If the SEC expands to 16 teams

#26
#26
dcgators said:
i agree that GA Tech may not want in either. just stating that they would be the only other candidate with a decent football and good basketball programs that happens to be an AAU member.

the SEC loves to say in its TV ads that we have excellent academics to go along with our talent on the field of play...
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yeah slive's played up the AAU increase quite a bit since the addition of Mizzou and A&M (as well as somewhat how it's made us look relative to other conferences...namely the big 12)

I see what you're getting at here, however I think they're pretty much near the same area of feeling they were at when they stormed out of the conference to form their own.


Also I have to say that, while AAU can be important and a big plus when the argument for addition has to be presented to the university president's, the SEC's not the Big 10...it's not the end all in the conference's decision process, it seems that market size is; it can still be a big plus, especially when alongside a big market, however



(and big market-wise...UNC would also fall into the nice area you're claiming while also having AAU membership...just would depend on how they actually view/feel about the conference)
 
#27
#27
Weezer said:
Any expansion would be driven by football, not basketball. I understand basketball fans wanting to add some better teams, but football is the revenue sport for the SEC. We are first and foremost a football conference.

Any expansion would have to take us into new markets. Slive has said he and the SEC ADs are happy at 14. Translation, unless it makes us more money, we won't be adding more schools. Personally, I would think OU and OSU would be good competitive adds, but I don't think they add much more market than we are already getting from TAMU and Mizzou. Plus I think they're too scared to play an SEC schedule. My personal guess is we won't expand if we don't have to.
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I agree with that... I couldn't see the sec allowing teams in specific to only one sport.
 
#28
#28
bigfredtn said:
Ga Tech will not be invited to the SEC. Ga Tech was a member of the SEC and they left the conference.
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An individual person may think with their pride but the sec would make a buisness decision. If what is best for the sec is to include Gtech then I would expect them not to hesitate.
 
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#29
#29
from a geographical standpoint, i would think adding UVA and UNC make sense if they are added to the SEC East. move Mizzou the West where it really belongs. both would be new markets for the SEC.

with the right coaching (and money from the SEC), both should be able to field competitive teams in football.

and besides, if football was the only criteria for remaining a member of the SEC, Vandy would have been sent packing a long time ago... and so would UK and MSU... heck, even USCe was touch and go for a while, until SOS landed there...
 
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#30
#30
Vol8188 said:
Lol UVA? Who would want UVA?
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The league might want the Virginia/DC market added for TV rights. Plus UVA would add another high academic institution (along with UNC) to the conference.

In each instance of expansion (South Carolina, Arkansas, Texas, Missouri) they have added a new, unique state. I don't see the SEC adding two teams from a single state, like a UNC/Duke combo, nor adding a team like FSU, that resides in a state with a current member.
 
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#31
#31
tshadow said:
Of course they can. If they expanded to 16 teams as has been posted before they could split into four sub divisions (I'd suggest n,s,e,w). That would be three games for each team in their own subdivision plus one from each of the other subdivisions. That's six games leaving four floating games to fill with non-conference games. Then a semi-conference championship game followed by a conference championship game to make 12 games followed by whatever bowl the conference champion would participate in.
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the NCAA would have to pass a rule (pretty much for the SEC alone) for the conference to do so (for relative example, the whole 12+divisions+conference championship set up was already in the rule books, just only being used by a lower level; it wasn't something the SEC came up on it's own).


Otherwise they might have to do something like the WAC did to get around the current rules in the books:

In 1996, the WAC expanded again, adding six schools to its ranks for a total of sixteen. Rice, TCU, and SMU joined the league from the Southwest Conference, which had disbanded. Big West Conference members San Jose State and UNLV were also admitted, as well as Tulsa from the Missouri Valley Conference.

Also, two current WAC members for men's sports, Air Force and Hawaiʻi, brought their women's sports into the WAC. With the expansion, the WAC was divided into two divisions.

To help in organizing schedules and travel for the farflung league, the members were divided into four quadrants of four teams each, as follows:

Quadrant 1 Quadrant 2 Quadrant 3 Quadrant 4
Hawaiʻi UNLV BYU Tulsa
Fresno State Air Force Utah TCU
San Diego State Colorado State New Mexico SMU
San Jose State Wyoming UTEP Rice

Quadrant one was always part of the Pacific Division, and quadrant four was always part of the Mountain Division. Quadrant two was part of the Pacific Division for 1996 and 1997 before switching to the Mountain Division in 1998, while the reverse was true for quadrant three. The scheduled fourth year of the alignment was abandoned after eight schools left to form the Mountain West Conference.

The division champions in football met from 1996 to 1998 in a championship game at Sam Boyd Stadium (also known as the Silver Bowl) in Henderson, Nevada.

Increasingly, this arrangement was not satisfactory to most of the older, pre-1990 members. Five members in particular (Air Force, BYU, Colorado State, Utah, and Wyoming) felt that WAC expansion had compromised the athletic and academic excellence of the membership.[citation needed] Additional concerns centered around finances, as the new league stretched from Hawaiʻi to Oklahoma and travel costs became a concern. In 1999, those five schools, along with old line WAC schools New Mexico and San Diego State, as well as newcomer UNLV, split off and formed the new Mountain West Conference.
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Also, i'm not sure you can do a schedule as fluid as the one you're suggesting without either 1) every team agreeing to give up 2 OOC of the 12 max games to leave those last 2 spots open (which they'd raise h-ll over likely) or 2) having an extremely fluid schedule which - with how far in advance these games are booked, have tickets printed, and are sold - I'm not sure how possible/realistic or manageable that could actually be in the end
 
#32
#32
bigfredtn said:
Ga Tech will not be invited to the SEC. Ga Tech was a member of the SEC and they left the conference.
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I disagree... I know they were a founding member of the SEC and chose to leave. However if the SEC was to benefit from welcoming them back into the family (as in $$$ talk$), they would be invited in a nanosecond.

still not sure they would join us though...

and the SEC would not gain a new market... we already have ATL via UGA...
 
#33
#33
Weezer said:
Any expansion would be driven by football, not basketball. I understand basketball fans wanting to add some better teams, but football is the revenue sport for the SEC. We are first and foremost a football conference.

Any expansion would have to take us into new markets. Slive has said he and the SEC ADs are happy at 14. Translation, unless it makes us more money, we won't be adding more schools. Personally, I would think OU and OSU would be good competitive adds, but I don't think they add much more market than we are already getting from TAMU and Mizzou. Plus I think they're too scared to play an SEC schedule. My personal guess is we won't expand if we don't have to.
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That's about how I feel! Most ego driven schools complain about the sec dominance but they are scared to come over and play this schedule. I personally would like to see Clemson and Florida state but Florida and sc would not allow that! Both are probably scared also.
 
#34
#34
I like the indiana idea. Pushing into the same state as Notre Dame... Strengthening Indiana to compete with Notre Dame in their state market... Could be interesting.
 
#35
#35
tshadow said:
An individual person may think with their pride but the sec would make a buisness decision. If what is best for the sec is to include Gtech then I would expect them not to hesitate.
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Except we would have already heard interest from them if such were the case. It's not a pride thing, it's partially that the powers that be care about the image that being in the ACC also gives their university as a whole


In all likelihood their only interest comes if their conference falls completely apart and they have no other options...
 
#36
#36
UT Hill Man said:
The league might want the Virginia/DC market added for TV rights. Plus UVA would add another high academic institution (along with UNC) to the conference.

In each instance of expansion (South Carolina, Arkansas, Texas, Missouri) they have added a new, unique state. I don't see the SEC adding two teams from a single state, like a UNC/Duke combo, nor adding a team like FSU, that resides in a state with a current member.
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new market does play a factor
 
#37
#37
tshadow said:
I like the indiana idea. Pushing into the same state as Notre Dame... Strengthening Indiana to compete with Notre Dame in their state market... Could be interesting.
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While it's an interesting suggestion, IU would never leave the big 10 unless the conference forced them out
 
#38
#38
not a huge fan of going after B1G members... that's really pushing the boundaries of the SEC (and increasing travel costs for other member schools)...

and IU football? really?

or even B1G football period...

on the plus side, they are an AAU member (here i go again...) and they have a good basketball program i hear... ;)

but if that's the criteria, then why not UNC instead?
 
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#39
#39
89hoss said:
That's about how I feel! Most ego driven schools complain about the sec dominance but they are scared to come over and play this schedule. I personally would like to see Clemson and Florida state but Florida and sc would not allow that! Both are probably scared also.
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the conference also doesn't have much need to double dip in the same state...though of those two at lease FSU has somewhat more of a national following
 
#40
#40
dcgators said:
I disagree... I know they were a founding member of the SEC and chose to leave. However if the SEC was to benefit from welcoming them back into the family (as in $$$ talk$), they would be invited in a nanosecond.

still not sure they would join us though...

and the SEC would not gain a new market... we already have ATL via UGA...
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bingo on the 3rd paragraph...as well as the second (their uncertainty)
 
#41
#41
89hoss said:
That's about how I feel! Most ego driven schools complain about the sec dominance but they are scared to come over and play this schedule. I personally would like to see Clemson and Florida state but Florida and sc would not allow that! Both are probably scared also.
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uh, we already play fsu in every sport they have so we can't be that afraid to add them to our conference schedule...

yes, a loss to them would be a conference loss but a win would also be a conference win... ;)
 
#42
#42
dcgators said:
not a huge fan of going after B1G members... that's really pushing the boundaries of the SEC (and increasing travel costs for other member schools)...

and IU football? really?

or even B1G football period...

on the plus side, they are an AAU member (here i go again...) and they have a good basketball program i hear... ;)

but if that's the criteria, then why not UNC instead?
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yeah it'd be a bit much to reach that far


plus I think the Big 10 schools make about $5 mil more per school, so there's a fair chance that even if any of them were to realistically be in play (which with distance, stability, etc, I would doubt it), they might be taking a paycut through such a conference change
 
#43
#43
Weezer said:
Any expansion would be driven by football, not basketball. I understand basketball fans wanting to add some better teams, but football is the revenue sport for the SEC. We are first and foremost a football conference.

Any expansion would have to take us into new markets. Slive has said he and the SEC ADs are happy at 14. Translation, unless it makes us more money, we won't be adding more schools. Personally, I would think OU and OSU would be good competitive adds, but I don't think they add much more market than we are already getting from TAMU and Mizzou. Plus I think they're too scared to play an SEC schedule. My personal guess is we won't expand if we don't have to.
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Well maybe more market size than necessarily really good at football

Agree very much with the bold part



(And OU seems to also be more interested in getting into the PAC-12 and/or the LA market based off their last 2 flirtations with that conference)
 
#44
#44
TrueOrange said:
yeah it'd be a bit much to reach that far


plus I think the Big 10 schools make about $5 mil more per school, so there's a fair chance that even if any of them were to realistically be in play (which with distance, stability, etc, I would doubt it), they might be taking a paycut through such a conference change
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I think the travel dilema is being over stated. If split into the appropriate sub-divisions at most you are talking about only two games being of any substantial distance.
 
#45
#45
tshadow said:
I think the travel dilema is being over stated. If split into the appropriate sub-divisions at most you are talking about only two games being of any substantial distance.
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we can't split into subdivisions with a semi-final and conference championship without the NCAA actually making a special rule for the conference to do so; there's nothing in the books that would allow us to do it

the closest thing otherwise was again, similar to how the WAC handled it



(If such could get passed easily, I could understand...but the problem's that it's unknown/variable how exactly they might handle such a matter)




That said, IU or any big 10 team could well be looking at a yearly pay cut...the conference currently makes more money than the SEC (in part due to the BTN) and that amount will likely increase with the new additions...and without there being any worry of conference instability either, there's really not reason to leave
 
#46
#46
ukvols said:
There would be many ways to keep the game.
My suggestion: Four 4-team pods. Two pods per division. Rotate the pods every two years. One permanent opponent from another pod (Bama). One secondary opponent from another pod to play when the permanent opponent's pod rotates into your division. You play four teams every year (the other three teams in your pod and your permanent opponent). You play the secondary opponent four times every six years and everyone else twice each every six years.
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Would be hard to do a SEC championship game like that. If they do keep it anyway. Would have to go 8 per side
 
#48
#48
Pay cut, got it already. NCAA regs in the way, got that already. You stated unless the regs are changed... Well there is a vehicle to change those... Right?

As for Indiana having to take a pay cut... Notre Dame is the big boy on their block. With SEC tie ins Indiana might be able to offset such a cut by expanding their following and improving their recruiting base.
 
#49
#49
VolFan4Life87 said:
Is UT going to lose the yearly UT vs bama rivalry? Can a team exclusively schedule a single team from the opposing side (east/west) ?
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It is all about the $ $. If ESPN wants an annual match up between two rival teams, then it will likely happen.

When the next two teams are added, look for them to be from a large t.v. market. Houston, St. Louis area, Los Angeles, Miami, Atlanta, D.C. area, Raleigh/Durham area....

Decisions are not based on logic but are based on bringing more revenue in to the S.E.C.
Should West Virginia, Clemson, Southen Miss, Marshall etc. are added to the S.E.C., they can't add any more revenue but certain other ones can...
 
#50
#50
tshadow said:
Pay cut, got it already. NCAA regs in the way, got that already. You stated unless the regs are changed... Well there is a vehicle to change those... Right?

As for Indiana having to take a pay cut... Notre Dame is the big boy on their block. With SEC tie ins Indiana might be able to offset such a cut by expanding their following and improving their recruiting base.
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They wouldn't be able to, and honestly, Notre Dame is so much more concerned with bigger cities like Chicago and New York...I'm not sure, even were such to happen, that slapping SEC on that program would suddenly cause it to pump/beef itself up much (if at all) comparatively. Their's is less a case of little brother issues and more a case of a school that's so historically basketball first and foremost...that in ways it might possibly even be like the issues with UK's AD, less about in state competition, more about knowing where the (most) money/fan-contentment is in the athletics and making sure to keep milking that first and foremost

sorry, might have gone off a bit there...but at a lesser yearly pay, and in a new conference...it just seems like it would take more than just the SEC logo to pump up that program to a level where it could compete with Notre Dame (plus without issues regarding their current conference, I'm not even certain the following by their fanbase would change much at all like it did with say Missouri or A&M)...just seems like it would take more in their case


As for changes, it would probably have to have to be through a submitted appeal for a new (governing?) rule...it just at the same time also seems iffy though (not to say impossible, but that it could go either way) for the NCAA to grant a major change to how everyone structures/plays the game ("everyone can play another 1-2 games" setup) and write it in the rulebook just based off the wants of one conference (14-16 schools) alone, even if it was a big one like the SEC (and also if so, why didn't they already do it when they actually previously had a 16 team conference in play)
 
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