I have a question for some of the Political forum regulars....

#426
#426
droski said:
money is fungible. maybe that gift allowed them to be able to spend money elsewhere, but the fact remains it's laughable for eric to imply the money he gives to his church is all about charity.
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Dorski is right on this, but the Stained glass windows are not built by the church, but usually donated by someone in the congregation, and are meant to be used as "teaching devices"

Stained glass windows were orginally used to illustrate Bible stories to people who A) couldnt read B) couldnt afford books because printing presses were not yet invented
 
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#427
#427
DinkinFlicka said:
And that prevents it from being wasteful and ridiculous?

Didn't Jesus preach against finer things and luxurious possessions?
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When people give a gift like that, is the Church supposed to say, no, we don't want it? And in most cases those families have given a lot of money in charity through the years anyway.
 
#428
#428
VolsNSkinsFan said:
Dorski is right on this, but the Stained glass windows are not built by the church, but usually donated by someone in the congregation, and are meant to be used as "teaching devices"

Stained glass wondows were orginally used to illustrate Bible stories to people who A) couldnt read B) couldnt afford books because printing presses were not yet invented
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Tell me, what can be learned from this behemoth?

http://www.sacredarchitecture.org/images/uploads/IMG_1050_sm_thumb.jpg
 
#429
#429
golfballs03 said:
Most charities have overhead. I think most people realize that there is overhead in the Church to, but continue to give because they think it's worth it. It's a matter of opinion.
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there is a huge difference between overhead and the type of building eric's church has. personally i don't give to charities that waste money on things like large executive salaries and fancy offices. but as i said before i don't care what you spend your money on or what you do with your time. just don't claim moral superiority where there is none.
 
#430
#430
Money is not evil in and of itself.

"The" church is not defined by printed membership rolls or any building. The earliest churches didn't even meet in buildings that they called their "church".

"The" church is made up of those who accept Christ as Lord and Savior then follow him ALL according to the principles and doctrines of the NT.
 
#431
#431
T-TownVol said:
i have not called for a "paddywagon" in years....how about you Beech?
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Heck, we skip the county lock up.
We have a cemetery out back.:)

Im sure he could find a church that would that, you could find churches that do a lot of things that you nor I agree with.
 
#432
#432
golfballs03 said:
When people give a gift like that, is the Church supposed to say, no, we don't want it? And in most cases those families have given a lot of money in charity through the years anyway.
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If I were the head honcho of a church, I wouldn't want any symbol of decadence constantly being advertised to anyone who looks at that building.

Necessary renovations? Sure. Host a charity event? Sure. Buy new Bibles and instruments? Sure.
 
#433
#433
VolsNSkinsFan said:
Dorski is right on this, but the Stained glass windows are not built by the church, but usually donated by someone in the congregation, and are meant to be used as "teaching devices"

Stained glass windows were orginally used to illustrate Bible stories to people who A) couldnt read B) couldnt afford books because printing presses were not yet invented
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it's not just the stained glass windows. it's the fancy offices, sunday school facilities, pews, gyms, sound systems, etc etc. don't tell me you need all this stuff to spread the word.
 
#434
#434
droski said:
it's not just the stained glass windows. it's the fancy offices, sunday school facilities, pews, gyms, sound systems, etc etc. don't tell me you need all this stuff to spread the word.
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What ever happened to a simple chapel with lines of chairs and a bunch of folks just singing?


Ah well... I just realized how long I've been sitting here. I have a meeting to go to, but I appreciate the discussion gents. Very engaging.
 
#435
#435
droski said:
there is a huge difference between overhead and the type of building eric's church has. personally i don't give to charities that waste money on things like large executive salaries and fancy offices. but as i said before i don't care what you spend your money on or what you do with your time. just don't claim moral superiority where there is none.
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I completely agree. Regardless of the costs associated with building places like that, I feel like they tend to stray away from what's important, and their services feel more like entertainment than actual reflection and worship.
 
#440
#440
droski said:
why is it all or nothing for you? either he's a killer or he isn't? either you have to follow everything he does or nothing? no shades of gray?
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Just comparing the foundations of the two faiths. Forget any digressions over history. Going back to the original. Just like people go back to original intent on laws, the founding fathers on the Constitution, etc. etc. Just proving a point that the actions of people who stray from a belief centuries later do not equate to the original teachings and actions within that belief.

Comparisons were made between Christianity and Islam. I went back to the source on each. It appears the violence in Islam has roots in its foundation. Christianity's violence does not have roots at its foundation. Again, I can take your 100 year after the fact boundary and compare both faiths and see completely opposite actions. It's not a matter of following everything a belief states. It's about what the belief actually states and the source's actions in living that belief and facilitating the spread of that belief.
 
#442
#442
sjt18 said:
Money is not evil in and of itself.

"The" church is not defined by printed membership rolls or any building. The earliest churches didn't even meet in buildings that they called their "church".

"The" church is made up of those who accept Christ as Lord and Savior then follow him ALL according to the principles and doctrines of the NT.
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Thank you SJ....he just does not have the knowledge he thinks he has about the Bible. Every answer was more wrong.
 
#445
#445
g8terh8ter_eric said:
I see some of you that get into a discussion about faith/religion, and yet, you don't have a stake in either. How can you even argue for or against something you don't believe in yourself?? What does it matter to you, other to just have an opinion or try to question another's faith/religion??

I mean, the people in this forum that actually have a relationship with Jesus Christ have a stake in this. We are being told that we have to keep our mouths shut because we should be tolerant, but in all actuality, we are just being told that we aren't the current and latest religious fad and need to let others come before our wants and needs in the political world.

I'm going to tell you this much, if Islam has it's way over here in the West, this country is going to get torn down from the inside out. Christians, atheists, and agnostics alike are going to be put in a VERY bad place, IF our government continues to preach tolerance/freedom of religion in the case of Islam. I mean, if people can't see that the Taliban doesn't want our education, our medicine, our technology, and just wants to kill us, then this country is in for truly desperate times.

I have typically stayed out from the spotlight in this whole mess, but they are even trying to build one less than a mile from our church, so I figured it's time for me to speak out. These people, while most here claim to be peaceful and most are, come from a VERY violent background. Their Mideast counterparts live only to see us die and be killed in the name of Muhammad. I've NEVER, NOT ONCE, known anyone to actually kill in the name of Jesus Christ, and if anyone ever has, they weren't even Christian to begin with. Our Scripture is VERY forthright about violence, it DOES NOT condone it in any, way, shape, or form. Now, if you are in the military, you can be in the military and still be a Godly man or woman. Just don't go killing in the name of God or Jesus.

I really hope some of you understand what you are telling us Christians, because the past couple of days have really opened my eyes to what some of you believe and how quick you are to cast stones at us, because you think we aren't "tolerant". We have been the major faith based religion for the entire time that this country has been established. Many of our ancestors who built this country up from the ground level were Christians, but not all obviously. I just hope you know that our people have bled overseas to protect the rights of everyone over here, my wife included, and yet the government allows those same people we fight over there to claim peacefulness over here and still build their places of worship that promotes something completely different than what they are personally standing for over here.

I really hope that one of these days, our government stands up and actually protects the people from a theology as dangerous as Islam, but unfortunately our country is only a little over 200 years old, and will have MANY growing pains as it gets more mature.

God Bless. :hi:
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God bless you too.

The people to which you address your post have very little idea of what is at stake.

I do disagree with you on one point, I believe Jesus did give us room to act in our own self defense.
 
#446
#446
g8terh8ter_eric said:
Worldly people trying to tear down people that believe. It's an everyday struggle. As Jesus said, if people won't receive your message, dust off your feet and leave them. That's what I am doing with this thread. A bunch of worldly people who have no clue what goes on inside a church like mine, and won't attend to find out. That's clueless right there.

God bless you guys who want to keep arguing with this bunch.
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I think you should focus more on his teachings about the pharisees and the like.
 
#447
#447
CSpindizzy said:
Really? He doesn't? Do we need to go back AGAIN to bring up the references? And we're not talking him telling a story either. And you do realize he was not a 'military leader' until he started spreading his faith right? The references to killing unbelievers are for followers of Islam. Tell me where the 'cut-off' is from this never happening again. This is an ongoing tenet of the followers of Islam.

Show me where David commanded Jews to continuously wage war and kill all non-believers into some future and ongoing struggle. Not sure why you keep bringing David into this after we were discussing Christianity and Islam and not Jewish history.
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Pretty sure killing enemies in an ongoing struggle wasn't necessary, when you wipe them out and enslave their children and women.
 
#448
#448
IPorange said:
I think you should focus more on his teachings about the pharisees and the like.
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How about His teachings about false prophets such as muhammed is???

The practices of the pharisees and the like are pretty much immateriel in this discussion, are they not??




IPorange said:
Pretty sure killing enemies in an ongoing struggle wasn't necessary, when you wipe them out and enslave their children and women.
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Over 800 million people have been slaughtered in the name of islam and over twice that number enslaved.

What have you to say of that??
 
#450
#450
T-TownVol said:
Thank you SJ....he just does not have the knowledge he thinks he has about the Bible. Every answer was more wrong.
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Seriously? You're listening to someone who said money isn't a diabolical device?

Oh wait, he dropped a couple of stock lines heard from the mouth of your average preacher during your average Sunday service. Damn, outplayed again!
 
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