If we could just find a Lofton or even a JaJuan

#101
#101
for a guy who cant create his own shot idk how he scored 61 points in a pro game in turkey a couple years ago and scored a nba d league season high 44 last year.
 
#103
#103
bleedingTNorange said:
Originally Posted by bleedingTNorange:
Your right the Three over a 6' 9" durant wasn't lofton creating his own shot. The spin move and up and under moves against Memphis when he dropped 35 wasn't creating his own shot. He patented the step back drive an pull up, guess that's not creating you shot either. Did he get a lot of his 3's off of passes, yes. Was he capable of creating shot like lebron or Kobe, no. Could he go off the dribble and create a shot on a occasion, absolutely. I'll help you out go to YouTube type in Chris lofton watch his highlights because clearly you've never seen him before. Saying he can't create his shot anybody than mcbee could is asinine. There is a reason lofton averaged 20+ and mcbee averages about 6.


Better?
Click to expand...

A little bit. But this isn't English class, so as long as I can understand it, we're good.

Let the record reflect that I never compared or contrasted Lofton to McBee. Lofton is obviously a vastly superior player.
 
#104
#104
rush1228 said:
for a guy who cant create his own shot idk how he scored 61 points in a pro game in turkey a couple years ago and scored a nba d league season high 44 last year.
Click to expand...


If he could create his own shot, he'd be in the NBA and you wouldn't be talking about how well he did in Turkey.

I'm not even sure what you all are talking about. I like Lofton as much as the next guy. He was a great college player and one of the best shooters ever. I loved watching him. But how in the world can you all not acknowledge that he can't create his own shot? That he doesn't have the athletic ability to create a shot for himself when he's closely guarded by a defender. Why are y'all continuing to toss out these ridiculously tortured definitions for what it means to create your own shot? Or, even worse, pointing to a single play or two he made in college as showing that he can create his own shot? It isn't that nebulous a concept. It's rather concrete. It even happens at the University of Tennessee: Scotty Hopson, for example, was excellent at creating his own shot. Unlike Lofton, that isn't the aspect of his game that prevented him from being in the league.

And do you all not readily acknowledge that the lack of ability to create his own shot is the very thing that has kept Lofton from the NBA (and yes I just did mention the NBA ::gasp::). And if it isn't the very thing that has kept him from the NBA, then what in the world has kept him from the NBA?
 
#105
#105
kidbourbon said:
If he could create his own shot, he'd be in the NBA and you wouldn't be talking about how well he did in Turkey.

I'm not even sure what you all are talking about. I like Lofton as much as the next guy. He was a great college player and one of the best shooters ever. I loved watching him. But how in the world can you all not acknowledge that he can't create his own shot? That he doesn't have the athletic ability to create a shot for himself when he's closely guarded by a defender. Why are y'all continuing to toss out these ridiculously tortured definitions for what it means to create your own shot? Or, even worse, pointing to a single play or two he made in college as showing that he can create his own shot? It isn't that nebulous a concept. It's rather concrete. It even happens at the University of Tennessee: Scotty Hopson, for example, was excellent at creating his own shot. Unlike Lofton, that isn't the aspect of his game that prevented him from being in the league.

And do you all not readily acknowledge that the lack of ability to create his own shot is the very thing that has kept Lofton from the NBA (and yes I just did mention the NBA ::gasp::). And if it isn't the very thing that has kept him from the NBA, then what in the world has kept him from the NBA?
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First off, some of the words you're using are too big for me to understand (no sarcasm), so if I fail to address every point in your argument, you'll know why.

I'm not defending Lofton because I like him. I honestly think he could create his own shot at the college level. That's all. If that means I don't understand basketball terms, definitions, or the game itself, then maybe I don't.

And as for the reason he's not in the NBA, I don't think you can say the predominant reason is that he couldn't create his own shot. He's an undersized shooting guard. There's a direct correlation between his lack of size and the likely-hood that he wouldn't be able to create his shot in the NBA. But that's because of his size and not ability.
 
#106
#106
kidbourbon said:
But how in the world can you all not acknowledge that he can't create his own shot?

That he doesn't have the athletic ability to create a shot for himself when he's closely guarded by a defender.
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Lofton could create his own shot in the NCAA. If you don't think so, you obviously didn't watch many of his games his sophomore and, particularly, junior year. Lofton didn't run of screens all day and get great open looks. Normally the flex offense did nothing for a long time and then Lofton got the ball and did a step back, fade-away 3 point attempt or drove the ball (admittedly driving the ball happened way more his junior than any other year).

Or, even worse, pointing to a single play or two he made in college as showing that he can create his own shot?
Click to expand...
Chris Lofton vs. Memphis - YouTube

I heard you like anecdotal evidence so I'll give you some more. Creates his own shot over and over again.

It even happens at the University of Tennessee: Scotty Hopson, for example, was excellent at creating his own shot. Unlike Lofton, that isn't the aspect of his game that prevented him from being in the league.
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I really feel this depends on what year you are talking about. If you take Lofton's game his junior year when he really started driving the ball, it is laughable to say, at least in the NCAA, that Hopson was better at creating his own shot. Lofton didn't average more points per game because of the flex offense getting him spot up looks.


And do you all not readily acknowledge that the lack of ability to create his own shot is the very thing that has kept Lofton from the NBA (and yes I just did mention the NBA ::gasp::). And if it isn't the very thing that has kept him from the NBA, then what in the world has kept him from the NBA?
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The NBA and NCAA are almost completely different games, but I still disagree. His size for the position he plays is abysmal in the NBA. You can link his size to hurting his ability to create his own shot against the monster defenders he would go against every night. I would still say size for his position. If he had learned to be a combo guard and really develop his PG skills, he would have been fine as a Stephen Curry type player, but he didn't so whatever.

It is still ridiculous to think Lofton didn't create his own shots while he was at Tennessee.
 
#107
#107
kidbourbon said:
If he could create his own shot, he'd be in the NBA and you wouldn't be talking about how well he did in Turkey.

I'm not even sure what you all are talking about. I like Lofton as much as the next guy. He was a great college player and one of the best shooters ever. I loved watching him. But how in the world can you all not acknowledge that he can't create his own shot? That he doesn't have the athletic ability to create a shot for himself when he's closely guarded by a defender. Why are y'all continuing to toss out these ridiculously tortured definitions for what it means to create your own shot? Or, even worse, pointing to a single play or two he made in college as showing that he can create his own shot? It isn't that nebulous a concept. It's rather concrete. It even happens at the University of Tennessee: Scotty Hopson, for example, was excellent at creating his own shot. Unlike Lofton, that isn't the aspect of his game that prevented him from being in the league.

And do you all not readily acknowledge that the lack of ability to create his own shot is the very thing that has kept Lofton from the NBA (and yes I just did mention the NBA ::gasp::). And if it isn't the very thing that has kept him from the NBA, then what in the world has kept him from the NBA?
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PLEASE READ SLOWLY AND THOROUGHLY...

Why do you continue to reference the NBA to prove your point? In case you didn't know there is a HUGE difference between the college game and the NBA game. There are thousands of guys who were superior college players and could create their own shot but never made it in the NBA. Nobody in here has said he could create his own shot in the NBA, we are talking about COLLEGE! To say that a college player can't create his own shot because he's not capable of doing it in the NBA is asinine. Your logic makes no sense this discussion was about lofton at the college level, why your bringing up the NBA I'll never understand. It simply proves to me that you know very little if anything about basketball.
 
#108
#108
BasketVoller said:
Lofton could create his own shot in the NCAA. If you don't think so, you obviously didn't watch many of his games his sophomore and, particularly, junior year. Lofton didn't run of screens all day and get great open looks. Normally the flex offense did nothing for a long time and then Lofton got the ball and did a step back, fade-away 3 point attempt or drove the ball (admittedly driving the ball happened way more his junior than any other year).


Chris Lofton vs. Memphis - YouTube

I heard you like anecdotal evidence so I'll give you some more. Creates his own shot over and over again.



I really feel this depends on what year you are talking about. If you take Lofton's game his junior year when he really started driving the ball, it is laughable to say, at least in the NCAA, that Hopson was better at creating his own shot. Lofton didn't average more points per game because of the flex offense getting him spot up looks.




The NBA and NCAA are almost completely different games, but I still disagree. His size for the position he plays is abysmal in the NBA. You can link his size to hurting his ability to create his own shot against the monster defenders he would go against every night. I would still say size for his position. If he had learned to be a combo guard and really develop his PG skills, he would have been fine as a Stephen Curry type player, but he didn't so whatever.

It is still ridiculous to think Lofton didn't create his own shots while he was at Tennessee.
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+1,000

I'm completely convinced this person knows absolutely nothing about basketball hat do ever.
 
#109
#109
anyone who says lofton isnt good enough for the nba needs to go talk to all the scouts and everyone else who had him projected a 1st round pick after his jr season.the fact is cancer cost him from being in the nba.
 
#111
#111
rush1228 said:
anyone who says lofton isnt good enough for the nba needs to go talk to all the scouts and everyone else who had him projected a 1st round pick after his jr season.the fact is cancer cost him from being in the nba.
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First off you stating anyone saying lofton ISN'T good enough for the NBA is false your implying present time, if he was good enough he'd be in the league.


This isn't true. Let me say I love lofton(read above posts) so this isn't a bash bit with that said. After his junior year he worked out for teams and put in the paperwork for the draft as most juniors do, because you get one time to do it and withdraw. It provides you a chance to perform in front of NBA scouts and see what you need to work on. When Chris cane back he said if I was told I was a first round pick I'd have gone pro, this article is online google it. Did the cancer cause him from getting an invite or a 2nd round pick, we will never know. He was not going first round though after his junior year. The other thing here is there was an article recently that Chris is in the best shape he's ever been in and playing his best ball of his career. He still fails to get a shot from the NBA. The fact is he's a 6'2" SG, those don't exist in the NBA, unless they are just athletic freaks.
 
#112
#112
bleedingTNorange said:
First off you stating anyone saying lofton ISN'T good enough for the NBA is false your implying present time, if he was good enough he'd be in the league.


This isn't true. Let me say I love lofton(read above posts) so this isn't a bash bit with that said. After his junior year he worked out for teams and put in the paperwork for the draft as most juniors do, because you get one time to do it and withdraw. It provides you a chance to perform in front of NBA scouts and see what you need to work on. When Chris cane back he said if I was told I was a first round pick I'd have gone pro, this article is online google it. Did the cancer cause him from getting an invite or a 2nd round pick, we will never know. He was not going first round though after his junior year. The other thing here is there was an article recently that Chris is in the best shape he's ever been in and playing his best ball of his career. He still fails to get a shot from the NBA. The fact is he's a 6'2" SG, those don't exist in the NBA, unless they are just athletic freaks.
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I agree with the general premise of your argument, but I gotta say one thing - Lofton could play in the NBA. There's a ton of bad basketball being played in the NBA right now. He could make a roster as a bench player somewhere like Golden State or Indiana. Doesn't mean he'd be any good or even necessarily get a chance to try out at this point in his career, but there was a time that he was attending summer camps and getting courted by NBA teams. If a team had a need for a role playing three point specialist that would see limited minutes, Lofton is your guy. Now, with that being said, I don't know that a good team would pick him up. Seems like a well run organization would want a guy that brings more to the table.
 
#113
#113
MannyD said:
I agree with the general premise of your argument, but I gotta say one thing - Lofton could play in the NBA. There's a ton of bad basketball being played in the NBA right now. He could make a roster as a bench player somewhere like Golden State or Indiana. Doesn't mean he'd be any good or even necessarily get a chance to try out at this point in his career, but there was a time that he was attending summer camps and getting courted by NBA teams. If a team had a need for a role playing three point specialist that would see limited minutes, Lofton is your guy. Now, with that being said, I don't know that a good team would pick him up. Seems like a well run organization would want a guy that brings more to the table.
Click to expand...

If lofton COULD play in the NBA he would be playing, they aren't performing some petition against him. As I states earlier in a post lofton went after his junior year to attend camps for the draft, he was flat out told your not a first round player. There are guys that are 3 point specialists like you speak of but they are either taller or more athletic. Look at redick, kapono, and Korver to name a few. They are essentially the position you speak of that lofton could play but they are in the NBA and he isn't because of height, that's it. I hate it for lofton i do but he just isn't an NBA guy, his only shot would be playing d league an injury to his parent tean to their 3 point guy and lofton being called up for 10 days. Seeing as how lofton went back to Spain to play this isn't a likely scenario.
 
#114
#114
bleedingTNorange said:
First off you stating anyone saying lofton ISN'T good enough for the NBA is false your implying present time, if he was good enough he'd be in the league.


This isn't true. Let me say I love lofton(read above posts) so this isn't a bash bit with that said. After his junior year he worked out for teams and put in the paperwork for the draft as most juniors do, because you get one time to do it and withdraw. It provides you a chance to perform in front of NBA scouts and see what you need to work on. When Chris cane back he said if I was told I was a first round pick I'd have gone pro, this article is online google it. Did the cancer cause him from getting an invite or a 2nd round pick, we will never know. He was not going first round though after his junior year. The other thing here is there was an article recently that Chris is in the best shape he's ever been in and playing his best ball of his career. He still fails to get a shot from the NBA. The fact is he's a 6'2" SG, those don't exist in the NBA, unless they are just athletic freaks.
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lofton came out and said he would have went pro after his jr but his ankle kept him from working out for teams.chris is pretty smart so i dont think he would have came out if he knew he wasnt going to get drafted.he was already on the map after his jr year and if he hadnt have gotten cancer he would more than likely put up even bigger numbers his sr year and def been drafted and made a roster.now im not saying he would been a star in the nba he might have been a bust but him getting cancer and his numbers going down his sr year cost him his chance imo.
 
#115
#115
bleedingTNorange said:
If lofton COULD play in the NBA he would be playing, they aren't performing some petition against him. As I states earlier in a post lofton went after his junior year to attend camps for the draft, he was flat out told your not a first round player. There are guys that are 3 point specialists like you speak of but they are either taller or more athletic. Look at redick, kapono, and Korver to name a few. They are essentially the position you speak of that lofton could play but they are in the NBA and he isn't because of height, that's it. I hate it for lofton i do but he just isn't an NBA guy, his only shot would be playing d league an injury to his parent tean to their 3 point guy and lofton being called up for 10 days. Seeing as how lofton went back to Spain to play this isn't a likely scenario.
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I thought the league owners lobbied for a stipulation in the new CBA that prohibited Lofton from playing in the NBA...you're saying this isn't the case?

All I'm saying is that Lofton would be just fine in a limited role on the roster of a bad team. He couldn't make the Wizards any worse. His shot is NBA level. That's all. Don't confuse that as me saying anything other than this. I'm not a Lofton apologist. I honestly couldn't care less. He's better off playing overseas for a bigger contract with more PT.
 
#116
#116
rush1228 said:
lofton came out and said he would have went pro after his jr but his ankle kept him from working out for teams.chris is pretty smart so i dont think he would have came out if he knew he wasnt going to get drafted.he was already on the map after his jr year and if he hadnt have gotten cancer he would more than likely put up even bigger numbers his sr year and def been drafted and made a roster.now im not saying he would been a star in the nba he might have been a bust but him getting cancer and his numbers going down his sr year cost him his chance imo.
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Vols' Lofton to stick around for senior season - USATODAY.com

this article quotes lofton as to why he came back, because at best he was a mid-late 2nd round pick is what he was told. the problem with lofton is his height and lack of being a superior athlete i dont know how many times i can say this. i dont think if he put up 22ppg his senior year that he would have been on an NBA team, he just doesnt fit the mold that they want. maybe he would have got an invite to a camp, but as i said what he does is shoot 3's, the guys like that in the NBA are taller, name me someone similar to chris lofton? just because you score in college doesnt mean that you are going to be in the nba, most of the guys who are in the top 10 scoring in college dont end up in the nba. just because you can average 25 ppg in college doesnt make you an automatic draft pick.
 
#117
#117
MannyD said:
I thought the league owners lobbied for a stipulation in the new CBA that prohibited Lofton from playing in the NBA...you're saying this isn't the case?

All I'm saying is that Lofton would be just fine in a limited role on the roster of a bad team. He couldn't make the Wizards any worse. His shot is NBA level. That's all. Don't confuse that as me saying anything other than this. I'm not a Lofton apologist. I honestly couldn't care less. He's better off playing overseas for a bigger contract with more PT.
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so if lofton is better than everyone on the wizards roster why isnt he on their roster? what is your reasoning? the other facet a lot of people are failing to realize is not the offense, but the defense. as soon as you bring lofton out on the floor the opposing 2 guard is going to post him up and abuse him. he just doesnt have the body to play 2 guard in the nba, his ONLY shot was at PG. this is why pearl and lofton both agreed to try and incorporate him at PG his senior season, to improve his chances in the NBA, both of them knew he didnt have a future in the NBA at the 2 guard.
 
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#118
#118
bleedingTNorange said:
so if lofton is better than everyone on the wizards roster why isnt he on their roster? what is your reasoning?
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Yes, that's obviously what I said - Chris Lofton is better than everyone that plays for the Wizards. Reading comprehension would go a long way for you.

You've made your point, I've made mine. We disagree. That's cool. I'm moving on.
 
#120
#120
MannyD said:
Yes, that's obviously what I said - Chris Lofton is better than everyone that plays for the Wizards. Reading comprehension would go a long way for you.

You've made your point, I've made mine. We disagree. That's cool. I'm moving on.
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meant to say anyone auto correct on the phone so sorry. so name someone he is better than on their team, you cant! thats fine if you want to think in your little story land that secretly chris lofton is being held out of the NBA, your reasoning is what ESPN hates UT so they dont want him in the NBA. the NBA isnt discriminating against people, if he was good enough to play in the NBA he would be on a team its as simple as that. i dont understand how you can sit there and say he is better than guys in the NBA, theres a reason that you arent a gm or scout and this is one of them.
 
#121
#121
rush1228 said:
Vols' Chris Lofton Wanted to Go Pro
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what is your point that he wanted to go pro? duh! he had a bum ankle and was unable to work out for some teams, he also DID work out for some so i guess somewhere in between he hurt it. he was told he was going to be a mid-late 2nd round pick after his junior year was over and they got him into camps and measured him and worked him out. you also fail to acknowledge my other point. there is a recent article in which lofton himself states he is in the best shape of his life and playing the best that he has ever played. let me explain what that means for you: he is quicker, stronger and can shoot better and is all around a better player right now than he was at any point in his career at UT. Therefore, if there was ever going to be a time that he would be able to make it onto a NBA team that time would be now, and yet he left the d-league and is back in spain playing ball. Chris Lofton is not tall enough to play SG in the NBA and doesnt have the handles to play PG, if you can show me ANYBODY in the NBA that compares to lofton and is currently on a roster then i will agree with you and say that chris lofton is good enough for the NBA, but secretly the NBA is petitioning against his participation.

I'll wait................:whistling::whistling::whistling:
 
#122
#122
MannyD said:
I thought the league owners lobbied for a stipulation in the new CBA that prohibited Lofton from playing in the NBA...you're saying this isn't the case?

All I'm saying is that Lofton would be just fine in a limited role on the roster of a bad team. He couldn't make the Wizards any worse. His shot is NBA level. That's all. Don't confuse that as me saying anything other than this. I'm not a Lofton apologist. I honestly couldn't care less. He's better off playing overseas for a bigger contract with more PT.
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so because his shot is NBA level means that he should be on a NBA roster? seriously? there is more to the NBA game besides shooting you know right? so by your theory if skylar mcbee continues to shoot 40+% he should also get a shot in the NBA? ridiculous statement.

this is a very simple concept. NBA teams like to have a few guys on their team that can shoot the 3 ball exceptionally well. 3 point shooters are not as rare as you are making him out to be, was he prolific in college absolutely, but you can find a guy who can shoot 40% from 3 any day in the NBA. they also are going to be able to get a guy who can defend his position, and is tall enough to get his shot off. these are 2 things that lofton would not be able to do at the NBA level. so if your a gm would you sign a 40% 3 pt shooter who cant defend and probably cant get off a shot unless hes wide open, or a 40% 3 pt shooter who can defend his position and can get his shot off over a defender???
 
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#123
#123
bleedingTNorange said:
what is your point that he wanted to go pro? duh! he had a bum ankle and was unable to work out for some teams, he also DID work out for some so i guess somewhere in between he hurt it. he was told he was going to be a mid-late 2nd round pick after his junior year was over and they got him into camps and measured him and worked him out. you also fail to acknowledge my other point. there is a recent article in which lofton himself states he is in the best shape of his life and playing the best that he has ever played. let me explain what that means for you: he is quicker, stronger and can shoot better and is all around a better player right now than he was at any point in his career at UT. Therefore, if there was ever going to be a time that he would be able to make it onto a NBA team that time would be now, and yet he left the d-league and is back in spain playing ball. Chris Lofton is not tall enough to play SG in the NBA and doesnt have the handles to play PG, if you can show me ANYBODY in the NBA that compares to lofton and is currently on a roster then i will agree with you and say that chris lofton is good enough for the NBA, but secretly the NBA is petitioning against his participation.

I'll wait................:whistling::whistling::whistling:
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i dont think the ankle was the problem.he was already dignose of cancer it just wasnt released then.lets just leave it as this imo if lofton never would have gotten cancer he would been on a roster and had a chance in nba and i believe most would agree.if you dont thats fine.as far him getting a chance now i doubt it will ever happen i think hes looked as damaged goods now by the nba.
 
#124
#124
rush1228 said:
i dont think the ankle was the problem.he was already dignose of cancer it just wasnt released then.lets just leave it as this imo if lofton never would have gotten cancer he would been on a roster and had a chance in nba and i believe most would agree.if you dont thats fine.as far him getting a chance now i doubt it will ever happen i think hes looked as damaged goods now by the nba.
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thats fine we can agree to disagree but you are wrong in thinking that most would agree with you. most on here realize that lofton unfortunately had his physical limitations and thats not something the cancer caused. most on here would say lofton was not a nba player, he may have received an invite to camp maybe even late 2nd round pick but he would not be on a nba roster still, he'd be overseas like he is now.

damaged goods??? the NBA could care less about your past are you serious. meet chris "birdman" anderson? if you can play ball theyll get you on a team, they dont care if you lost a freaking leg in an accident.
 
#125
#125
bleedingTNorange said:
meant to say anyone auto correct on the phone so sorry. so name someone he is better than on their team, you cant! thats fine if you want to think in your little story land that secretly chris lofton is being held out of the NBA, your reasoning is what ESPN hates UT so they dont want him in the NBA. the NBA isnt discriminating against people, if he was good enough to play in the NBA he would be on a team its as simple as that. i dont understand how you can sit there and say he is better than guys in the NBA, theres a reason that you arent a gm or scout and this is one of them.
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Man, you've convinced me that I'm way off on this one! How could I have ever been such an idiot? I have to hand it to you, your 'insult as response' tactics were really effective in getting me to see the light of your argument. "My little story land" brought me down to size and set the stage for the "there's a reason you're not a GM or scout" jab that was the dagger in my heart. Couple your reply approach with the fact that you already have 1,000+ posts since joining the site earlier this month, and I have no choice but to adopt your opinion. In my world, yelling at people via message boards and doing so often demands nothing other than respect. I think others on this board could learn a thing or two from you.

And just so you know, I think your methods on these boards would translate well in parenting practices. Young children, though sometimes slow to catch on to the content of adult language and conversational practices, respond surprising well to mild verbal abuse. If you don't have kids, you should consider it.

In closing, I'd like to apologize to you. I should've known better than to disagree with someone who's obviously an NBA scouting hobbyist. In hindsight, any attempts at having a big-boy debate with you related to basketball talent should've waited until I'd reached the 1,000+ post milestone.

So, again, Kudos to you! Very nicely done, guy.
 
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