, when rent could be $1,500 a month, not to mention the cost of groceries, gas, utilities, etc.

There was a video of a homeless camp outside Oakland and there seemed to be some nice cars parked outside some of these makeshift homes. So that leads me to believe it could be people on disability or even working but cannot afford the skyrocketing rent they might have been dealing with.

 

[DonjoVol]

Rely on the kindness of strangers, city/county government, and what's left of state government.

Honestly, if there is UBI and no war on drugs, how are you homeless? You're probably a mental health case or mentally impaired in some way, which is a separate problem.

Who is receiving a UBI that can pay for $1,500 to $3,000 a month rent plus utilities, groceries, car payment, etc?

 

[Vol423]

Scrap 90% of the federal government activity and 20-50% of state government activity and replace it with UBI.

Great idea. Let's do whatever we can to encourage even MORE people not to work.

 

[n_huffhines]

Who is receiving a UBI that can pay for $1,500 to $3,000 a month rent plus utilities, groceries, car payment, etc?

You think UBI is supposed to pay for living beyond your means? I own a house I am proud of in the PHX area, and I pay less than $1500/month on my mortgage.

If UBI won't cover your rent, move to a cheaper place or get roommates. If UBI is $800/month, you and 3 roommates could afford an awesome place near me. Now that you're not homeless and there is no war on drugs, it's way easier for people with drug problems to keep down a job.

It's not going to save everybody, but it's better than what we got.

If this world existed, I promise you someone would develop affordable housing (tiny home village type thing) where they could set it up so that rent comes out of the UBI check before it even gets to the recipient.

 

[lukeneyland]

This is partially a consequence of inflation. These “stimulus” measures almost always end up hurting the poor by making owning/ renting property more cost prohibitive in the long run

 

[DonjoVol]

You think UBI is supposed to pay for living beyond your means? I own a house I am proud of in the PHX area, and I pay less than $1500/month on my mortgage.

If UBI won't cover your rent, move to a cheaper place or get roommates. If UBI is $800/month, you and 3 roommates could afford an awesome place near me. Now that you're not homeless and there is no war on drugs, it's way easier for people with drug problems to keep down a job.

It's not going to save everybody, but it's better than what we got.

If this world existed, I promise you someone would develop affordable housing (tiny home village type thing) where they could set it up so that rent comes out of the UBI check before it even gets to the recipient.

How was anything I said living beyond your means? Rent, groceries, utilities and car payment are the basics. This does not count car insurance or renters insurance either which would be required.

By the way I'm not for any kind of UBI. Rental prices themselves have gotten out of control. There is a homeless and drug addiction crisis as well.

We sure as heck do not need to be encouraging a society where you need to live with 3 roommates. That is stupid. People should be striving for a career or job and hopefully starting a family.

 

[DonjoVol]

You think UBI is supposed to pay for living beyond your means? I own a house I am proud of in the PHX area, and I pay less than $1500/month on my mortgage.

If UBI won't cover your rent, move to a cheaper place or get roommates. If UBI is $800/month, you and 3 roommates could afford an awesome place near me. Now that you're not homeless and there is no war on drugs, it's way easier for people with drug problems to keep down a job.

It's not going to save everybody, but it's better than what we got.

If this world existed, I promise you someone would develop affordable housing (tiny home village type thing) where they could set it up so that rent comes out of the UBI check before it even gets to the recipient.

By the way. If someone does have a drug problem they should find ways to recover from their addiction before they start a job.

 

[82_VOL_83]

was Eastern State then changed to Lakeshore.

there was a guy that sat on a stump on the Lyons View side - they eventually removed the stump and got him a bench. he waved at everyone

I was in school in 79, was it Eastern then? I thought it was already Lakeshore then.

 

[82_VOL_83]

You think UBI is supposed to pay for living beyond your means? I own a house I am proud of in the PHX area, and I pay less than $1500/month on my mortgage.

If UBI won't cover your rent, move to a cheaper place or get roommates. If UBI is $800/month, you and 3 roommates could afford an awesome place near me. Now that you're not homeless and there is no war on drugs, it's way easier for people with drug problems to keep down a job.

It's not going to save everybody, but it's better than what we got.

If this world existed, I promise you someone would develop affordable housing (tiny home village type thing) where they could set it up so that rent comes out of the UBI check before it even gets to the recipient.

So you would basically "move" all the homeless from CA into poorer states making them even poorer? So the solution to an area having homeless moving in is to just raise the cost of living?

Your tiny home village would look just like the tent cities because whoever was the landlord would only supply the basics to get it started and then do what was barely necessary to keep it running. Checkout the projects next time you go slumming.

 

[n_huffhines]

By the way. If someone does have a drug problem they should find ways to recover from their addiction before they start a job.

I think this is terrible advice. Quite possibly the worst advice I've ever heard. Addicts need to occupy their time with constructive activities, like work.

 

[n_huffhines]

How was anything I said living beyond your means? Rent, groceries, utilities and car payment are the basics. This does not count car insurance or renters insurance either which would be required.

By the way I'm not for any kind of UBI. Rental prices themselves have gotten out of control. There is a homeless and drug addiction crisis as well.

We sure as heck do not need to be encouraging a society where you need to live with 3 roommates. That is stupid. People should be striving for a career or job and hopefully starting a family.

If you can't afford a car payment and insurance, then a car payment is beyond your means. IDK why you're hung up on this. I showed how 4 people could pool their money and have plenty left over for the necessities.

Would you rather have homeless tent villages made from tarps and cardboard or would you rather have a society that encourages roommates in places that meet code? LOL

 

[DonjoVol]

If you can't afford a car payment and insurance, then a car payment is beyond your means. IDK why you're hung up on this. I showed how 4 people could pool their money and have plenty left over for the necessities.

Would you rather have homeless tent villages made from tarps and cardboard or would you rather have a society that encourages roommates in places that meet code? LOL

I never said I wanted homeless tent villages. I've actually advocated for government to fix this problem. This would be the actual conservative way to approach the issue. UBI would not be the answer as this could cause people to want to work less.

 

[LouderVol]

Rely on the kindness of strangers, city/county government, and what's left of state government.

Honestly, if there is UBI and no war on drugs, how are you homeless? You're probably a mental health case or mentally impaired in some way, which is a separate problem.

Costs will exceed the UBI. Just like raising minimum wage doesnt help the poor. You raise the floor for all and costs will go up accordingly.

Especially if the idea is UBI will outpace existing minimum wage, you will hurt the workforce, driving up costs further as supply suffers.

 

[DonjoVol]

I think this is terrible advice. Quite possibly the worst advice I've ever heard. Addicts need to occupy their time with constructive activities, like work.

People should not be under the influence of drugs while they are at work. If you truly believe that then you start a business and hire only known drug addicts. Please let us know how your little experiment works.

The first step would be for them to receive the proper inpatient treatment and recovery. Once that is complete then they should be able to work.

 

[DonjoVol]

Costs will exceed the UBI. Just like raising minimum wage doesnt help the poor. You raise the floor for all and costs will go up accordingly.

Especially if the idea is UBI will outpace existing minimum wage, you will hurt the workforce, driving up costs further as supply suffers.

Keep in mind Huffines is a "Libertarian" and is advocating for UBI.

 

[n_huffhines]

Costs will exceed the UBI. Just like raising minimum wage doesnt help the poor. You raise the floor for all and costs will go up accordingly.

I don't think this is true at all. Minimum wage is a problem primarily because it doesn't really help the people we want it to help and causes unemployment, not because it has potential inflationary effects. UBI goes right to the people it intends to help and does not cause unemployment. The market would have to adjust to all these new renters, but it's a good problem to have. The market will sort it out.

Especially if the idea is UBI will outpace existing minimum wage, you will hurt the workforce, driving up costs further as supply suffers.

Why do you think UBI will result in a smaller work force? One reason our work force has problems is that we pay people not to work. In this system, we pay people a little bit regardless. So there is no disincentive to not work.

 

[Vol8188]

We have discussed this in other contexts before. As an individual, I struggle with this issue because I recognize that any help I might provide is almost certainly going to be abused and misused, due to mental illness. As a society we seem to be at a loss as to how to not just thrown money down a hole for the same reason.

I respect your honesty on the issue. Too many attempt to act like the answer to this is just spend more on x, y, and/or z.

 

[n_huffhines]

Keep in mind Huffines is a "Libertarian" and is advocating for UBI.

I'm not Libertarian, I'm libertarian, and I'm advocating UBI over government bloat. This is a change that would promote liberty in a broad sense (not just liberty from government) and rein in big government.

You know how conservatives and libertarians like school voucher programs? Well, this is a voucher program for almost everything the federal government does.

Imagine thinking that my push ITT for ending the war on drugs and reducing big government disqualifies me from being a libertarian.

 

[LouderVol]

Keep in mind Huffines is a "Libertarian" and is advocating for UBI.

UBI is trying to head off a problem that is coming. The issue, imo, is that it actually speeds up the problem, and will like all government programs not achieve it's intended goals. The libertarian argument is like huff said. Remove 90% of the government to replace with UBI. So you have less government bureaucracy but the same amount of spending.

 

[Vol8188]

Scrap 90% of the federal government activity and 20-50% of state government activity and replace it with UBI.

Lmfao I love that someone who sees how massive all government programs become believes we can keep UBI under control. Every election will go to the guy offering the most money