How good is Josh Heupel?

#51
#51
You have a bad memory, sir. I like Heupel a lot; I'm just not ready to put him with Saban just yet.
Who suggested that was necessary at this point?

I think most who push back on you simply think he's earned a little slack from fans. He's still dealing with a much less than ideal roster. The recruiting looks good overall but to a very large extent there are still some ups and downs to expect over the next 2 years or so.
I get crap from both sides on here which tells me my opinions are right where they need to be.
Why? If I have two employees with strong, different opinions on something and neither likes my compromise/solution... that doesn't make me right. The "correct" answer or truth never really depends on who agrees or disagrees with it.
 
#52
#52
Better than any coach we've had since Fulmer by a lot. Hell he might even end up being better than Fulmer when all is said and done. He's arguably THE best offensive mind in college football right now and our defense has improved significantly. I think his best quality is he embraced the guys he didn't recruit as HIS guys and coached accordingly. Appears to be a great motivator as well without the cheesy cliches and coaches to the strengths of his players instead of bad-mouthing about them to the media and/or making excuses. Any other year during our journey through the wilderness we lose that A&M game in overtime or some other heartbreaking fashion. This team gutted out that win on Saturday and it was a breath of fresh air.
 
#53
#53
I question not taking FGs at times myself but with this offense I think we should probably take what we can get. Long FGs are questionable though because our kicker isn't very good beyond 45 yards.
Not to dismiss your whole point but the one Saturday can’t be blamed on Kicker. Wind was swirling viscously inside stadium especially at that end and it was 51 yards, it was missed by wind pushing it. The flags were standing straight out wide right at times when he was kicking it And he barely pushed it. It was actually a good kick under the conditions.
 
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#54
#54
The WRs are as big of a problem in the lack of a passing game as Milton is.
I agree. Milton has had his problems, but so have the WRS. Our offense is really in trouble when that happens and that will cost us against at least three of the teams we play the rest of the year.
 
#55
#55
I like your posts, OP, but this one is a stretch.

Numbers are not subjective. His winning percentage at UT is .719 and for his career it is .750.

If he continues to win he will improve his percentage and perhaps one day top The General and Phil, but he isn't there yet. Like your racing analogy, if you exceed 130 mph on 46 of the 50 laps the first 4 won't matter and you reach your goal, but if you are only 5 laps in you haven't yet.

The nineteen games from November 8th, 1996 to January 4th, 1998, Phil was 18-1, a winning percentage of .947. I'm sure Neyland had a nineteen game stretch where he was batting 1.000. That's what we are doing, right? Picking the best stretches? If we ignore the first thirteen games because of transitioning for CJH, wouldn't we do that to Phil and Neyland? That would take away a 12-1 stretch for Phil and a 12-1 stretch for Neyland. Not really fair.

To answer the question, he's really good and I am pleased he is UT's coach.
 
#56
#56
Who suggested that was necessary at this point?

I think most who push back on you simply think he's earned a little slack from fans. He's still dealing with a much less than ideal roster. The recruiting looks good overall but to a very large extent there are still some ups and downs to expect over the next 2 years or so.

Why? If I have two employees with strong, different opinions on something and neither likes my compromise/solution... that doesn't make me right. The "correct" answer or truth never really depends on who agrees or disagrees with it.

The OP brought comps to Saban's winning %. And that's fine, I think OP just wanted to highlight that CJH has us on a good roll. My only point is that I've heard that argument on this very board regarding our last 2 coaches at one point or another; dang, if I didn't think we were on the right track on Dec 31, 2015 and Dec 31, 2019. And the point of that point is that I only like to compare season to season or group of seasons to group of seasons. It is in that context that CJH stands out vs his predecessors and yet, still has a bit left to prove.

Go back and really look through what I've said and what it was responding to in context. I don't think we disagree much at all.
 
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#57
#57
I think in a vacuum some people will question some of his decisions. Like not taking FGs at times, when you look big picture though I think he’s pretty aware of what he has and how to put his team in the best position to win.
When your offense is not so great, and your are playing a very good D you kick the ball on 4th and 7.
 
#58
#58
I think all of the people on this board calling Mizzou "fool's gold" are in for a rude awakening when we play them. It will likely be miserably cold down there when we play, conditions always suck. And this Mizzou team is a lot better than that South Carolina team we played last year. Mizzou is 6-1 right now. That USC Jr. team was 6-4 when we played them and had not beat a single team worth a damn.

I'm not saying we cannot win, but the people already counting that as a W are wildly overconfident considering the issues our team has on offense.
 
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#59
#59
Heupel is a great coach, but I worry people are going to be down on him if we finish the season 8-4. And it's more likely than people realize (Mizzou is pretty damn good this year and we play them on the road).

I don't think people understand that, to some extent, this season was inevitable. We had a load of offensive talent when Heupel came in, but we had an effective dead recruiting class in 2020. And part of what we're seeing is the impact of that. Not enough O-line depth. Offense is filled with very young players and we lost all our best players to the draft (Hooker, Hyatt, D-Wright, Tillman).

Overall, Heupel has greatly outperformed given the circumstances he inherited, and I think he's the guy long-term. The fact that people have all but forgotten the situation he walked into is a testament to just how good he is. Most coaches would not have won nearly as many games as Heupel has won in the same circumstance.
My thought is Heupel just seems to have Mizzu's number.
Kentucky sucks.
Bowers just got hurt.
Bama is beatable.
8-4 with extremely close losses would be OK with most fans because they know they were just a good QB away from another 10-2 season.
 
#61
#61
I think all of the people on this board calling Mizzou "fool's gold" are in for a rude awakening when we play them. It will likely be miserably cold down there when we play, conditions always suck. And this Mizzou team is a lot better than that South Carolina team we played last year. Mizzou is 6-1 right now. That USC Jr. team was 6-4 when we played them and had not beat a single team worth a damn.

I'm not saying we cannot win, but the people already counting that as a W are wildly overconfident considering the issues our team has on offense.
I agree that it's a worrisome game given our lack of offense, but I'm not sure everyone realizes who exactly Missouri has beaten to get that 6-1 record.

They struggled against KState, Memphis, and MTSU. They lost to the inconsistent LSU Tigers despite being at home too. Their decisive victories were against... South Dakota, Vanderbilt, and Kensucky. Two of those simply don't matter, and Kensucky is a one dimensional offense without a good defense to back it up. I do feel more confident against Kensucky than I do Missouri to be sure, but I think the only way we lose Missouri is if Milton has multiple turnovers and our defensive line doesn't play to the standard its set over the course of the year... minus Florida. You play Kensucky the same way to play the Volunteers. You load the box and dare their QB to do something more than complete a screen or slant.

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#62
#62
Deserving of the accolades…well earned. Outsmarted himself this last game with the 4th down/FG decisions and passing in the red zone instead of making the Aggies utilize all their timeouts imo, but he acknowledged it and all HCs worth their salt never stop learning.
 
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#64
#64
They struggled against KState, Memphis, and MTSU. They lost to the inconsistent LSU Tigers despite being at home too. Their decisive victories were against... South Dakota, Vanderbilt, and Kensucky. Two of those simply don't matter, and Kensucky is a one dimensional offense without a good defense to back it up. I do feel more confident against Kensucky than I do Missouri to be sure, but I think the only way we lose Missouri is if Milton has multiple turnovers and our defensive line doesn't play to the standard its set over the course of the year... minus Florida. You play Kensucky the same way to play the Volunteers. You load the box and dare their QB to do something more than complete a screen or slant.

1) We're a one-dimensional offense until we prove otherwise, IMO. It has been 6 games and we have the same issues we've had since Game 1. There has been little to no improvement in the passing offense. If anything, it has regressed.

2) You can look at our schedule and compare it to Mizzou and the schedule's are fairly comparable. If they have played "nobody" so have we. LSU's offense is far better than any offense we've faced so far. Sure, their defense has been inconsitent, but that is still an elite LSU offense that it would not surprise me if they won out on the backs of that offense.

3) On my final bolded point above, Milton has had a case of the turnovers lately, and our DL was a no show in our 1 road game of the year against the best team (by record) we've faced so far. It can happen again.

I do think we will win that game (or at least I am hopeful), but I just think Mizzou is a lot better than people are willing to admit because we all hate the Dorkwitz, and we are a fairly mediocre road team under Heupel. It's going to be a brutal game.
 
#65
#65
My thought is Heupel just seems to have Mizzu's number.
Kentucky sucks.
Bowers just got hurt.
Bama is beatable.
8-4 with extremely close losses would be OK with most fans because they know they were just a good QB away from another 10-2 season.
10-2 or better with O being back and D drastically improved over last year…
 
#66
#66
Better than any coach we've had since Fulmer by a lot. Hell he might even end up being better than Fulmer when all is said and done. He's arguably THE best offensive mind in college football right now and our defense has improved significantly. I think his best quality is he embraced the guys he didn't recruit as HIS guys and coached accordingly. Appears to be a great motivator as well without the cheesy cliches and coaches to the strengths of his players instead of bad-mouthing about them to the media and/or making excuses. Any other year during our journey through the wilderness we lose that A&M game in overtime or some other heartbreaking fashion. This team gutted out that win on Saturday and it was a breath of fresh air.
Amen! On Fulmer I’ll use a Bears fan analogy. When Ditka was at his best, he imprinted his personality and passion and allowed his football guys to do their jobs. When it started going wrong was when he bought into the Bears fans/SNL skit that he could will them into wins. That manifested itself with Fulmer when he basically shunted Clawson aside and took over the offense in what ended up to be his final season.
 
#67
#67
Heupel is a great coach, but I worry people are going to be down on him if we finish the season 8-4. And it's more likely than people realize (Mizzou is pretty damn good this year and we play them on the road).

I don't think people understand that, to some extent, this season was inevitable. We had a load of offensive talent when Heupel came in, but we had an effective dead recruiting class in 2020. And part of what we're seeing is the impact of that. Not enough O-line depth. Offense is filled with very young players and we lost all our best players to the draft (Hooker, Hyatt, D-Wright, Tillman).

Overall, Heupel has greatly outperformed given the circumstances he inherited, and I think he's the guy long-term. The fact that people have all but forgotten the situation he walked into is a testament to just how good he is. Most coaches would not have won nearly as many games as Heupel has won in the same circumstance.

That's because many on this board have unreasonable expectations, look no further than the weekly score predictions lol. We were never going to score 35-45 points on A&M with an average qb against a very good defense. That is just sheer lunacy. If we finish 8-4 then this season will have been a success, 6-6 or less would be a disappointment.
 
#68
#68
1) We're a one-dimensional offense until we prove otherwise, IMO. It has been 6 games and we have the same issues we've had since Game 1. There has been little to no improvement in the passing offense. If anything, it has regressed.

2) You can look at our schedule and compare it to Mizzou and the schedule's are fairly comparable. If they have played "nobody" so have we. LSU's offense is far better than any offense we've faced so far. Sure, their defense has been inconsitent, but that is still an elite LSU offense that it would not surprise me if they won out on the backs of that offense.

3) On my final bolded point above, Milton has had a case of the turnovers lately, and our DL was a no show in our 1 road game of the year against the best team (by record) we've faced so far. It can happen again.

I do think we will win that game (or at least I am hopeful), but I just think Mizzou is a lot better than people are willing to admit because we all hate the Dorkwitz, and we are a fairly mediocre road team under Heupel. It's going to be a brutal game.
1) No disagreement at all! The difference is that our one dimension was just tested against a good defense, and they passed it with a high grade in my opinion. I don't see that Missouri has came across a decent passing defense though... in terms of total yards allowed in passing, the highest rated team they've played is Kansas State at 40. If you narrow that down to the more relevant SEC competition, then their best test was just Kentucky at 55th. LSU and Vanderbilt were 101 and 119 respectively. In contrast to TN, we just played a top 20 rushing defense and top 10 overall defense in terms of yards allowed. In fact, we'll be the first top 20 scoring defense that Missouri has seen this year... the rest are in the 60s or below.

2) No disagreement there either! The point we've both only played one decent team was evidence for mindset as well. That was supposed to convey that Missouri has done nothing more than UT to think they're going to give us a "rude awakening," which to me implied you thought them proven to be much better than UT is all.

3) No disagreement for a third time lol! You won't hardly ever see me defend Milton, but that Florida game is the only reason why I hesitate to be confident in saying we'll beat Missouri. Our defensive line is one of the best if not the best in the SEC; it's been our strength all year. In fact, I'd say they're the backbone of the team's success even over the run offense. That's all to say a passing attack can fold really quick when put under the constant pressure than our defense can bring. I think it no coincidence that every QB outside the state of Florida was limping around for the majority of the games played against us.

My overall point is that I understand the hesitation simply because of Florida and having Milton as our QB, but I think you can be a little more confident given the context of who Missouri and we have played against so far.
 
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#69
#69
All day long. I am 100% behind Heupel, but I expected a drop off this season. Look at all of the players that were drafted last year.

Yes, and we haven’t yet achieved the ability to restock and reload. In reality, it likely will take another class or two to get there.

But having a very highly rated QB already in the program is huge for next season.
 
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#70
#70
The OP brought comps to Saban's winning %. And that's fine, I think OP just wanted to highlight that CJH has us on a good roll. My only point is that I've heard that argument on this very board regarding our last 2 coaches at one point or another; dang, if I didn't think we were on the right track on Dec 31, 2015 and Dec 31, 2019. And the point of that point is that I only like to compare season to season or group of seasons to group of seasons. It is in that context that CJH stands out vs his predecessors and yet, still has a bit left to prove.

Go back and really look through what I've said and what it was responding to in context. I don't think we disagree much at all.
I don't remember that much chatter about Pruitt. I liked him better than Jones at the beginning but didn't assume he would succeed.

I never bought into Jones. Starting in year one, he underperformed the talent on the roster in every year. How someone as devoid of coaching talent got an HC job at Cincy much less UT just boggles my mind. Purely from a football coaching and leadership perspective, he was the worst in my life time. He was a used car salesman and had some early recruiting success aided by banner in state years and legacies. He just can't coach a lick. I don't think his players took him serious or trusted him.

Heupel still has a ton to prove. There are things that could go wrong and some beyond his control. He still has to recruit with consistency and build the roster.

I just don't think there are any comparisons between Heupel and previous guys. He's a better leader. He's a better coach. He seems to run things straight and honest. And... he's finding ways to win in spite of circumstances. He has overachieved so far considering where he started. I'm not sure about Majors but don't believe you can say that anyone since him has overachieved their roster talent... including Fulmer.
 
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#71
#71
1) No disagreement at all! The difference is that our one dimension was just tested against a good defense, and they passed it with a high grade in my opinion. I don't see that Missouri has came across a decent passing defense though... in terms of total yards allowed in passing, the highest rated team they've played is Kansas State at 40. If you narrow that down to the more relevant SEC competition, then their best test was just Kentucky at 55th. LSU and Vanderbilt were 101 and 119 respectively. In contrast to TN, we just played a top 20 rushing defense and top 10 overall defense in terms of yards allowed. In fact, we'll be the first top 20 scoring defense that Missouri has seen this year... the rest are in the 60s or below.

2) No disagreement there either! The point we've both only played one decent team was evidence for mindset as well. That was supposed to convey that Missouri has done nothing more than UT to think they're going to give us a "rude awakening," which to me implied you thought them proven to be much better than UT is all.

3) No disagreement for a third time lol! You won't hardly ever see me defend Milton, but that Florida game is the only reason why I hesitate to be confident in saying we'll beat Missouri. Our defensive line is one of the best if not the best in the SEC; it's been our strength all year. In fact, I'd say they're the backbone of the team's success even over the run offense. That's all to say a passing attack can fold really quick when put under the constant pressure than our defense can bring. I think it no coincidence that every QB outside the state of Florida was limping around for the majority of the games played against us.

My overall point is that I understand the hesitation simply because of Florida and having Milton as our QB, but I think you can be a little more confident given the context of who Missouri and we have played against so far.

If I had to bet, I’d bet that we split between Kentucky and Mizzou.

Certainly capable of beating (or losing) both, but I suspect that we’ll play well in one and stub our toe in the other.
 
#72
#72
All day long. I am 100% behind Heupel, but I expected a drop off this season. Look at all of the players that were drafted last year.
He's doing what great coaches do. Still has to finish the season but...

"Great coaches, coach great". They coach bad talent to be better than it is. They coach great talent to be better than it is.


When we as fans have to start saying things like... "He should get 4 years so he has his players" then that's a clear sign that that coach isn't going to get it done. Maybe a realistic expectation is 5 wins and he gets 7.
 
#73
#73
If I had to bet, I’d bet that we split between Kentucky and Mizzou.

Certainly capable of beating (or losing) both, but I suspect that we’ll play well in one and stub our toe in the other.
I wouldn't be surprised if that was the outcome either. I do think we're more likely to stub our toe against Mizzou than KY though. I just don't fear Kentucky... they've been 5-0 multiple times over the past 5 years, and they fall off a cliff as soon as they get to playing middle of the road or good SEC competition. It's not only the historical evidence that gives me confidence though. Their QB in particular really might be worse than Joe Milton, and that's saying something!
 
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#74
#74
If I had to bet, I’d bet that we split between Kentucky and Mizzou.

Certainly capable of beating (or losing) both, but I suspect that we’ll play well in one and stub our toe in the other.

UK is concerning only because they will have 2 weeks to rest and prepare.
 
#75
#75
UK is concerning only because they will have 2 weeks to rest and prepare.

I’m not as concerned about either Kentucky or Mizzou….I’m concerned about us!

The style of football we’re being forced to play leaves less of a margin for error. A bad night or a few bad plays could cost us one of those games (or even both).

We have to play well to win.
 

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