If there were 14 nick saban's in the sec

#76
#76
The OP has the most intense case of Fulmeritis I have ever seen. He also has some fascination with setting the bar low enough that we should be satisfied with being a second rate program with 1st rate facilities and history.

And... that post is absolutely ridiculous. There was a time when UGA fans could have said that they'd never be able to compete again. Bama too. Auburn... LSU...

USCe easily could have resigned themselves to 4th place in the East and 8-9 wins a season.

The attitude expressed or exposed in the OP is WHY programs stay down. They come to accept it and expect no more. And if the goal is 8-9 wins per season... what do you think the program will actually get?

That attitude is sad... pathetic.
 
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#77
#77
oregonvol said:
Won a NC and then lost his offensive coordinator and couldn't hack it without him.
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Wow. That sounds vaguely familiar...
Got fired as soon as he had his first losing season. That's been Auburn's pattern for awhile, even for guys who once had success. Thing is, they do their homework and hire successful replacements. It's crazy how it works - they want to win, so they fire guys who don't win and then expect the new guy they get to win. The odd thing is, it actually works better than making excuses all the time.
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Unfortunately... a person can only like a post once on here with a single degree of approval.

We may not always agree on everything... but I have no doubt about your desire to see UT become a perennial championship competitor.
 
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#78
#78
sjt18 said:
The OP has the most intense case of Fulmeritis I have ever seen. He also has some fascination with setting the bar low enough that we should be satisfied with being a second rate program with 1st rate facilities and history.

And... that post is absolutely ridiculous. There was a time when UGA fans could have said that they'd never be able to compete again. Bama too. Auburn... LSU...

USCe easily could have resigned themselves to 4th place in the East and 8-9 wins a season.

The attitude expressed or exposed in the OP is WHY programs stay down. They come to accept it and expect no more. And if the goal is 8-9 wins per season... what do you think the program will actually get?

That attitude is sad... pathetic.
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Hey man chill, Beattie is your basic troll, just check out every thread he starts, same bovine scatology ... lets be satisfied with 8 wins, we should a kept Phil ...on and on the trolling goes ...
 
#79
#79
Vol8188 said:
There's a lot of "good" coaches. Bill Synder is one of the greats.
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IMO the better coach has...
More bowl wins.
A winning bowl record.
Better winning percentage.
More conference titles.
Less losing seasons.
More draft picks.
Every year he gets a top 5 recruiting.
Does it in the SEC as opposed to the BIG12.

So how is Richt terrible when he is better at every statistic category compared to a great coach Bill Snyder?
 
#80
#80
fossilfiction said:
IMO the better coach has...
More bowl wins.
A winning bowl record.
Better winning percentage.
More conference titles.
Less losing seasons.
More draft picks.
Every year he gets a top 5 recruiting.
Does it in the SEC as opposed to the BIG12.

So how is Richt terrible when he is better at every statistic category compared to a great coach Bill Snyder?
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Do you know anything about k state before Snyder?
 
#82
#82
oregonvol said:
It always amazes me how badly the majority of posters on here rate Mark Richt, while making excuses for all the failures we've had in recent years.

I remember an argument here back in Dooley's 1st or 2nd year when multiple posters were arguing that Dooley should be ranked ahead of Mark Richt.

Richt has done everything at Georgia short of winning a national championship. He's had some down years, but he always seems to bounce back. He's never been like Fulmer and just been beaten by the same coach/team over and over again. He's been competitive with Florida all along. Even with his down years, he's never finished the regular season below .500.

It's funny to read on here how Richt is a bad coach and then read a few posts later that no one should say anything bad about our coach as long as he posts a tiny bit of improvement from year to year or how we should have kept Fulmer.
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I agree that Richt is a fine coach, but it is truly ironic how familiarity breeds contempt. If you posted these resumes sight unseen, you would have to conclude that they have enjoyed remarkably similar levels of success:

152-52 overall. 98-34 SEC. Nine ten-win seasons. One national championship, Two SEC championships, Six SEC Eastern Division championships. 8-7 Bowl record. Six Top Ten finishes; Three Top Five finishes.

126-45 overall. 72-32 SEC. Eight ten-win seasons. Two SEC championships, Six SEC Eastern Division championships. 8-5 Bowl record. Six Top Ten finishes; Three Top Five finishes.

I fully understand that Fulmer's career was a tale of two halves, one marked by a steady decline during its latter portion. Both Rodney Garner and David Cutcliffe left, respectively, before and after the 1998 season, which detrimentally impacted the long-term strength of Tennessee's program. Conversely, Richt’s tenure has been marked by far less of a historical dichotomy, but the net results are virtually identical.

Based on the responses from VolNation, one might conclude that Fulmer deserves none of the credit for his program’s success, but only scorn for its decline. The Georgia faithful does not seem to be as fractured but, perhaps, only because they have not gone through as precipitous a decline. Ultimately, these data seem to underscore an observation made by Spurrier, I believe, that ten years is about as long a tenure as one can expect now, even from successful coaches, before support among the fan base, boosters and administration becomes fragmented.

You are wrong about Richt's record vs. Florida, however. Lifetime, he is 5-8, but that is only because he has won three in a row against Will Muschamp. Against Spurrier, Ron Zook and Urban Meyer, he was 2-8, including a lowly 1-2 mark against Zook. See Georgia vs Florida 2001-2013.
 
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#84
#84
Volosaurus rex said:
I agree that Richt is a fine coach, but it is truly ironic how familiarity breeds contempt. If you posted these resumes sight unseen, you would have to conclude that they have enjoyed remarkably similar levels of success:

152-52 overall. 98-34 SEC. Nine ten-win seasons. One national championship, Two SEC championships, Six SEC Eastern Division championships. 8-7 Bowl record. Six Top Ten finishes; Three Top Five finishes.

126-45 overall. 72-32 SEC. Eight ten-win seasons. Two SEC championships, Six SEC Eastern Division championships. 8-5 Bowl record. Six Top Ten finishes; Three Top Five finishes.

I fully understand that Fulmer's career was a tale of two halves, one marked by a steady decline during its latter portion. Both Rodney Garner and David Cutcliffe left, respectively, before and after the 1998 season, which detrimentally impacted the long-term strength of Tennessee's program. Conversely, Richt’s tenure has been marked by far less of a historical dichotomy, but the net results are virtually identical.

Based on the responses from VolNation, one might conclude that Fulmer deserves none of the credit for his program’s success, but only scorn for its decline. The Georgia faithful does not seem to be as fractured but, perhaps, only because they have not gone through as precipitous a decline. Ultimately, these data seem to underscore an observation made by Spurrier, I believe, that ten years is about as long a tenure as one can expect now, even from successful coaches, before support among the fan base, boosters and administration becomes fragmented.

You are wrong about Richt's record vs. Florida, however. Lifetime, he is 5-8, but that is only because he has won three in a row against Will Muschamp. Against Spurrier, Ron Zook and Urban Meyer, he was 2-8, including a lowly 1-2 mark against Zook. See Georgia vs Florida 2001-2013.
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Very well said. Don't get the disdain for Fulmer. I was of the opinion that it was time for him to go in 2008, but it didn't mean I couldn't appreciate him and recognize the incredible run UT had with him as head coach, no matter the circumstances or to whom fans wanted to attribute the success during his tenure. 152-52 and an NC is not to be taken lightly, especially if 126-45 and no NC is to be heralded.
 
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#85
#85
Volosaurus rex said:
You are wrong about Richt's record vs. Florida, however. Lifetime, he is 5-8, but that is only because he has won three in a row against Will Muschamp. Against Spurrier, Ron Zook and Urban Meyer, he was 2-8, including a lowly 1-2 mark against Zook. See Georgia vs Florida 2001-2013.
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Yeah, my memory may have been a bit faulty, but then, I never claimed his record against Florida was great, just that he had been "competitive." Clearly, he wasn't that competitive. But, I guess compared to what we've gone through, it looked competitive to me. Richt has never lost for more than 3 years straight against any opponent, Florida included. That doesn't sound impressive and it probably isn't. But it is notable considering Fulmer has two separate losing streaks to Florida that are longer than that.

And to the rest of your points, comparing Fulmer and Richt, I would agree that they are very similar. The whole point of my previous post was that I don't understand all the posts on this site that call Richt a horrible coach or always rating him below coaches we have who haven't accomplished anything. I wouldn't understand it if people referred to Fulmer as a horrible coach either. But that really never happens here. People argue about whether he should have been let go or not (he should have), but I haven't seen anyone say he was terrible or that he was inferior to Dooley. And Mark Richt clearly hasn't yet reached the nadir that Fulmer reached at the end of his career.
 
#86
#86
Remy said:
Hey man chill, Beattie is your basic troll, just check out every thread he starts, same bovine scatology ... lets be satisfied with 8 wins, we should a kept Phil ...on and on the trolling goes ...
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Sadly, I think he IS a Vol fan and DOES believe what he writes. I just hope there aren't too many Vol fans like him and especially among the boosters who make decisions about the program.
 
#87
#87
Vol8188 said:
Do you know anything about k state before Snyder?
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This will add a little context to your argument. Looking at all-time records up to 1988, the year before Bill Snyder took over at Kansas State, that program was DEAD LAST in winning percentage (I-A Winning Percentage 1869-1988). Snyder's career at Kansas State can be described best as one of the greatest reclamation projects in the history of college football.
 
#89
#89
Vol8188 said:
You don't believe part of Richts and Sabans success are related to their universities?
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No not as much a you think it does. You still have I recruit and coach the games. Did being at Tennessee help Dooley look good?
Your believe that Richt wins 10 per year in the SEC but because it's at Georgia that makes him a terrible coach?
Richt is an underachiever. Given all that he has he achieved, that is amazing.
 
#90
#90
Volosaurus rex said:
This will add a little context to your argument. Looking at all-time records up to 1988, the year before Bill Snyder took over at Kansas State, that program was DEAD LAST in winning percentage (I-A Winning Percentage 1869-1988). Snyder's career at Kansas State can be described best as one of the greatest reclamation projects in the history of college football.
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All that does is side track is more. I have not heard why Richt is terrible. We have danced around Bill Snyder and that's been the conversation.
 
#91
#91
fossilfiction said:
All that does is side track is more. I have not heard why Richt is terrible. We have danced around Bill Snyder and that's been the conversation.
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He's terrible because he has the best recruiting grounds in America. No one else has so much talent with so little in state completion.

He should be winning a lot more than he does.
 
#92
#92
Vol8188 said:
He's terrible because he has the best recruiting grounds in America. No one else has so much talent with so little in state completion.

He should be winning a lot more than he does.
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Guy has two SEC Championships. Usually posts double digit wins. There's not much more he can do. Since you're dead set that Georgia is some powerhouse that just wins SEC Championships in spite of a "terrible" head coach like Richt, tell me what did the guy before him do there? And the guy before that?
 
#93
#93
oregonvol said:
Guy has two SEC Championships. Usually posts double digit wins. There's not much more he can do. Since you're dead set that Georgia is some powerhouse that just wins SEC Championships in spite of a "terrible" head coach like Richt, tell me what did the guy before him do there? And the guy before that?
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You do realize it's been nearly a decade since his last SEC title, right?

Donnon-40-19 with 1 SEC title
And before that they had there Dooley, Ray Goff: 46-34-1.

It's still impossible to deny the major advantages Richt has over the rest of the SEC. Georgia is a sleeping giant.
 
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#94
#94
BeattieFeathers said:
You are wrong. It happened to Bear,joepa,and bobby Bowden. You are unrealistic and scary as a fan.
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For every one you named I can name a Phil Jackson, Vince Lombardi, John Wooden, Scotty Bowman. I think I am quite realistic when analyzing Saban. He may retire, but will not be mediocre.
 
#95
#95
Remy said:
Hey man chill, Beattie is your basic troll, just check out every thread he starts, same bovine scatology ... lets be satisfied with 8 wins, we should a kept Phil ...on and on the trolling goes ...
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Is he the guy that had his son beaten up by Jacques Smith?
 
#96
#96
i agree that the level of play and decision making would be better and make games harder to win if all the coaches were sabans but me personally I still think there would be lopsided victories and lopsided season records. I believe some people are overrating the job of the head coach, it is crucial to the team just as the QB is to them team, but there is still alot that goes into each individual program that gives it an identity that involves more than just the headcoach. Such as players, staff, school, academics, so on, so on.
 
#97
#97
BigTCountry said:
i agree that the level of play and decision making would be better and make games harder to win if all the coaches were sabans but me personally I still think there would be lopsided victories and lopsided season records. I believe some people are overrating the job of the head coach, it is crucial to the team just as the QB is to them team, but there is still alot that goes into each individual program that gives it an identity that involves more than just the headcoach. Such as players, staff, school, academics, so on, so on.
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He is a relentless recruiter and hires relentless recruiters. That and great scheme makes the head coach the most important thing a football program has. All of the things you listed stem from a great CEO running things.
 
#99
#99
Vol8188 said:
He's terrible because he has the best recruiting grounds in America. No one else has so much talent with so little in state completion.
He should be winning a lot more than he does.
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What is his out of state completion %? CMR averages over 10 wins a season for 13 years and somehow he is a big underachieving bum.
 
#100
#100
Vol8188 said:
You do realize it's been nearly a decade since his last SEC title, right?

Donnon-40-19 with 1 SEC title
And before that they had there Dooley, Ray Goff: 46-34-1.

It's still impossible to deny the major advantages Richt has over the rest of the SEC. Georgia is a sleeping giant.
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When did Donnan win an SEC title? It certainly wasn't at Georgia.
 
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