If we go 4 - 8 do we fire Butch? (merged)

#331
#331
LotteryPick said:
Wait, wait, wait. You still think Dooley can coach?

There is absolutely no way he would have won more than 5 games. How can you expect a team to win, when they refuse to buy into the head coach?
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I think the guy never really had the opportunity to just be a HC. Walked into to much of a mess, and needed to focus way to much on getting those things straighten out. He took a team that in '11 was getting spanked in the 2 half, and was taking those teams to the wire in '12. So saw some positives. People on here were to busy wishing for the team to lose so we could get Gruden, to see any positives.

It's funny how there are so many ecoaches on here that think they can bash a guy that they couldn't hold a candle to in coaching. A guy that knows more about SEC football/coaching than anyone on here, yet people feel they are qualified to degrade the guy. Yet the best coach in CFB considers the guy a good friend. I'd bet if Saban were asked if Dooley could coach if given a fair shot and not 2.5 yrs after taking over a hot mess of a program he'd say yes. Yet people on here who obviously think thier s**t don't stink cause mommy told them so feel they can bash the guy.

It's not surprising having issues with players like Bray and recruits he didn't build recruiting relationships with. Anyone that has walked into manage a biz in disarray understands the difficulty of dealing with current employees that r use to doing things a certain way. Sabotage, drama, etc are all apart of it. Then throw in a scenario where the owners child is there, and a f-up too. Knowing he can't get fired and has every ability to make things worse. That's the way I saw Bray. Takes time to purge negatives out and there are struggles to that pt. If Dooley were to have stayed and bray left to the Nfl like he did I believe this season would have been the first season, for me, to start really judging his coaching ability.

Let's not act like Dooley is the only coach to ever have issues with players. Ie...Brian Kelly breakdown on TV and now look at Johnny Manziel who needs to be controlled or thie Aggies are going to have issues this upcoming yr because of it. I've said they will before, but him acting the way he is will be a problem for team chemistry. Teams are ready for him this yr and if things start going bad then it's gonna spiral down real fast for the Aggies. Won't be surprised if the guy ends up not playing at least some this season due to his own doing. But just like Dooley had to with Bray/DR/J. Jackson/many others I'm sure Sumlin is trying to look over things he would not normally want to. The kid is a major positive AND negative PR issue.

Just all IMHO that's all....
 
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#332
#332
Oskie Volum said:
I think the guy never really had the opportunity to just be a HC. Walked into to much of a mess, and needed to focus way to much on getting those things straighten out. He took a team that in '11 was getting spanked in the 2 half, and was taking those teams to the wire in '12. So saw some positives. People on here were to busy wishing for the team to lose so we could get Gruden, to see any positives.

It's funny how there are so many ecoaches on here that think they can bash a guy that they couldn't hold a candle to in coaching. A guy that knows more about SEC football/coaching than anyone on here, yet people feel they are qualified to degrade the guy. Yet the best coach in CFB considers the guy a good friend. I'd bet if Saban were asked if Dooley could coach if given a fair shot and not 2.5 yrs after taking over a hot mess of a program he'd say yes. Yet people on here who obviously think thier s**t don't stink cause mommy told them so feel they can bash the guy.

It's not surprising having issues with players like Bray and recruits he didn't build recruiting relationships with. Anyone that has walked into manage a biz in disarray understands the difficulty of dealing with current employees that r use to doing things a certain way. Sabotage, drama, etc are all apart of it. Then throw in a scenario where the owners child is there, and a f-up too. Knowing he can't get fired and has every ability to make things worse. That's the way I saw Bray. Takes time to purge negatives out and there are struggles to that pt. If Dooley were to have stayed and bray left to the Nfl like he did I believe this season would have been the first season, for me, to start really judging his coaching ability.

Let's not act like Dooley is the only coach to ever have issues with players. Ie...Brian Kelly breakdown on TV and now look at Johnny Manziel who needs to be controlled or thie Aggies are going to have issues this upcoming yr because of it. I've said they will before, but him acting the way he is will be a problem for team chemistry. Teams are ready for him this yr and if things start going bad then it's gonna spiral down real fast for the Aggies. Won't be surprised if the guy ends up not playing at least some this season due to his own doing. But just like Dooley had to with Bray/DR/J. Jackson/many others I'm sure Sumlin is trying to look over things he would not normally want to. The kid is a major positive AND negative PR issue.

Just all IMHO that's all....
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Dooley couldnt coach worth a lick. His players had no respect for him. Dooley just didn't lose control of one guy. He lost his entire team in 2011, and 2012. Everybody was running him over since day 1. I bet some fans can coach better than Dooley. We wouldn't have 13 men on the field or wasting time outs. Dooley made too many mistakes and paid for it.
 
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#333
#333
Oskie Volum said:
I think the guy never really had the opportunity to just be a HC. Walked into to much of a mess, and needed to focus way to much on getting those things straighten out. He took a team that in '11 was getting spanked in the 2 half, and was taking those teams to the wire in '12. So saw some positives. People on here were to busy wishing for the team to lose so we could get Gruden, to see any positives.

It's funny how there are so many ecoaches on here that think they can bash a guy that they couldn't hold a candle to in coaching. A guy that knows more about SEC football/coaching than anyone on here, yet people feel they are qualified to degrade the guy. Yet the best coach in CFB considers the guy a good friend. I'd bet if Saban were asked if Dooley could coach if given a fair shot and not 2.5 yrs after taking over a hot mess of a program he'd say yes. Yet people on here who obviously think thier s**t don't stink cause mommy told them so feel they can bash the guy.

It's not surprising having issues with players like Bray and recruits he didn't build recruiting relationships with. Anyone that has walked into manage a biz in disarray understands the difficulty of dealing with current employees that r use to doing things a certain way. Sabotage, drama, etc are all apart of it. Then throw in a scenario where the owners child is there, and a f-up too. Knowing he can't get fired and has every ability to make things worse. That's the way I saw Bray. Takes time to purge negatives out and there are struggles to that pt. If Dooley were to have stayed and bray left to the Nfl like he did I believe this season would have been the first season, for me, to start really judging his coaching ability.

Let's not act like Dooley is the only coach to ever have issues with players. Ie...Brian Kelly breakdown on TV and now look at Johnny Manziel who needs to be controlled or thie Aggies are going to have issues this upcoming yr because of it. I've said they will before, but him acting the way he is will be a problem for team chemistry. Teams are ready for him this yr and if things start going bad then it's gonna spiral down real fast for the Aggies. Won't be surprised if the guy ends up not playing at least some this season due to his own doing. But just like Dooley had to with Bray/DR/J. Jackson/many others I'm sure Sumlin is trying to look over things he would not normally want to. The kid is a major positive AND negative PR issue.

Just all IMHO that's all....
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I agree with everything that you said. This is a very well thought out post.
 
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#334
#334
Oskie Volum said:
It's funny how there are so many ecoaches on here that think they can bash a guy that they couldn't hold a candle to in coaching.
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what has dooley done as a head coach to justify that "candle?" he had a losing record at la tech, hired only because of his father's name, had a losing record at UT--never improved. He can't coach.
 
#335
#335
VolsRule said:
what has dooley done as a head coach to justify that "candle?" he had a losing record at la tech, hired only because of his father's name, had a losing record at UT--never improved. He can't coach.
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What record would a "good coach" have had in 6 years if he had walked into the situations that were present at La. Tech in 2007 and U.T. in 2010?
 
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#337
#337
1972 Grad said:
What record would a "good coach" have had in 6 years if he had walked into the situations that were present at La. Tech in 2007 and U.T. in 2010?
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A better one?...How about a winning streak against Mizzou?
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#339
#339
Eddie Vol Halen said:
Tennessee has never lost 8 games in a season. Some think this is not outside the realm of possibility in Coach Butch Jones's first year at the helm.

Do we fire Butch if he loses 8?

My personal feelings are he would have to be eating Dooley Wacky Bambacky to lose 8.

If we do lose 8 next year though, I think it is grounds to fire Hart (might as well include Cheek while we're at it), and the next's guys first job is to line up the next guy. CBJ have to win something special in Y2 to carry-on.

We let Dooley carry-on after the KY loss, and I think we all agree it was a huge, huge mistake.
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Butch might very well get fired if we lose 8 games....When you lose more than Dooley No Excuse will suffice for Tennessee Fans...Heads will Roll.... I don't think 8 Losses are possible so better not happen for CBJ's sake.....
 
#340
#340
Vol4life25 said:
Lol ok he had 2 bad seasons in like 16 years, and won the east a year before he was fired.
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With Cut as the OC. I think that was the point he was trying to make. Fulmer without Cut was pretty mediocre...well, not elite.
 
#341
#341
VKAman said:
Nonsense. We all know 32-41 is the best anyone could possibly do. Who could have taken down that Kentucky juggernaut?
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A Tyler Bray and a Da'Rick Rogers and a couple of others who actually gave a crap, and wanted to win.
 
#343
#343
1972 Grad said:
A Tyler Bray and a Da'Rick Rogers and a couple of others who actually gave a crap, and wanted to win.
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That narrative is moronic. If you're the head coach, and your QB is openly disobeying you or whatever people are claiming, you put in Worley and you win by 30. If a head coach is that helpless, he is absolutely worthless as a leader.
 
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#346
#346
Oskie Volum said:
I think the guy never really had the opportunity to just be a HC. Walked into to much of a mess, and needed to focus way to much on getting those things straighten out. He took a team that in '11 was getting spanked in the 2 half, and was taking those teams to the wire in '12. So saw some positives. People on here were to busy wishing for the team to lose so we could get Gruden, to see any positives.

It's funny how there are so many ecoaches on here that think they can bash a guy that they couldn't hold a candle to in coaching. A guy that knows more about SEC football/coaching than anyone on here, yet people feel they are qualified to degrade the guy. Yet the best coach in CFB considers the guy a good friend. I'd bet if Saban were asked if Dooley could coach if given a fair shot and not 2.5 yrs after taking over a hot mess of a program he'd say yes. Yet people on here who obviously think thier s**t don't stink cause mommy told them so feel they can bash the guy.

It's not surprising having issues with players like Bray and recruits he didn't build recruiting relationships with. Anyone that has walked into manage a biz in disarray understands the difficulty of dealing with current employees that r use to doing things a certain way. Sabotage, drama, etc are all apart of it. Then throw in a scenario where the owners child is there, and a f-up too. Knowing he can't get fired and has every ability to make things worse. That's the way I saw Bray. Takes time to purge negatives out and there are struggles to that pt. If Dooley were to have stayed and bray left to the Nfl like he did I believe this season would have been the first season, for me, to start really judging his coaching ability.

Let's not act like Dooley is the only coach to ever have issues with players. Ie...Brian Kelly breakdown on TV and now look at Johnny Manziel who needs to be controlled or thie Aggies are going to have issues this upcoming yr because of it. I've said they will before, but him acting the way he is will be a problem for team chemistry. Teams are ready for him this yr and if things start going bad then it's gonna spiral down real fast for the Aggies. Won't be surprised if the guy ends up not playing at least some this season due to his own doing. But just like Dooley had to with Bray/DR/J. Jackson/many others I'm sure Sumlin is trying to look over things he would not normally want to. The kid is a major positive AND negative PR issue.

Just all IMHO that's all....
Click to expand...

along with every other aspect of the program, Dooley's recruiting was going downhill. one more year and we would be getting the **** kicked out of us by the likes of Vanderbilt. oh wait a minute..
 
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#347
#347
Boca Vol said:
With Cut as the OC. I think that was the point he was trying to make. Fulmer without Cut was pretty mediocre...well, not elite.
Click to expand...

I don't feel like looking it up, but Fulmer's record without Cuttcliffe is still ALOT better then Dooley, the dude is trying to argue that Dooley is just as good as Fulmer.
 
#348
#348
Vol4life25 said:
I don't feel like looking it up, but Fulmer's record without Cuttcliffe is still ALOT better then Dooley, the dude is trying to argue that Dooley is just as good as Fulmer.
Click to expand...

There is a Dooley that's a HOF coach...but his name is Vince.
 
#350
#350
VKAman said:
That narrative is moronic. If you're the head coach, and your QB is openly disobeying you or whatever people are claiming, you put in Worley and you win by 30. If a head coach is that helpless, he is absolutely worthless as a leader.
Click to expand...
That is what I would have done. We scored 7 points.
 
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