If we could just find a Lofton or even a JaJuan

#51
#51
bleedingTNorange said:
And I am in no way bashing lofton I loved the guy he is my favorite player to wear orange I'm just rational. Anyone that thinks at any point of loftons career he was a first round draft pick is delusional at best.
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who cares about first round draft picks? 9 outta 10 leave after their first year anyways. look at calipari's lack of rings...

i would rather have a lofton for 4 years than any of the one and dones for one.
 
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#52
#52
BasketVoller said:
DraftExpressProfile: Chris Lofton, Stats, Comparisons, and Outlook

DraftExpress: NCAA Tournament: Stock Watch (Sweet 16, Thursday games)--Stock Up

Pretty much 100% positive that the mock draft you link doesn't include anyone that didn't go out for the draft that year as some other big name EEs that opted to stay in college are not on that list. So that draft means nothing.

My first link shows that pretty much all year draftexpress.com thought Lofton was a late first round/early second round selection, just as I said. The second article talks about his performance in the last tourney game of his junior season against OSU and then states that he is seen as a likely late first round/early second round.

I don't know if i needed to clarify it any further but when someone says late first round/early second round, they typically mean something along the 27-35ish or so pick I would say. It isn't like I said he was going to go in the top 10.

It is weird to me that Lofton is your favorite player yet you clearly have no memory regarding his draft projections his junior year. Lofton is my favorite player as well and pretty much everyone had the same thoughts on him. Also you aren't rational. You are opinionated and often misguided and then call someone delusional who is clearly right. Calm down, girl.
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Here is a link of lofton saying why he came back...Vols' Lofton to stick around for senior season - USATODAY.com

the mock draft that you have a link for is from during his junior season. he went and worked out for teams in the nba and did the workouts and when he got the feedback his draft status dropped significantly. the mock draft you show is from during the year when nba teams have not brought him in.

here is another link to 2007 mock draft one in which he is projected late 2nd or undrafted...NBA Mock Draft - InsideHoops.com

we can agree to disagree about lofton if you would like. one thing is clear though, he has yet to receive a chance to play in the nba so that says something. the site you linked draftexpress has a recent article on him talking about him being in the best shape of his life right now, and that they could see him as a call up but not a long term nba player.

lofton is my favorite player but i dont let that get in the way of me being rational. i didnt recall him being projected as a first round pick ever, you showed me ONE site that had him there, yet that site since is now saying he is at best a call up player. if you could show me another site that has him projected then i may change my stance but i have provided more sites than you that say he is late 2nd round/undrafted. lofton was a great player for us here and brought tennessee to new heights, he remains my favorite player along side bradshaw, but i dont pretend to think bradshaw should have played in the league either.
 
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#53
#53
bleedingTNorange said:
Here is a link of lofton saying why he came back...Vols' Lofton to stick around for senior season - USATODAY.com

the mock draft that you have a link for is from during his junior season. he went and worked out for teams in the nba and did the workouts and when he got the feedback his draft status dropped significantly. the mock draft you show is from during the year when nba teams have not brought him in.
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This doesn't make sense to me, not trying to be confrontational, a dick, or saying you are wrong. But when did he go to workout with the NBA teams? During his junior season? I don't think he worked out with teams in the middle of the season. This leads me to believe you are saying he worked out with the teams during the summer. I don't think he did, and even if he did, it would have been meaningless because he had gone through the long recovery from cancer. Tumor removed in March and he was on bed rest for 10 days. Then radiation treatments for nearly an entire month: April 25 through May 21. He lost 15 pounds of muscle, conditioning, and a month of gym time.

The only thing I can find that he did that summer was try out for the Pan Am team. He said he knew he shouldn't have and he didn't do well.

As for your article stating why Lofton came back, I didn't read it. I thought everyone had come to the conclusion that he probably came back because he had cancer. He even heavily considered a red shirt. Look at the date your article came out, he was in radiation treatments. Besides, you have to pass a full physical and he was going to have to disclose to NBA teams that he had cancer.

Also, you say show me a single draft that had him projected, and I did and then you whine at me for not showing you enough.

here is another link to 2007 mock draft one in which he is projected late 2nd or undrafted...NBA Mock Draft - InsideHoops.com
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That's great. I didn't ask for it nor do I care. You asked me to show you one site and I did. I don't want to get into a giant mock draft linking fest. I'll also say that final mock draft looks like **** since it sill has EEs that withdrew their names from consideration.

we can agree to disagree about lofton if you would like. one thing is clear though, he has yet to receive a chance to play in the nba so that says something. the site you linked draftexpress has a recent article on him talking about him being in the best shape of his life right now, and that they could see him as a call up but not a long term nba player.


lofton is my favorite player but i dont let that get in the way of me being rational. i didnt recall him being projected as a first round pick ever, you showed me ONE site that had him there, yet that site since is now saying he is at best a call up player. if you could show me another site that has him projected then i may change my stance but i have provided more sites than you that say he is late 2nd round/undrafted. lofton was a great player for us here and brought tennessee to new heights, he remains my favorite player along side bradshaw, but i dont pretend to think bradshaw should have played in the league either.
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Lofton performed great in Turkey and as a result bounced around on some Spanish teams and put up good numbers until he got hurt (broke/injured his hand I believe; the information can be difficult to find). Since playing with the Iowa Energy and doing well he got an offer from a Spanish team (I think it was his biggest contract so far). Once he arrived, however, he failed his physical because of some back problem, and he came back to the States to deal with it. I haven't heard anything since regarding his career.

I'm not delusional. I don't think Lofton would have been all-star or anything. I do think that, if not for the cancer, he would have gotten a chance to be on a roster after his junior year though.
 
#54
#54
BasketVoller said:
This doesn't make sense to me, not trying to be confrontational, a dick, or saying you are wrong. But when did he go to workout with the NBA teams? During his junior season? I don't think he worked out with teams in the middle of the season. This leads me to believe you are saying he worked out with the teams during the summer. I don't think he did, and even if he did, it would have been meaningless because he had gone through the long recovery from cancer. Tumor removed in March and he was on bed rest for 10 days. Then radiation treatments for nearly an entire month: April 25 through May 21. He lost 15 pounds of muscle, conditioning, and a month of gym time.

The only thing I can find that he did that summer was try out for the Pan Am team. He said he knew he shouldn't have and he didn't do well.

As for your article stating why Lofton came back, I didn't read it. I thought everyone had come to the conclusion that he probably came back because he had cancer. He even heavily considered a red shirt. Look at the date your article came out, he was in radiation treatments. Besides, you have to pass a full physical and he was going to have to disclose to NBA teams that he had cancer.

Also, you say show me a single draft that had him projected, and I did and then you whine at me for not showing you enough.



That's great. I didn't ask for it nor do I care. You asked me to show you one site and I did. I don't want to get into a giant mock draft linking fest. I'll also say that final mock draft looks like **** since it sill has EEs that withdrew their names from consideration.



Lofton performed great in Turkey and as a result bounced around on some Spanish teams and put up good numbers until he got hurt (broke/injured his hand I believe; the information can be difficult to find). Since playing with the Iowa Energy and doing well he got an offer from a Spanish team (I think it was his biggest contract so far). Once he arrived, however, he failed his physical because of some back problem, and he came back to the States to deal with it. I haven't heard anything since regarding his career.

I'm not delusional. I don't think Lofton would have been all-star or anything. I do think that, if not for the cancer, he would have gotten a chance to be on a roster after his junior year though.
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maybe you are right maybe not unfortunately there is no proving this as sadly he did have the cancer and it killed his senior season. what i am mainly going by is this, he now has a better shot than he did when here, he is more athletic now than he was here, he is the same height as he was here and yet he still has not been given a chance to play in the league. i feel like if he would have been drafted in 2007 then he would get a chance now, especially since from everything i have read he is now a better player than he was at tennessee. i love lofton i really do, i have so much signed items and pictures on my wall in my den with him, it will be hard for anybody to surpass him as my favorite. i just never did and still dont see a place for him in the nba, maybe someone brings him as a 3 point shooter in situations off the bench who knows.
 
#56
#56
I think to get significant minutes at the upper level he would have needed to get better PG abilities to become a combo guard and then he could be compared to someone like Stephen Curry or David Wesley.

I say we conclude by agreeing that we love C. Lo and hope he stays healthy, improves, and gets the chance he always wanted.
 
#57
#57
BasketVoller said:
I think to get significant minutes at the upper level he would have needed to get better PG abilities to become a combo guard and then he could be compared to someone like Stephen Curry or David Wesley.

I say we conclude by agreeing that we love C. Lo and hope he stays healthy, improves, and gets the chance he always wanted.
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absolutely i agree 100%. i think everyone knew his only shot would be if he could play point which is why bruce tried to play him there. unfortunately, the cancer really did set back that development and he just now is probably getting back to where he was. with all things said there is nothing wrong with making 6 figures a year playing a game, i am very happy for the guy and look forward to the day his banner is hanging from the rafters.
 
#58
#58
I couldn't care less whether he was drafted, was considered draftable, or ever played a second in the NBA. He was one of the best college basketball players I ever saw and, if I were starting a college team, I'd take him over Derrick Rose (just to name one who is successful in the NBA) every time.
 
#59
#59
papatomany said:
I couldn't care less whether he was drafted, was considered draftable, or ever played a second in the NBA. He was one of the best college basketball players I ever saw and, if I were starting a college team, I'd take him over Derrick Rose (just to name one who is successful in the NBA) every time.
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Love the enthusiasm, but I'd hate to have you as a coach.
 
#60
#60
papatomany said:
I couldn't care less whether he was drafted, was considered draftable, or ever played a second in the NBA. He was one of the best college basketball players I ever saw and, if I were starting a college team, I'd take him over Derrick Rose (just to name one who is successful in the NBA) every time.
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And this is why you should be a motivator and not anyone that has a decision what so bet in personnel decisions made.
 
#64
#64
BigPapaCat said:
I hate JJ, but he deserves it.
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I don't think he does. In fact i'd vote others over him as well as Lofton.

42.2% to 40.6% from 3. Not to mention Lofton dealing with the effects from Cancer hurt his senior year where he only shot 38%.

Redick meanwhile was talked about 24/7 on TV.
 
#65
#65
BigPapaCat said:
I hate JJ, but he deserves it.
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i honestly think that lofton is more deserving of it. as another poster said the cancer really hurt loftons offense his senior year, and his 3 point %. also, jj benefited from being on amazing duke teams, he found himself wide open quite often, chris was THE guy on our teams those years. JMO
 
#66
#66
man i miss lofton.best shooter ive ever seen imo.duke ran alot plays for jj comming of double screens and most of lofton shots were in someones grill.
 
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#70
#70
bleedingTNorange said:
And this is why you should be a motivator and not anyone that has a decision what so bet in personnel decisions made.
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Here's Lofton's three non-cancer years:
13.2 pts/ 51.6% 2pt shots/ 46.5% 3pt shots / 63.9% effective fg/ 85.4% ft/ 1.5 asts/ 1.4 to (1.4 ast/to) / 1.3 st

17.2 pts/ 53.5% 2pt shots/ 43.7% 3pt shots/ 61.9% effective fg/ 91.7% ft/ 1.8 asts/ 1.2 to (1.6 ast/to) / 2 st

20.8 pts/ 56.6% 2pt shots/ 41.9% 3pt shots/ 60.9% effective fg/ 81.1% ft/ 1.7 asts/ 1.6 to (1.1 ast/to)/ 1.5 st

Here's Rose's lone year:
14.9 pts/ 52.1% 2 pt shots/ 33.7% 3pt shots/ 51.7% effective fg/ 71.2% ft/ 4.7 asts/ 2.7 to (1.8 ast/to)/ 1.2 st

Here's a point guard whose numbers compare favorably to Rose's (and are actually better):
14.3 pts / 52.8% 2pt shots/ 37.3% 3pt shots/ 54.1% effective fg/ 82.8% ft/ 5.1 asts/ 3.0 to (1.7 ast/to)/ .8 st
...this is Golden this year, (you know, the guy everybody keeps complaining about because he's not a "true point guard").

Then add Lofton's ability to hit clutch shots and I believe Lofton to be the clear winner. (And no, you can go back through the play-by-play and see that Rose, despite his ability to get off a good shot in the clutch and look good doing it, rarely hit one.)

Rose wasn't drafted first because he was the best college player; it was because he was considered the best pro PROSPECT.
 
#71
#71
papatomany said:
Here's Lofton's three non-cancer years:
13.2 pts/ 51.6% 2pt shots/ 46.5% 3pt shots / 63.9% effective fg/ 85.4% ft/ 1.5 asts/ 1.4 to (1.4 ast/to) / 1.3 st

17.2 pts/ 53.5% 2pt shots/ 43.7% 3pt shots/ 61.9% effective fg/ 91.7% ft/ 1.8 asts/ 1.2 to (1.6 ast/to) / 2 st

20.8 pts/ 56.6% 2pt shots/ 41.9% 3pt shots/ 60.9% effective fg/ 81.1% ft/ 1.7 asts/ 1.6 to (1.1 ast/to)/ 1.5 st

Here's Rose's lone year:
14.9 pts/ 52.1% 2 pt shots/ 33.7% 3pt shots/ 51.7% effective fg/ 71.2% ft/ 4.7 asts/ 2.7 to (1.8 ast/to)/ 1.2 st

Here's a point guard whose numbers compare favorably to Rose's (and are actually better):
14.3 pts / 52.8% 2pt shots/ 37.3% 3pt shots/ 54.1% effective fg/ 82.8% ft/ 5.1 asts/ 3.0 to (1.7 ast/to)/ .8 st
...this is Golden this year, (you know, the guy everybody keeps complaining about because he's not a "true point guard").

Then add Lofton's ability to hit clutch shots and I believe Lofton to be the clear winner. (And no, you can go back through the play-by-play and see that Rose, despite his ability to get off a good shot in the clutch and look good doing it, rarely hit one.)

Rose wasn't drafted first because he was the best college player; it was because he was considered the best pro PROSPECT.
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I seem to remember him hitting clutch shot after clutch shot against us that year. Your comparing a freshman to lofton as a seasoned junior or senior. Lofton wasn't clutch the second he walked on campus he developed that. So by your theory you would also take the kid from creighton(?) this year because he has the best numbers this year over a guy like say anthony Davis, seriously? The fact your telling me you would take lofton, a guy who hasn't played one nba game, over rose who is a nba all star and top 3 Pg in the league says all I need to know about you. Lofton was great for this program but you are just being completely ridiculous. You know you should definitely take a guy like jajaun smith over lebron James because jajauns numbers were muh better in college, lebron was drafted because of only potential. SERIOUSLY!
 
#72
#72
bleedingTNorange said:
I seem to remember him hitting clutch shot after clutch shot against us that year. Your comparing a freshman to lofton as a seasoned junior or senior. Lofton wasn't clutch the second he walked on campus he developed that. So by your theory you would also take the kid from creighton(?) this year because he has the best numbers this year over a guy like say anthony Davis, seriously? The fact your telling me you would take lofton, a guy who hasn't played one nba game, over rose who is a nba all star and top 3 Pg in the league says all I need to know about you. Lofton was great for this program but you are just being completely ridiculous. You know you should definitely take a guy like jajaun smith over lebron James because jajauns numbers were muh better in college, lebron was drafted because of only potential. SERIOUSLY!
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Lofton's senior year isn't in there. His freshman year is actually his most proficient in Effective FG%, which is WAY beyond Rose's. Rose is/was a point guard, so I give you a sophomore point guard (Golden) with nearly the same numbers, who is thought by most as not worthy to carry Rose's jockstrap, even in college. (Lebron didn't play college and would have dominated if he had, so it's silly to bring him in.) The point is that college ball and pro ball aren't the same. Different skill sets can make you a GREAT college player who just can't compete in the pros. (Christian Laetner, anyone?) There's a huge list of guys who had fantastic college careers, but would be a poor way to start a pro team. I'd take Lofton if I were starting a college team, not a pro team; which is the point I started with. You keep coming back to how good a pro Rose is, but this is completely irrelevant to how effective he was on the college court.

Incidentally, wasn't that Butler in the finals the last two years? With NBA All-Star...who?

As a parallel, how about the NFL vs college. Tebow has two NCAA titles and a Heisman. One season, he accounted for 50+ TDs playing in the best conference in the country. He's a lousy pro.

[And I've now said all I care to say on the subject. Feel free to ignore my points, keep telling me about Rose in the pros, and get in the last word. Bye.]
 
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#74
#74
papatomany said:
Lofton's senior year isn't in there. His freshman year is actually his most proficient in Effective FG%, which is WAY beyond Rose's. Rose is/was a point guard, so I give you a sophomore point guard (Golden) with nearly the same numbers, who is thought by most as not worthy to carry Rose's jockstrap, even in college. (Lebron didn't play college and would have dominated if he had, so it's silly to bring him in.) The point is that college ball and pro ball aren't the same. Different skill sets can make you a GREAT college player who just can't compete in the pros. (Christian Laetner, anyone?) There's a huge list of guys who had fantastic college careers, but would be a poor way to start a pro team. I'd take Lofton if I were starting a college team, not a pro team; which is the point I started with. You keep coming back to how good a pro Rose is, but this is completely irrelevant to how effective he was on the college court.

Incidentally, wasn't that Butler in the finals the last two years? With NBA All-Star...who?

As a parallel, how about the NFL vs college. Tebow has two NCAA titles and a Heisman. One season, he accounted for 50+ TDs playing in the best conference in the country. He's a lousy pro.
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ok lets play 5 on 5

your team
pg: lofton
sg: jimmer
sf: mcdermott
pf: morrison
c: hansborough

my team
pg: derek rose
sg: carmelo anthony
sf: kevin durant
pf: blake griffin
c: demarcus cousins

sorry but id take these guys if i was starting a college team over any of yours.
 
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