I cannot believe what I just watched

[livefaith]

Once she is gone she will be thought of better. As long as she tries to hold on then she is the impediment to improving the program and people will express their displeasure in the most vociferous manner in the hopes of influencing those who make the decisions. That is how it works. It is a tough business.

The other thing is that she is eating into her good will. Apparently she really threw Carter under the bus in her press conference. It is hard to have sympathy for her when she does that. You don't get in a dogfight with a team of walkons like LSU has if there aren't a lot of problems with the program. Any single play is not the cause of the loss.

How fondly she is remembered will in large part depend on how long she hangs on and how far down she pulls us. And you know what? That is perfectly fair.

I agree. The failure is obvious and well documented. Not disputing that at all. There is no defense for that.

And yes, If she hangs on to this and fights and uses the power players to keep her there, then her "legacy", if you will, will certainly be tarnished. Maybe beyond repair. I totally agree with you.

I also agree that "blaming everyone else" is just the standard MO for many coaches who need to elevate those under their leadership. Nobody bats an eye at it until the wheels start coming off. Of course, were now skidding on all four brake rotors, so this "blame game" looks even more suspect each week. Coaches with unquestionable credentials sometimes blame "themselves & the staff" for losses (see Steve Spurrier / Saban), but they are secure in their position. Holly wants (needs?) to convince her players, fans, and bosses b/c she really has proven little if anything at this level. So, she's trapped between a rock & hard place. She's most likely @ to wilt under the pressure of failure, but all she knows to do is keep up the "strong front" or risk complete collapse.

IMO, no need for her to resign today. She probably should in short order if we collapse in the SECT early & miss the NCAA. If we make the tourney crazy and lose in gm 1 or 2(a miracle atp), then for her legacy's sake, she should "ask for help", "admit being overwhelmed", and "bow out gracefully" while staying all Vol. And there's a "snowball's chance" she pulls a Cuonzo. Nobody around here saw that coming either. Remember that young Ford Motor Co executive & Ford family member going public to resign and ask for help to get their mess fixed? I can respect that guy.

If she "bowed out gracefully", I would have total respect for her decision. Many people, for some horrible reason, love to "pile on" when others fail. Especially fans. This "scapegoat" mentality somehow soothes their fragile fandom and keeps them in the "superior chair".

Think @ it like this ... how many human beings in the USA are capable of keeping one of the top 2 elite WCBB programs at the same level that the legendary CPS was capable of? Seriously, how many? Just a guess, maybe 4 or 5. A total guess, yes. So if a person (CHW) is not in the top 5 WCBB coaches in the USA, their is truly zero shame in that. Me, everyone posting here, and almost every single coach in America joins her.

I have personally been in a position of leadership where many people needed my best. At a point after giving "everything" I had, I realized that I was not personally the BEST option for the "team". Decided to bow out as gracefully and honorably as possible. Even though the cost was going to be high to me and my family. It's an extremely difficult situation for a person to be in. So, life has taught me not to "pile on".

Now, if she hangs on to that "fist fulla dollars" til the bitter end, and/or lawyers up, then she deserves the contempt that comes her way IMO. She may "eat into 100% of her good will" atp. I doubt she's ignorant about that.

All I'm ultimately saying is that if she is replaced, that HW should not only be welcomed, but looked upon highly the next time she steps in TBA to watch the UTLV play. If she bows out gracefully, and gets the Lane Kiffin Treatment, then we've got deeper problems than 12 losses IMHO.

 

[bowlinggreenvol]

It's not like the Lady Vols generate revenue. Dont think the AD really cares about attendance or ticket sales for LV games

Lack of profit doesn't render incoming revenue useless. Would you rather lose $1M annually or $2M annually? Just because they're both a loss doesn't make them equal. I believe every organization would like to mitigate their losses as much as possible. Obviously in a for profit business, the WBB "division" of the business would be cut because it doesn't produce a profit. Since that's not happening, the closer to self-sufficient they can be the the better. The more revenue (not profit) that WBB generates the smaller the drain on the overall budget.

 

[BBaller]

Maya Moore....it seems like every since her recruiting debacle we've had something horrible happen every year. Lol

It was only a debacle for you because you didn't get her. No major violations took place except in your head. Get over it, already. I think you have bigger problems at the moment.

 

[1985Vols]

Lack of profit doesn't render incoming revenue useless. Would you rather lose $1M annually or $2M annually? Just because they're both a loss doesn't make them equal. I believe every organization would like to mitigate their losses as much as possible. Obviously in a for profit business, the WBB "division" of the business would be cut because it doesn't produce a profit. Since that's not happening, the closer to self-sufficient they can be the the better. The more revenue (not profit) that WBB generates the smaller the drain on the overall budget.

Good point. Cut your expenses then. CHW making way too much money.

 

[bowlinggreenvol]

Good point. Cut your expenses then. CHW making way too much money.

Exactly! Total Staff salaries are likely pushing $1m/year; we sure as hell aren't getting a great ROI for that. I've never understood why our Ath Dept, regardless of AD in charge, refuses to make investments in coaching. That's exactly what they are, investments; especially in profit generating sports. Great coaching investments have the potential to turn nonprofit producing sports into profit drivers. Think LSU balks at paying Paul Mainieri a $750k base salary? No, cause it's paid off in the highest attendance in NCAA baseball, as a result of multiple trips to Omaha and multiple SEC titles. LSU baseball turns a profit; one of only a handful of schools in the entire country to do so. Be willing to spend money or spend it more wisely. Rant over.

 

[Amb3096]

Draya should be finished with her master's degree soon, I would think. She graduated in May of last year. Maybe this is the push that will encourage her to spread her wings. Holly's comments about one player who has stuck beside her and tried to please her, changing much of her own style to fit Holly's idea of what she should be doing, was wrong.

What has Andraya done to make herself a better player? Nothing. She proclaimed herself a Defensive Specialist (i.e. a mediocre player that can't play offense), and she doesn't even do that. That's on her, not Holly. Last season, Holly was pleading with her to shoot more, and she wouldn't. She's not a competitor. She doesn't have the guts or mental fortitude of someone logging major minutes for a (historic) national powerhouse program.

If you want to blame Holly for poorly developing players, I think there's a whole roster that can attest to that, but Andraya is not one of them.

It's wishful thinking that she decides to graduate. She will be back next year in orange playing 30+ minutes a game and contributing about as much as she is this season...which isn't much.

 

[Darth_Vol]

She doesn't have the guts or mental fortitude of someone logging major minutes for a (historic) national powerhouse program.

And Carter takes Burdick's place on the whipping post...

 

[Escape Goat]

Thanks, Bernie, for taking time out from your busy campaign schedule to comment. :clapping:

Lol

 

[Amb3096]

And Carter takes Burdick's place on the whipping post...

You're welcome to refute my points. But you don't, so...

 

[Martic]

Good point. Cut your expenses then. CHW making way too much money.

They're going to have to pay a pretty penny to get a proven coach as many of you want. If they don't make money and Hart doesn't care who we gonna get?

 

[armchair]

There are PLENTY of good coaches around the country--most of them at smaller schools--who would be light years smarter and better leaders than HW and would be thrilled to make what she's making. Yes, if you try to hire someone established at a big school, we'd have to pay more. Just give me someone youngish and dynamic and smart because I can't take all the dumb coaching and low IQ basketball anymore.

 

[madtownvol]

Sit her, and Tennessee loses by 20.

Better to have her on the court and turn the ball over a few times while scoring then having dead weight Defensive Specialist stand around and contribute nothing, except an unnecessary foul at the end of the game to hand the ball over to LSU.

If Holly is too clueless that she can't see that turnovers are a small price to pay for the other assets Diamond brings to the court, then DeShields should start looking for next school, since she will get nothing out of playing for Holly.

Actually, this is one situation that Holly seemed to handle correctly. Diamond was awful when she first came into the game, with 2 or 3 immediate turnovers and some blown defensive assignments. After she was re-inserted in the second quarter, she seemed a bit more composed and starting making some positive plays. She started the 3rd quarter and was great from there on out.

 

[bobkitten]

What has Andraya done to make herself a better player? Nothing. She proclaimed herself a Defensive Specialist (i.e. a mediocre player that can't play offense), and she doesn't even do that. That's on her, not Holly. Last season, Holly was pleading with her to shoot more, and she wouldn't. She's not a competitor. She doesn't have the guts or mental fortitude of someone logging major minutes for a (historic) national powerhouse program.

If you want to blame Holly for poorly developing players, I think there's a whole roster that can attest to that, but Andraya is not one of them.

It's wishful thinking that she decides to graduate. She will be back next year in orange playing 30+ minutes a game and contributing about as much as she is this season...which isn't much.

She didn't claim she was a defensive specialist. PAT SUMMITT did, a year or two BEFORE she ever came to the Vols! Repeatedly. Are you saying CPHS did not judge her skill??

I agree her game has generally regressed. It appears she has been given instructions to play in many ways quite differently than she did before coming to Tennessee. She was a very effective point guard in high school,and even that shortened first year at UTcontinued to play like she had played before. I have no clue why she is now, unless she has been instructed to. Her shooting is certainly not as good or confident as it was initially. Part of that is probably due to tougher opponents.

She is one of the three or four strongest players on the team--per pound, probably the strongest. I don't think her abilities have been well-used on this team the last 2 years, like we might say about other players.

I'm thinking being publicly thrown under the bus will NOT instill further confidence in herself.

This is my opinion, based on the 8 years I have watched her play (less the red-shirt season, of course.)

 

[ncaawfan]

I agree this is a very bad game. But to blame,
1. 50% to the coach
2. 50% to the players
-missed the FT (2 players missed 4 FTs, that is a lot)
-fouled Hyder

 

[1982Alum]

LV fans need to vote with their feet for the remaining home games. Stay at home. Forget about the putrid collection of "talent" that UT calls a team.

Show the AD that until there is a change in the coaching, there will be no fans coming in to watch patheticly spoiled brats play poor high school level basketball.

 

[Darth_Vol]

She didn't claim she was a defensive specialist. PAT SUMMITT did, a year or two BEFORE she ever came to the Vols! Repeatedly. Are you saying CPHS did not judge her skill??

I agree her game has generally regressed. It appears she has been given instructions to play in many ways quite differently than she did before coming to Tennessee. She was a very effective point guard in high school,and even that shortened first year at UTcontinued to play like she had played before. I have no clue why she is now, unless she has been instructed to. Her shooting is certainly not as good or confident as it was initially. Part of that is probably due to tougher opponents.

She is one of the three or four strongest players on the team--per pound, probably the strongest. I don't think her abilities have been well-used on this team the last 2 years, like we might say about other players.

I'm thinking being publicly thrown under the bus will NOT instill further confidence in herself.

This is my opinion, based on the 8 years I have watched her play (less the red-shirt season, of course.)

Spot on. There are 7 HS All-Americans on this roster. Maybe people forget Carter is NOT among them. If you want to complain about what the player is versus what you think the player should be, Carter is not one I would put at the top of the list. Better yet, instead of piling on individual players maybe some should look at an entire roster not playing up to potential and find the common denominator....

 

[wtorange]

Spot on. There are 7 HS All-Americans on this roster. Maybe people forget Carter is NOT among them. If you want to complain about what the player is versus what you think the player should be, Carter is not one I would put at the top of the list. Better yet, instead of piling on individual players maybe some should look at an entire roster not playing up to potential and find the common denominator....

As I recall she missed her senior year with an injury so she didn't make an AA list. She was an All American as a junior.

 

[Voluble2]

Think @ it like this ... how many human beings in the USA are capable of keeping one of the top 2 elite WCBB programs at the same level that the legendary CPS was capable of? Seriously, how many? Just a guess, maybe 4 or 5.

If it were easy then Pat's accomplishments wouldn't be as great as they are and she wouldn't be the icon that she is.

But there is a whole spectrum beneath that level and we are on the bottom of it this year. I would ask you how many Div 1 coaches could take the talent we have and produce this poor of a record this year?

The bottom line is this. If Barnes were to take a team with 7 five-star players that was picked to finish in the top four nationally and lead it to the bottom of its division then he would likely not get to keep his job. If he had just whiffed on low posts for several years, and then most recently had a completely empty class where he could entice no one to play for us, then he would be gone no matter what his buyout would be because no matter how much it was it would ultimately cost less than rebuilding the burned out husk of T-B Arena.

UT has to decide how seriously it takes women's basketball and if it wants to be an elite team, or whether it is content to just keep expenses down and muddle along. The fans will only come as long as there is a commitment to winning above all else.

Holly seems like a great person. I would love to have her for a friend or neighbor. She has accomplished a lot. But there comes a time to move along.