I would rather be banned from NCAA tourney

[tvolsfan]

remember when we made the tourney every year and went deeper than ever under that jewish guy? that coach lost some regular season games he shouldn't have, therefore he and 'zo are on par with each other. lolololololololol.

What do you think Tennessee's record is last year without Tobias Harris, Scotty Hopson, Brian Williams, and the other seniors on the team?

 

[Incipient]

remember when we made the tourney every year and went deeper than ever under that jewish guy? that coach lost some regular season games he shouldn't have, therefore he and 'zo are on par with each other. lolololololololol.

Remember when we when made the tourney every year and went as deep as ever under that dude we hired from Oregon? Just said one stupid thing and we lost him, ended up having to put up with some Jewish guy.

 

[LibertyVol]

So the resume prior to Tennessee is just entirely meaningless?

I really do not care what he did coaching junior high ball. He is in the big leagues now and he is not getting it done.

If the team sucked last year, I might be a little more patient. If the team had no offense, I might be a little patient. But this team plays absolutely no defense. They get lit up every night no matter who they play. To me that is on the coach.

 

[LibertyVol]

Remember when we when made the tourney every year and went as deep as ever under that dude we hired from Oregon? Just said one stupid thing and we lost him, ended up having to put up with some Jewish guy.

If you think Jerry Green was as good a coach as Pearl you are on dope.

After Green was fired everybody wanted to hire him.

 

[Incipient]

I really do not care what he did coaching junior high ball. He is in the big leagues now and he is not getting it done.

If the team sucked last year, I might be a little more patient. If the team had no offense, I might be a little patient. But this team plays absolutely no defense. They get lit up every night no matter who they play. To me that is on the coach.

So basically you're saying that it's better to judge a man on nine SEC games than on three seasons in the MVC. Gotcha.

 

[Incipient]

If you think Jerry Green was as good a coach as Pearl you are on dope.

After Green was fired everybody wanted to hire him.

Yeah, I know he didn't get along that well with that lot at H.T. Hackney, but that's hardly a reason to say he was a worse coach.

 

[LibertyVol]

What do you think Tennessee's record is last year without Tobias Harris, Scotty Hopson, Brian Williams, and the other seniors on the team?

That is a good point. Tennessee does not have many upper classman and that does make a difference.

However, how many upper classman did Pearl have when he showed up.

 

[LibertyVol]

Yeah, I know he didn't get along that well with that lot at H.T. Hackney, but that's hardly a reason to say he was a worse coach.

To compare Green to Pearl is laughable. I would rather have Martin than Green.

 

[Incipient]

That is a good point. Tennessee does not have many upper classman and that does make a difference.

However, how many upper classman did Pearl have when he showed up.

Well, he did have a senior point guard who's been in the NBA for four years.

 

[Incipient]

To compare Green to Pearl is laughable. I would rather have Martin than Green.

I would rather have a lot of people than Green. Just pointing out that the "why didn't we keep the guy who had us in the tournament every year" bit applies just as well to Green as to Pearl

 

[LibertyVol]

So basically you're saying that it's better to judge a man on nine SEC games than on three seasons in the MVC. Gotcha.

Ok. You may be right. It might be a little early to say he is Wade Houston Jr. But damn these guys can't stop a high school team. I just do not see any reason to be so bad on defense.

Please explain to me why you think it is going to get any better.

 

[LibertyVol]

So basically you're saying that it's better to judge a man on nine SEC games than on three seasons in the MVC. Gotcha.

Ok. Maybe it is a little early to say Martin is Wade Houston Jr. But damn, these guys get lit up every night. That is on the coach.

Please explain to me why you think it is going to get better.

 

[Incipient]

Ok. You may be right. It might be a little early to say he is Wade Houston Jr. But damn these guys can't stop a high school team. I just do not see any reason to be so bad on defense.

Please explain to me why you think it is going to get any better.

Because we've been absolutely shutdown in the first 15 minutes of games. Shows good game-planning. That it falls off says either bad adjustments or that an inexperienced group of players isn't mentally tough.

When posed with that question, you ask yourself two questions. First, does Cuonzo Martin have a history of bad adjustments? Given his MVC record, I doubt it. Now does this team have either a history of being mentally weak or have a lot of youth? It has both. So right now I'm going to default to saying it's the fault of inexperience and/or mental weakness. If it still looks like this next year, we can revisit the question.

 

[LibertyVol]

Because we've been absolutely shutdown in the first 15 minutes of games. Shows good game-planning. That it falls off says either bad adjustments or that an inexperienced group of players isn't mentally tough.

When posed with that question, you ask yourself two questions. First, does Cuonzo Martin have a history of bad adjustments? Given his MVC record, I doubt it. Now does this team have either a history of being mentally weak or have a lot of youth? It has both. So right now I'm going to default to saying it's the fault of inexperience and/or mental weakness. If it still looks like this next year, we can revisit the question.

That is true and I can see where you are coming from, but to me there is no excuse to lose to an Austin Peay.

However, I have to admit I like the motion offense. At times it has looked good. They are actually setting screens to get guys shots. I used to get a little frustrated with Pearl's teams because he was a little less structured and let the guys get their own shots.

 

[Incipient]

That is true and I can see where you are coming from, but to me there is no excuse to lose to an Austin Peay.

However, I have to admit I like the motion offense. At times it has looked good. They are actually setting screens to get guys shots. I used to get a little frustrated with Pearl's teams because he was a little less structured and let the guys get their own shots.

No, there's no excuse for it. But you can't fire a guy (or make the decision that he's going to be Wade Houston 2.0) every time he loses a game that he has no excuse to lose. You would've fired Nick Saban after his first season at Alabama, and you would've fired Bruce Pearl in his sixth season at Tennessee (despite his first five seasons screaming that he was an actually good coach).

Right now, I'm just hoping the stretches of good play keep getting longer, and maybe by Cuonzo's 2nd or 3rd year the whole game looks like that. Because if our whole games looked like the stretches of good play, we'd be somewhere between 7-2 and 9-0 right now.

Another thing that has me wanting to refrain from passing too complete of judgement early is that his first Missouri State team also took a big hit from the previous year (they had gone 8-10 in conference the year before, went 3-15 in Cuonzo's first year) but he pulled them back out the next two years (up to 15-3 his last year)

 

[LibertyVol]

No, there's no excuse for it. But you can't fire a guy (or make the decision that he's going to be Wade Houston 2.0) every time he loses a game that he has no excuse to lose. You would've fired Nick Saban after his first season at Alabama, and you would've fired Bruce Pearl in his sixth season at Tennessee (despite his first five seasons screaming that he was an actually good coach).

Right now, I'm just hoping the stretches of good play keep getting longer, and maybe by Cuonzo's 2nd or 3rd year the whole game looks like that. Because if our whole games looked like the stretches of good play, we'd be somewhere between 7-2 and 9-0 right now.

Another thing that has me wanting to refrain from passing too complete of judgement early is that his first Missouri State team also took a big hit from the previous year (they had gone 8-10 in conference the year before, went 3-15 in Cuonzo's first year) but he pulled them back out the next two years (up to 15-3 his last year)

Actually if you think about it that way, they might be closer than you think to playing some decent basketball by the end of the year. The league is very weak and if they can play defense like they did in the first half against C of C they may suprise some people. But my gracious they have looked terrible at times. Bad enough where I question whether this guy can coach. I know Pearl can coach so when they hit periods where they sucked I did not get too excited knowing that it would probably get better. With Martin, I do not have that confidence.

 

[Incipient]

Actually if you think about it that way, they might be closer than you think to playing some decent basketball by the end of the year. The league is very weak and if they can play defense like they did in the first half against C of C they may suprise some people. But my gracious they have looked terrible at times. Bad enough where I question whether this guy can coach. I know Pearl can coach so when they hit periods where they sucked I did not get too excited knowing that it would probably get better. With Martin, I do not have that confidence.

Fair enough. Pearl earned your confidence early, Martin hasn't done that yet. But Martin is also presiding over awful stretches with a lot of the same players that had so many awful stretches under Pearl. So it's not like this year proves he's a bad coach. Does it prove he's a good coach? No. Do we have five years of success at the SEC level to fall back on? No. We have some MVC success, so we know he's not completely terrible, but we don't have enough to assure us that he'll be good.

All I'm asking is for people to give Martin his fair couple years. Just because Pearl had great success his first year doesn't mean all good coaches do. If next year our team is still disappearing for 20 minute stretches and our recruiting looks iffy at best, we can start talking about criteria for keeping or firing him. But in his first year, the fans should at least withhold judgment and try to do their best to help him succeed (buying tickets, not calling for his firing after every loss, things like that).

And yeah, I'm not really sure how far away we are. There are stretches where we look like we're there and stretches where we look like we couldn't be farther. All about how long it takes to get the team to stay in the good stretches and snap out of the bad ones.

 

[mgv]

No, there's no excuse for it. But you can't fire a guy (or make the decision that he's going to be Wade Houston 2.0) every time he loses a game that he has no excuse to lose. You would've fired Nick Saban after his first season at Alabama, and you would've fired Bruce Pearl in his sixth season at Tennessee (despite his first five seasons screaming that he was an actually good coach).

Are you really comparing a coach that won a NC with LSU in his first year to Martin - Saban was proven, he could have lost to Maryville HS and kept his job that year. Pearl comment does not even make sense, he had winning record every season and consistently made it to the tournament.

Right now, I'm just hoping the stretches of good play keep getting longer, and maybe by Cuonzo's 2nd or 3rd year the whole game looks like that. Because if our whole games looked like the stretches of good play, we'd be somewhere between 7-2 and 9-0 right now.

True, but still lost and that is what he is judged on. The stupid thing of it is if we only had some defense we probably would be 7-2, because offensively we have averaged 8 points higher than last year. I am not sure Cuonzo is quite the defensive mind everyone makes him out to be on the court.

 

[Incipient]

Are you really comparing a coach that won a NC with LSU in his first year to Martin - Saban was proven, he could have lost to Maryville HS and kept his job that year. Pearl comment does not even make sense, he had winning record every season and consistently made it to the tournament.

If you had, you know, bothered reading before responding, you would see that it makes plenty of sense.

True, but still lost and that is what he is judged on. The stupid thing of it is if we only had some defense we probably would be 7-2, because offensively we have averaged 8 points higher than last year. I am not sure Cuonzo is quite the defensive mind everyone makes him out to be on the court.

As I've been saying, it's year one of a rebuilding job. You don't judge a coach by wins and losses in year one of a long rebuilding job unless he does something amazing. That's idiotic. You judge a coach by what happens in year two or three or sometimes even longer. Until then, you look for stretches of good play and hope for their extension.

 

[calban]

Though you might not like the results so far, Martin is doing it the right way (IMO).

He has stated that he doesn't like the losses but is encouraged by the determination of his players in practice to improve and learn.

He also seems to know why we're losing games.
Poor ball security (untimely turnovers), lapses in defensive effort and failure to get the ball inside for the high percentage shot.

His patience with his players and his stubbornness to not change his system , could pay off in the long run.

Of course there are also many who believe it will be his eventual demise.

Right now it's a matter of opinion.
By March it could be a matter of fact either way.
I'm waiting to see.

 

[TheTennesseeTom]

Look, Pearl took the job with Hackney to stay close to the people around Knoxville. 2 more years we fire Martin, Bruce's show cause is up and he's back at UT! It just kept the entire program from being penalized severly.

 

[therealUT]

Though you might not like the results so far, Martin is doing it the right way (IMO).

He has stated that he doesn't like the losses but is encouraged by the determination of his players in practice to improve and learn.

What else is he going to say? "I do not like the losses and, on top of that, my players are not trying in practice"?

He also seems to know why we're losing games.
Poor ball security (untimely turnovers), lapses in defensive effort and failure to get the ball inside for the high percentage shot.

The latter two should have been fixed halfway through the AP game.

His patience with his players and his stubbornness to not change his system , could pay off in the long run.

For now, his stubbornness in his system is costing UT any chance of seeing postseason play and could be costing UT recruits.

Of course there are also many who believe it will be his eventual demise.

Yep.

Right now it's a matter of opinion.
By March it could be a matter of fact either way.
I'm waiting to see.

Hopefully, he changes his system and adapts to the strengths of this team.

 

[THE SOZ]

With the exception of maybe Maymon, there isn't a single player on this team that would have seen 5min/game on Pearl's first team. Maybe if Pearl had left Martin the same talent he inherited things might be a bit different.

Tatum started for Bruce dumb ass.:yes:

 

[PoochPunt3rdDown]

Pearl lost Crawford to U of M straight up. Ware and Jones didn't qualify; Ware just got his first game action for UL yesterday. He sure as hell wasn't going to land any more studs in last year's class.

Too bad Pearl screwed the pooch, or else the 2012 class would have been very special.

Take that back! He did no such thing....

 

[Incipient]

Tatum started for Bruce dumb ass.:yes:

And I thought Tatum was still in high school when Lofton, JuJuan, and Watson were our starting backcourt. Silly me.