If we could just find a Lofton or even a JaJuan

#76
#76
papatomany said:
Here's Lofton's three non-cancer years:
13.2 pts/ 51.6% 2pt shots/ 46.5% 3pt shots / 63.9% effective fg/ 85.4% ft/ 1.5 asts/ 1.4 to (1.4 ast/to) / 1.3 st

17.2 pts/ 53.5% 2pt shots/ 43.7% 3pt shots/ 61.9% effective fg/ 91.7% ft/ 1.8 asts/ 1.2 to (1.6 ast/to) / 2 st

20.8 pts/ 56.6% 2pt shots/ 41.9% 3pt shots/ 60.9% effective fg/ 81.1% ft/ 1.7 asts/ 1.6 to (1.1 ast/to)/ 1.5 st

Here's Rose's lone year:
14.9 pts/ 52.1% 2 pt shots/ 33.7% 3pt shots/ 51.7% effective fg/ 71.2% ft/ 4.7 asts/ 2.7 to (1.8 ast/to)/ 1.2 st

Here's a point guard whose numbers compare favorably to Rose's (and are actually better):
14.3 pts / 52.8% 2pt shots/ 37.3% 3pt shots/ 54.1% effective fg/ 82.8% ft/ 5.1 asts/ 3.0 to (1.7 ast/to)/ .8 st
...this is Golden this year, (you know, the guy everybody keeps complaining about because he's not a "true point guard").

Then add Lofton's ability to hit clutch shots and I believe Lofton to be the clear winner. (And no, you can go back through the play-by-play and see that Rose, despite his ability to get off a good shot in the clutch and look good doing it, rarely hit one.)

Rose wasn't drafted first because he was the best college player; it was because he was considered the best pro PROSPECT.
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remind me who won player of the year those years? was it lofton?
 
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#78
#78
ok papatomany here is the thing, you are going on about how great a college player lofton was and comparing that to rose. once HUGE difference lofton played 4 years and rose played 1, so if you want to truly compare these players lets look at both there freshman years.

Lofton- 13.2 ppg 3.6rpg 1.5apg 1.5a:to 48% fg 46%3

D. Rose-14.9 ppg 4.5rpg 4.7apg 1.66a:to 48%fg 33%3

the ONLY stat in which lofton was better would be shooting the ball from 3. this is a level playing field they were both freshman so the fact that you are going on and on about how much better lofton was than rose is idiotic. if rose had stayed at memhpis for 4 years im sure he would have imrpoved just as lofton did, but all we can go off of is each of their freshman year's and clearly rose had a better one. one other little tid bit you may wanna think about, how far did each team go with these players those years? ill let you figure that one out.
 
#79
#79
Chris4Vols22 said:
Not to take away from Lofton, but you start D. Rose over Chris 100% of the time at any level.
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It was about who I'd start a team with. I'll take Chris. You take Rose. I'll take Bobby Hurley...

Incidentally, as a freshman Chris was 3rd team NABC all-american and 2nd team Sporting News; as a freshman Rose was 3rd team AP and 3rd team NABC. Seems like the voters didn't see it quite as clear-cut as you do.
 
#82
#82
TooLegit2Quit said:
Why are Derrick Rose and Chris Lofton being compared here? What is this?
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It is nothing. They were arguing over whether Lofton was draftable. I said, who the heck cares; he was one of the best college players I've ever seen and if I were starting a college team I'd take him over many players who are or have been successful pros. I arbitrarily named Rose, primarily because he was the one guy I could think of who was drafted really high (first) while not making any All-American team. Two guys called me a fool for this. I showed them stats to back up my claims, not thinking this would convince anybody, just that I might get an "oh, I see why you think that." Instead, it led one of them into some pretty extravagant feats of logic. The other one didn't take that route, so I showed him All-American listings. All in all, it proves that I am indeed a fool, not because I'd take college Lofton over college Rose, but because I'd waste any amount of time arguing my case on a bulletin board.
(So, "Please disperse...nothing to see here.)
 
#83
#83
papatomany said:
It is nothing. They were arguing over whether Lofton was draftable. I said, who the heck cares; he was one of the best college players I've ever seen and if I were starting a college team I'd take him over many players who are or have been successful pros. I arbitrarily named Rose, primarily because he was the one guy I could think of who was drafted really high (first) while not making any All-American team. Two guys called me a fool for this. I showed them stats to back up my claims, not thinking this would convince anybody, just that I might get an "oh, I see why you think that." Instead, it led one of them into some pretty extravagant feats of logic. The other one didn't take that route, so I showed him All-American listings. All in all, it proves that I am indeed a fool, not because I'd take college Lofton over college Rose, but because I'd waste any amount of time arguing my case on a bulletin board.
(So, "Please disperse...nothing to see here.)
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we all love lofton and wish that he was still here. fair enough.
 
#84
#84
bleedingTNorange said:
ok papatomany here is the thing, you are going on about how great a college player lofton was and comparing that to rose. once HUGE difference lofton played 4 years and rose played 1, so if you want to truly compare these players lets look at both there freshman years.

Lofton- 13.2 ppg 3.6rpg 1.5apg 1.5a:to 48% fg 46%3

D. Rose-14.9 ppg 4.5rpg 4.7apg 1.66a:to 48%fg 33%3

the ONLY stat in which lofton was better would be shooting the ball from 3. this is a level playing field they were both freshman so the fact that you are going on and on about how much better lofton was than rose is idiotic. if rose had stayed at memhpis for 4 years im sure he would have imrpoved just as lofton did, but all we can go off of is each of their freshman year's and clearly rose had a better one. one other little tid bit you may wanna think about, how far did each team go with these players those years? ill let you figure that one out.
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Rose is the better player, but you also have to understand that Rose was playing half the season against a really, really down CUSA while Lofton was playing against the SEC for half the year.

This is only in regards to the stats.
 
#85
#85
DaDuRkEr said:
Rose is the better player, but you also have to understand that Rose was playing half the season against a really, really down CUSA while Lofton was playing against the SEC for half the year.

This is only in regards to the stats.
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oh i completely understand that aspect and its true. i still IMO say that if i was given the choice start a team with lofton as a freshman or rose for a freshman id take rose. this guy was a nba all star, while if he had stayed at memphis would still be in school. he would be a dominant college player his junior and senior season it wouldnt be fair.
 
#88
#88
bleedingTNorange said:
the difference with lofton/smith and mcbee was that both of them could get their own shots, mcbee relies on others. if you have a guy that is athletic enough and good enough to creat his own 3 point shot and can hit at 40% that is a weapon.
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Chris Lofton could not create his own three point shot and was not particularly athletic. The only possible way that you could say Lofton ever "created" his own three point shot was that he was basically willing to take the shot from the parking lot.

Also, just generally speaking, to be able to create your own three point shot, you have to either take it as a step-back jumper or you have to Rashard Lewis and tall enough to shoot over people. The term "create your own shot" is rarely used in the context of the three pointer. Most three pointers are set up by passes.
 
#89
#89
kidbourbon said:
Chris Lofton could not create his own three point shot and was not particularly athletic. The only possible way that you could say Lofton ever "created" his own three point shot was that he was basically willing to take the shot from the parking lot.

Also, just generally speaking, to be able to create your own three point shot, you have to either take it as a step-back jumper or you have to Rashard Lewis and tall enough to shoot over people. The term "create your own shot" is rarely used in the context of the three pointer. Most three pointers are set up by passes.
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Your right the Three over a 6' 9" wasn't login creating his own shot. The spin move and up and indeed against Memphis when he dropped 35 wasn't creating his own shot. He patented the step back drive an pull up, guess that's not creating you shot either. Did he get a lot of his 3's off of passes, yes. Was he capable of creating shot like lebron or Kobe, no. Could he go off the dribble and create a shot on a occasion, absolutely. I'll help you out go to YouTube type in Chris lofton watch his highlights because clearly you've never seen him before. Saying he can't create his shot anybody than mcbee could is asinine. There is a reason lofton averaged 20+ and mcbee averages about 6.
 
#90
#90
kidbourbon said:
Chris Lofton could not create his own three point shot and was not particularly athletic. The only possible way that you could say Lofton ever "created" his own three point shot was that he was basically willing to take the shot from the parking lot.

Also, just generally speaking, to be able to create your own three point shot, you have to either take it as a step-back jumper or you have to Rashard Lewis and tall enough to shoot over people. The term "create your own shot" is rarely used in the context of the three pointer. Most three pointers are set up by passes.
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Derek rose and Chris Paul disagree you have to be able to shoot over people. Also, stephon curry disagrees that you can't creat your own shot from 3. If its a fade away who freaking cares if your hirtting it at 45% it a damn good shot.
 
#91
#91
bleedingTNorange said:
Derek rose and Chris Paul disagree you have to be able to shoot over people. Also, stephon curry disagrees that you can't creat your own shot from 3. If its a fade away who freaking cares if your hirtting it at 45% it a damn good shot.
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All I had to do was watch a few Lofton highlight reels on YouTube this morning to see that he created his own shots. You're arguing semantics if you say he didn't "create" his own shots. He found ways to get open in one-on-one, man-to-man situations using his own athleticism and ball handling.
 
#92
#92
MannyD said:
All I had to do was watch a few Lofton highlight reels on YouTube this morning to see that he created his own shots. You're arguing semantics if you say he didn't "create" his own shots. He found ways to get open in one-on-one, man-to-man situations using his own athleticism and ball handling.
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Uhm I think you quoted the wrong person, I've been saying he created his own the other guy says he didnt.
 
#94
#94
bleedingTNorange said:
Derek rose and Chris Paul disagree you have to be able to shoot over people. Also, stephon curry disagrees that you can't creat your own shot from 3. If its a fade away who freaking cares if your hirtting it at 45% it a damn good shot.
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Derek Rose and Chris Paul can create their own shot.

Chris Lofton can't create his own shot.

Hell, pull up a draft profile of the guy. It's the first thing you'll read about him. The first link that came up: DraftExpressProfile: Chris Lofton, Stats, Comparisons, and Outlook

Excerpt: Offensively, Lofton is very much a role player with more than half his field goal attempts coming from behind the three-point arc and doing little of his own shot creation.

And, yes, perhaps it is semantics. But it's always semantics. And the term "create your own shot" means something. And it isn't something Chris Lofton can do.
 
#95
#95
bleedingTNorange said:
Your right the Three over a 6' 9" wasn't login creating his own shot. The spin move and up and indeed against Memphis when he dropped 35 wasn't creating his own shot. He patented the step back drive an pull up, guess that's not creating you shot either. Did he get a lot of his 3's off of passes, yes. Was he capable of creating shot like lebron or Kobe, no. Could he go off the dribble and create a shot on a occasion, absolutely. I'll help you out go to YouTube type in Chris lofton watch his highlights because clearly you've never seen him before. Saying he can't create his shot anybody than mcbee could is asinine. There is a reason lofton averaged 20+ and mcbee averages about 6.
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Could you write this again in English?
 
#96
#96
kidbourbon said:
Derek Rose and Chris Paul can create their own shot.

Chris Lofton can't create his own shot.

Hell, pull up a draft profile of the guy. It's the first thing you'll read about him. The first link that came up: DraftExpressProfile: Chris Lofton, Stats, Comparisons, and Outlook

Excerpt: Offensively, Lofton is very much a role player with more than half his field goal attempts coming from behind the three-point arc and doing little of his own shot creation.

And, yes, perhaps it is semantics. But it's always semantics. And the term "create your own shot" means something. And it isn't something Chris Lofton can do.
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There's a big difference in what your pointing out. People can create their shot in college that doesnt mean they can in the NBA. At NO point did I say he could create his shot in the nba I've said in other threads that's what has kept him out, but to say he couldn't Crete hi shot in college is insane. So jimmer can't create his own shot? He sure as hell did in college but can to that level in the NBA so that means he can't? The debate wasn't can he create his shot in the NBA it was college, HUGE DIFFERENCE!
 
#97
#97
kidbourbon said:
Could you write this again in English?
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Originally Posted by bleedingTNorange:
Your right the Three over a 6' 9" durant wasn't lofton creating his own shot. The spin move and up and under moves against Memphis when he dropped 35 wasn't creating his own shot. He patented the step back drive an pull up, guess that's not creating you shot either. Did he get a lot of his 3's off of passes, yes. Was he capable of creating shot like lebron or Kobe, no. Could he go off the dribble and create a shot on a occasion, absolutely. I'll help you out go to YouTube type in Chris lofton watch his highlights because clearly you've never seen him before. Saying he can't create his shot anybody than mcbee could is asinine. There is a reason lofton averaged 20+ and mcbee averages about 6.


Better?
 
#98
#98
kidbourbon said:
Derek Rose and Chris Paul can create their own shot.

Chris Lofton can't create his own shot.

Hell, pull up a draft profile of the guy. It's the first thing you'll read about him. The first link that came up: DraftExpressProfile: Chris Lofton, Stats, Comparisons, and Outlook

Excerpt: Offensively, Lofton is very much a role player with more than half his field goal attempts coming from behind the three-point arc and doing little of his own shot creation.

And, yes, perhaps it is semantics. But it's always semantics. And the term "create your own shot" means something. And it isn't something Chris Lofton can do.
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Definition of term:
Create your shot- when one is capable of creating their own room or make a shot with no help from teammates or others.

Lofton doesn't fit that?
 
#99
#99
bleedingTNorange said:
Uhm I think you quoted the wrong person, I've been saying he created his own the other guy says he didnt.
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I was agreeing with you disagreeing with kidB.

As is pertains to draft scouts' evaluation of Lofton's shot creation, I'd probably agree with that in the context of the NBA. Lofton wouldn't be viewed as effective at creating his own shot. In college, however, he did it quite often. Sure, a lot of his shots came of screens and kick-outs, but a lot of them also came as a result of jab steps, getting guys off of their feet, and step backs. Also consider the context of how this argument came about. Skylar McBee can't create his own shot relative to the way Lofton could.
 
#100
#100
MannyD said:
I was agreeing with you disagreeing with kidB.

As is pertains to draft scouts' evaluation of Lofton's shot creation, I'd probably agree with that in the context of the NBA. Lofton wouldn't be viewed as effective at creating his own shot. In college, however, he did it quite often. Sure, a lot of his shots came of screens and kick-outs, but a lot of them also came as a result of jab steps, getting guys off of their feet, and step backs. Also consider the context of how this argument came about. Skylar McBee can't create his own shot relative to the way Lofton could.
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Oh ok just didn't new people thinking in bashing lofton too. Exactly, when e decided to take a NBA draft scout on him this argument was over. Where talking about college, comparing the 2 games is the dumbest move I've ever seen in this thread, it doesn't translate at all.
 
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