I hate Mike Hamilton

#76
#76
114VOL said:
​

Fulmer was asked to retire. He refused. He was asked to resign. He refused. Fulmer made the powers fire him. It wasn't Hamilton's unilateral decision to do it.

Fulmer also wanted the press conference with Vicky in tow. They gave him what he wanted PLUS $6,000,000

Every big time program has gone through down times. Just because we have struggled since doesn't mean it was a bad decision.

Fulmer did a great job here for about 5-6 years and then it started sliding to mediocrity and there was never any sign he was rebuilding back to a national power. Sorry, the 2007 season isn't real evidence.

Make no mistake. This slide were at the bottom of started in 2002 whether YOU want to acknowledge it or not.
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114VOL said:
I suppose you and I define national relevance differently. I define it as being a national championship contender, which we haven't sniffed since 2001. Oh yeah, there were a couple of preseasons where we were ranked top 5 because of our talent, but then the "perfect storm" would strike!

I would love to go 8-4 THIS year but I wouldn't be satisfied with it for years and years and that's about as good as we were ever going to be again with Fulmer at the helm.

He's a great guy and I respect him for his time here, but enough is enough about him. The fact that no one of any significance wanted him as their HC speaks volumes
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this is a virtual masterpiece of posting. needs to be stickied, or tattooed, or both.

the only thing missing is how CPFs efforts at recruiting and at OC helped CJM finally start winning championships after struggling for 10 years.

CPF was great for UT football for about 12 years or so, around average for 5, and then was taking it into the toilet for his last 4. the negative repercussions are still being felt.
 
#78
#78
Sgt_Nick_Fury said:
As long as people like you keep twisting the truth.....that ain't gonna happen.
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I haven 't twisted anything. I know exactly how it went down. The fact is, you can't face the truth about Fulmer. You ignorantly claim what others think around the country but some like me, happen to know better. The fact that NO ONE of any significance wanted him for their HC opening speaks volumes as to how the rest of the country viewed him. As I SAID, I respect him and loved what he did here between 1992-1998. After that, complacency set in and he became an incessant narcissist every time someone with temerity questioned him on the downfall. I know him personally and think highly of him. That doesn't change the fact of his words and actions from the middle of the last decade to his firing.

Research it, Nick. His public statements about his desire to coach again can be easily retrieved. The Kansas interview debacle is quite telling.

I am not a hater of Fulmer. I am a realist. I am a former letterman and a lover of the University of Tennessee. My letters are "T" not "F"
 
#79
#79
tm3 said:
this is a virtual masterpiece of posting. needs to be stickied, or tattooed, or both.

the only thing missing is how CPFs efforts at recruiting and at OC helped CJM finally start winning championships after struggling for 10 years.

CPF was great for UT football for about 12 years or so, around average for 5, and then was taking it into the toilet for his last 4. the negative repercussions are still being felt.
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Thanks, I think!

I think highly of the man but his time passed and he became extremely selfish in defending himself.

He should take note of how Lloyd Carr handled being forced out at Michigan. In a more current situation, watch how Mack Brown handles it. If Fulmer would have been more loyal to the system and less to himself, he would be AD right now at UT, which would be great. Johnny could have done it too.
 
#80
#80
Yes it was meant to be a complement although I will admit that most of my posts come with a heavy dose of sarcasm.

It is especially nice to hear input from those who can speak from knowing CPF personally and who have actually played.
 
#81
#81
114VOL said:
​

You're misinformed, but then I already knew that to be a fact.

Fulmer was asked to retire. He refused. He was asked to resign. He refused. Fulmer made the powers fire him. It wasn't Hamilton's unilateral decision to do it.

Fulmer also wanted the press conference with Vicky in tow. They gave him what he wanted PLUS $6,000,000

Every big time program has gone through down times. Just because we have struggled since doesn't mean it was a bad decision.

Fulmer did a great job here for about 5-6 years and then it started sliding to mediocrity and there was never any sign he was rebuilding back to a national power. Sorry, the 2007 season isn't real evidence.

Make no mistake. This slide were at the bottom of started in 2002 whether YOU want to acknowledge it or not.
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This is how it went down.. It did start back then.. Worse part is even the casual fan could see it declining before their eyes.. The fact Tennessee drew 90k plus for most home games bought him a lot more time than he deserved.. He was also rooted in like a tick and very hard to remove.. It was discussed removing him after 2005. It was quickly shot down. The fall off in recruiting in his last 3 years really hurt the program in a way that it hasn't recovered from..
 
#83
#83
tm3 said:
this is a virtual masterpiece of posting. needs to be stickied, or tattooed, or both.

the only thing missing is how CPFs efforts at recruiting and at OC helped CJM finally start winning championships after struggling for 10 years.

CPF was great for UT football for about 12 years or so, around average for 5, and then was taking it into the toilet for his last 4. the negative repercussions are still being felt.
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This is your brain on drugs. That people can actually type this nonsense after the last five years is stunning.
 
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#84
#84
Eddie Vol Halen said:
This is your brain on drugs. That people can actually type this nonsense after the last five years is stunning.
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You do realize that he had 2 losing seasons out of his last 4, and that the reason there were 2 walk ons starting on the O line in 09 and essentially all freshmen on the O line in 10 were due to his recruiting, or rather lack thereof, don't you?
 
#85
#85
Sgt_Nick_Fury said:
I just don't know what to say if you think that was a correct way to treat him, and handle transition. He was not part of any scandal, he gave us the best era since Neyland....even sliding downward we were still a competitive program, but you still think it made since to fire him mid season? We are on different planes of what is right and wrong.
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Here's the thing as well.

We were "sliding downward" in the toughest era to win the SECE ever. Four HoF coaches, the best collegiate footballer in a generation (I like Johnny Football more than Tebow personally), etc. And we were still having seasons we would probably sell body organs to have again.

What has been painfully clear is that the SECE has never been easier to win than since Fulmer has been fired. We've sucked our hardest in 100 years at the time when it was easiest to win the East since its formation.

And Tajh Boyd would have started last Saturday and Chief would have been leading the D.

What might have been. And people still say "Sumlin Brothers" to justify these epic years of suckitude. SMDH.
 
#87
#87
Vol4life25 said:
Disagree, Dooley improved the roster and kept us to 5-6 wins a year.

It could be worse.....a lot.

We could of won 2-4 games a year and are roster could of got worse.
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This roster isn't full of SEC caliber players. It's the reason we keep getting trucked.. Dooley was a waste of 3 years period..
 
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#88
#88
Eddie Vol Halen said:
Here's the thing as well.

We were "sliding downward" in the toughest era to win the SECE ever. Four HoF coaches, the best collegiate footballer in a generation (I like Johnny Football more than Tebow personally), etc. And we were still having seasons we would probably sell body organs to have again.

What has been painfully clear is that the SECE has never been easier to win than since Fulmer has been fired. We've sucked our hardest in 100 years at the time when it was easiest to win the East since its formation.

And Tajh Boyd would have started last Saturday and Chief would have been leading the D.

What might have been. And people still say "Sumlin Brothers" to justify these epic years of suckitude. SMDH.
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LOL Tahj Boyd does not play defense
 
#89
#89
KBVol said:
While I agree 100% with your point, 20/100 means you have poor eyesight, not good. Just sayin.
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I actually meant to say 20/100. I don't want to be able to see the hindsight. I want to look back and think we did everything right, instead of knowing now that had we just kept Fulmer a couple more years, we'd be so much better off. For example, had we kept Fulmer until after 2009:

1. Lane Kiffin would have bolted some other school to go to USC.

2. If Fulmer had another bad year, then all the "we can turn it around" talk wouldn't have existed. He would have had his chance that he thought he deserved.

3. Attrition wouldn't have been nearly as bad of a problem.

4. Tahj Boyd would be our quarterback. RIGHT NOW.

5. We wouldn't owe Dooley a buyout.

6. We wouldn't be in such a big financial mess.

7. No burning mattresses.

8. No Dooley at all. Which means no bamboo, no orange dog, no Rommel, no shower etiquette. Heck, if someone asked us about him, we'd still be saying, "Who?"

9. Had Fulmer not been fired midseason in 2008, I truly believe that team was bowl bound. You guys talk about how he had 2 losing seasons in his last 4 years, but fail to mention that the Wyoming loss most likely wouldn't have happened if the players hadn't had a total backlash against the administration. That team should have been 6-6 with a chance at the Liberty Bowl or something. A bowl win there, and the team is 7-6. That's the same exact record Kiffin had, yet so many people say he worked wonders here.

10. Coaches hired in 2010 include: Jimbo Fisher, Charlie Strong, Willie Taggart, Brian Kelly.. And oh yeah, bUTch Jones. Any one of those coaches could have landed here if Kiffin had not left us scrambling in the middle of the night a couple weeks before NSD.

I don't know what else to say. I just wish I couldn't see that well into the past.
 
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#91
#91
I am not defending Fulmer, but I am very fond of him. He is essentially the only coach I knew growing up a Vol fan. Everyone has that favorite guy that they remember when they attended or watched their first Vol game. My first recollection is watching those "orange guys" running through a T. (Exact words at 3 years old)

However, I have 2 things that people see as loyalism or not facing reality, but I feel they deserve some truth.

1. I think that Fulmer showed in his past that he could always rebound when seasons (W-L Wise) went rough. Just go through his W-L Records year by year. Another thing is this area was recruiting. Yes it was failing big time. Remember everyone loving Kenny O'neal as this awesome JUCO? People had hesitance towards CP as well. However, Fulmer's last class was on its way up. He had a QB to build around and Boyd prolly would have been a 4 year starter. Can't say that definitively because we don't know.

2. (And this was my biggest problem) Name one person that was equally qualified or better than Fulmer to replace him? You can't say Kiffin because there were certain unknowns in the Hiring process. After his first season, VN felt great. Hell, I did too. But, a HC is just there for Coaching. He is also there for compliance, loyalty, and being there for UT. Now ADs across the country are supposed to have a list of coaches to hire if they become open to looking for a new coach. I think Hamilton messed it up if he decided to start looking the way he did. Not one person he interviewed had any track record equal or better to Fulmer's last 5 years. His last 5 years is the generally the average of what folks said his decline started. (Once again, people argue 2001 and some say 2003 or 05. I don't care just making an average of it.)

In conclusion, I agree, had we kept him and averaged 8 wins a season the last 4 years, people would be clamoring for why not firing him. However, I think we would not see the fiscal effects and what has happened. We wouldn't see the attrition we have seen. We wouldn't see the roller coaster of emotion we have seen. Kiffin would have been the perfect OC HC in waiting. Why? Because he was an outsider. I never liked we gave him the keys to the car and said take off. I only liked him until after season 1. The nail in the coffin for Fulmer was hiring the wrong OC. It came out that Clawson was gonna be the unofficial Head Coach in Waiting to take over in 4 or 5 years. So around now, Fulmer would be gone or on his way out. Can you really say the last 4 years were better than keeping Fulmer? Fulmer was fired up. Hell, if I was at my job for that long and they approached me about firing, I would do whatever possible to keep my job. I really think Fulmer would have shaken the staff and fixed it. But in the end, WE DON"T KNOW. Just like the "Keep Fulmer Crowd" DID NOT KNOW that the last 4 years happened the way it did.

Anyway, that is my 50 cents.
 
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#92
#92
tm3 said:
You do realize that he had 2 losing seasons out of his last 4, and that the reason there were 2 walk ons starting on the O line in 09 and essentially all freshmen on the O line in 10 were due to his recruiting, or rather lack thereof, don't you?
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The part about the OL is revisionist history.

Facts: Vols went to 2 SECCGs in his last 5 years (including the year before he was fired) and the reason there was a shortage of offensive linemen in 09 is because Kiffin ran off about 4 or 5 OL when he got here.

Other facts include; UT had a top 5 recruiting class committed when he was fired. UT's winning pct from 01 to 08 was right at 65%, the same as Majors' winning pct for his entire time at UT.

Fulmer grew up in Tennessee, he played for Tennessee, and he knew the traditions. He would have bounced back because he loved the job. Just like Johnny Majors, he was a Volunteer.


Look, he's gone and he's not coming back. Why do so many of you spend so much effort denigrating the 2nd best coach in UT history.
 
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#93
#93
john barnhill (he coached the vols to their last appearance in the rose bowl), later coach and athletic director at arkansas once said, "you can't pay a bad coach too little nor a good one too much." look at dooley and his five million dollar golden parachute. mike hamilton stood what barnhill said on its head.
 
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#94
#94
Hammy - not the best hires in the world, poor overall administration, poor handling of hiring/firing and related contracts

Fulmer - allowed a poor player culture to fester, recruiting/talent went downhill after Cutcliffe originally left, hired/handcuffed Clawson

Various University Leadership Personnel - made recruiting and budgeting more difficult for athletic department during downspell

Kiffin - Added extremely temporary talent that further embodied 'thug' culture and made situation worse through general awfulness

Dooley - Essentially extended our low-point for the length of his tenure

Some of the players over the years - helped create a 'thug' culture, made some really dumb decisions that casted negative light on the program and early exits for some of our most talented players.

Fans - were not patient and supportive during some of the rougher years and transitions
 
#95
#95
Stevorino said:
Hammy - not the best hires in the world, poor overall administration, poor handling of hiring/firing and related contracts

Fulmer - allowed a poor player culture to fester, recruiting/talent went downhill after Cutcliffe originally left, hired/handcuffed Clawson

Various University Leadership Personnel - made recruiting and budgeting more difficult for athletic department during downspell

Kiffin - Added extremely temporary talent that further embodied 'thug' culture and made situation worse through general awfulness

Dooley - Essentially extended our low-point for the length of his tenure

Some of the players over the years - helped create a 'thug' culture, made some really dumb decisions that casted negative light on the program and early exits for some of our most talented players.

Fans - were not patient and supportive during some of the rougher years and transitions
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Ultimately it's on the administration.. Fans are fans.. There will always be a portion of a fanbase that is fair weathered and will voice their opinions. It's the administration's job to not let it get to where it is.. They failed.
 
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#96
#96
JMSqb11 said:
I am not defending Fulmer, but I am very fond of him. He is essentially the only coach I knew growing up a Vol fan. Everyone has that favorite guy that they remember when they attended or watched their first Vol game. My first recollection is watching those "orange guys" running through a T. (Exact words at 3 years old)

However, I have 2 things that people see as loyalism or not facing reality, but I feel they deserve some truth.

1. I think that Fulmer showed in his past that he could always rebound when seasons (W-L Wise) went rough. Just go through his W-L Records year by year. Another thing is this area was recruiting. Yes it was failing big time. Remember everyone loving Kenny O'neal as this awesome JUCO? People had hesitance towards CP as well. However, Fulmer's last class was on its way up. He had a QB to build around and Boyd prolly would have been a 4 year starter. Can't say that definitively because we don't know.

2. (And this was my biggest problem) Name one person that was equally qualified or better than Fulmer to replace him? You can't say Kiffin because there were certain unknowns in the Hiring process. After his first season, VN felt great. Hell, I did too. But, a HC is just there for Coaching. He is also there for compliance, loyalty, and being there for UT. Now ADs across the country are supposed to have a list of coaches to hire if they become open to looking for a new coach. I think Hamilton messed it up if he decided to start looking the way he did. Not one person he interviewed had any track record equal or better to Fulmer's last 5 years. His last 5 years is the generally the average of what folks said his decline started. (Once again, people argue 2001 and some say 2003 or 05. I don't care just making an average of it.)

In conclusion, I agree, had we kept him and averaged 8 wins a season the last 4 years, people would be clamoring for why not firing him. However, I think we would not see the fiscal effects and what has happened. We wouldn't see the attrition we have seen. We wouldn't see the roller coaster of emotion we have seen. Kiffin would have been the perfect OC HC in waiting. Why? Because he was an outsider. I never liked we gave him the keys to the car and said take off. I only liked him until after season 1. The nail in the coffin for Fulmer was hiring the wrong OC. It came out that Clawson was gonna be the unofficial Head Coach in Waiting to take over in 4 or 5 years. So around now, Fulmer would be gone or on his way out. Can you really say the last 4 years were better than keeping Fulmer? Fulmer was fired up. Hell, if I was at my job for that long and they approached me about firing, I would do whatever possible to keep my job. I really think Fulmer would have shaken the staff and fixed it. But in the end, WE DON"T KNOW. Just like the "Keep Fulmer Crowd" DID NOT KNOW that the last 4 years happened the way it did.

Anyway, that is my 50 cents.
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It's hard - because we all clearly have the asset of retrospect now. That being said, two things were definitely different from the first half of his tenure and second half:

1. His recruiting year-over-year. At the beginning, Fulmer was picking up great players that everyone wanted. At the end, he was getting legacies (Berry), average players, and high-talent players with off-the field risk.

2. The SEC in the 90's and early 00's was ok, but not what it would become in the mid 00's and beyond.


Here are some other hires that happened in 2009 and 2010 that look good now:


2009
Dan Mullen - MSU
Brady Hoke - San Diego State
Steve Sarkisian - Washington (iffy)

2010

Cincinnati - Butch Jones
Florida State - Jimbo Fischer
Notre Dame - Brian Kelly
 
#97
#97
Backwards K said:
Fulmer grew up in Tennessee, he played for Tennessee, and he knew the traditions. He would have bounced back because he loved the job. Just like Johnny Majors, he was a Volunteer.
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OK, thanks, i think i get it now.

jack nicklaus has won more masters tournaments than any other golfer in history. he should bounce back and be the odds on favorite come this april.

bobby bowden is one of the winningest coaches in football history. some school should snap him up so that he can bounce back next fall.

phil fulmer had a spectacular career at UT, he was on the verge of bouncing back and might have even "won the east" again. some other school just needs to step in and hire him and benefit from the bounce and go on to win championships and ........ crickets.
 
#99
#99
knoxvols1 said:
If we had kept Fulmer we would still be right here but would be commenting why not fire him years ago!
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I don't know how you could say that. In 2006, if Ainge hadn't gotten hurt, we would have most likely played in a BCS bowl. Probably the sugar bowl. We lost to Florida (eventual national champions) by 1 point, and should have won that game if not for a piece of horrible officiating. After that, we rolled until Ainge got hurt. In 2007, we backed into an SEC championship game, sure, but we still won where we needed to to get there. We even had LSU (eventual national champion) on the ropes until the 4th quarter. Ainge's interceptions in that game weren't Fulmer's fault. Had we been able to just hold on, we play in the Sugar Bowl. It's just unfortunate.
 
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