If we go 4 - 8 do we fire Butch? (merged)

#401
#401
Burger said:
All I remember is the massive decline, 2 losing seasons, and getting his ass whipped by Florida almost every year. The past is over. I mean he only won the SEC twice when it was down? If Phil was so great, why did he never dominate?
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You cray cray
 
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#403
#403
Vol4life25 said:
And you have fun winning 7 games a year..
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still 2 more than Fulmer won in his final season

I just don't understand the thought process behind this post. Thinking Fulmer should have been fired doesn't mean anyone wants UT to be mediocre. That's just stupid. We were mediocre in Fulmer's final years so it's the exact opposite. Fulmer backers are the ones clamoring for further mediocrity
 
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#406
#406
Vol4life25 said:
Let me ask you a question....who would be the top 2 best coaches ever to coach at UT.


(Besides Neyland)
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what does that have to do with his performance in his final seasons? There's a difference in pre/post-2001 Fulmer (heck I may even give him thru 2004) that people who constantly post "152-52" can't grasp.

Fulmer's pre-2001 was one of the best. Post puts him below Dickey and Majors
 
#409
#409
utvolpj said:
what does that have to do with his performance in his final seasons? There's a difference in pre/post-2001 Fulmer (heck I may even give him thru 2004) that people who constantly post "152-52" can't grasp.

Fulmer's pre-2001 was one of the best. Post puts him below Dickey and Majors
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All the Fulmer supporters want is for you guys to say " We were wrong, we should of gave him one more year."

But you will never admit that, even if we go through another 3 coaches in 5 years.

In fact....90% of us "Fulmernites" would of never came to Fulmer's support, if he was givin another year and didnt win more then 7 games. We would agree with you guys he should of been fired. But we will never know now.
 
#410
#410
Vol4life25 said:
All the Fulmer supporters want is for you guys to say " We were wrong, we should of gave him one more year."

But you will never admit that, even if we go through another 3 coaches in 5 years.

In fact....90% of us "Fulmernites" would of never came to Fulmer's support, if he was givin another year and didnt win more then 7 games. We would agree with you guys he should of been fired. But we will never know now.
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post-2005 was when he cashed in his NC ring for a reprieve. Regardless of who followed him, Fulmer's performance showed he was done. He was simply hanging around to get a win total
 
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#411
#411
utvolpj said:
congrats to evh/utg for starting a Fulmer thread that few saw coming. Even when you admitted it was a troll job most ignored it. Thankfully the Fulmerites are a dying breed
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utvolpj, I haven't even been involved in the Fulmer discussion that's been going on in this thread.

I called it fantasy to believe we have simply been "treading water" since the firing when we've endured the worst three years of Tennessee football in a century. That is a no-brainer. This thread is proof - a tongue-in-cheek post went epic because of our traumatized fan base (and we have the right to be traumatized).

I've also pointed out that Kiffin actually inherited a truckload of talent, underachieved with it, and did more damage than the Tasmanian Devil in Cracker Barrel while he was on the Hill. Again, no brainer, and no Fulmer.
 
#412
#412
Eddie Vol Halen said:
utvolpj, I haven't even been involved in the Fulmer discussion that's been going on in this thread.
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please don't act like I'm a fool and have no clue what I'm talking about. It's beneath even you

Eddie Vol Halen said:
More confessions. I would have never fired Fulmer. I would NEVER have let Hambone make that decision, and I would NEVER have thought about hiring Lane Kiffin and Derek Dooley. Those two brought some dark days to the Hill.
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#413
#413
utvolpj said:
please don't act like I'm a fool and have no clue what I'm talking about. It's beneath even you
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If that post from over a week ago (taken out of context here, btw) has caused "Fulmer discussion" then clearly "Fulmer discussion" needed to break out.

I have not promoted FD or participated in FD unless ridiculing Kiffin and Dooley counts as FD and unless calling sjt's and tnvolfan's "treading water" hypothesis fantasy since it could not survive scrutiny by the blind fishes of Mammoth Cave.
 
#414
#414
Eddie Vol Halen said:
If that post from over a week ago (taken out of context here, btw) has caused "Fulmer discussion" then clearly "Fulmer discussion" needed to break out.

I have not promoted FD or participated in FD unless ridiculing Kiffin and Dooley counts as FD and unless calling sjt's and tnvolfan's "treading water" hypothesis fantasy since it could not survive scrutiny by the blind fishes of Mammoth Cave.
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not out of context since you started the discussion

gorillas, Pringles and Fulmer is all you do. I eliminated 2 of the 3 and know a troll job when I see one
 
#415
#415
utvolpj said:
not out of context since you started the discussion

gorillas, Pringles and Fulmer is all you do. I eliminated 2 of the 3 and know a troll job when I see one
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Why do you dislike this thread? It is filled with excoriations of me for my tongue-in-cheek OP.

How traumatized the fan base is surprised me, but on reflection, we have every right to be.

The post you took the Fulmer quote from praised Butch. And I started a Grudenite down on Butch.

I don't even remember the gorilla, but it is silly to argue against Pringles as the greatest potato chip.
 
#416
#416
The choice was NOT between two good options when Fulmer left. The choices were:

A) keep a guy who is no longer competing, no longer getting quality players who can stay eligible, no longer able to discipline his program, and most importantly UNWILLING if not unable to change. His retort to criticism in his last year is that "we've won a lot of games around here doing things the way we do them".

B) going out on the market in search for a coach willing to come in and clean up the discipline mess while inheriting a roster that was about to reflect three consecutive bad recruiting classes.
 
#417
#417
I never said anywhere or at anytime anything about "treading water". I said that the roster and state of discipline (arrests et al) are better now than they were 3 years ago. That's really not debatable when you look at the rosters side by side.

The conversation turned to Fulmer because the program is still trying to dig out of the ditch he ran it into. One guy quit before even really trying. The next guy failed to win games. Hopefully the current guy can take the program with what progress has been made and turn it into a winner. If not then we do it again in 3 years.

You are welcome to go back and look at the NUMEROUS threads where I defended not Fulmer but the CORRECT decision to let him try to turn the ship around. I said he should get his shot but there should be no forgiveness. Either he produce consistent improvement or get fired. By the point of 2008 where it was obvious he could not improve or even match 2007 results... I said he needed to go.

At that time I repeatedly said that UT could very possibly take a ride on the coaching carousel before finding "the guy". I am not surprised that UT is now on its third coach since Fulmer except that Kiffin didn't last at least 3 years. You look at UGA, Bama, LSU, ND, USCw, tOSU, OU, Texas,... or virtually any significant historical program and you will see times when they took their turn going through this too.

I hated it. I hoped "like heck" that Fulmer would figure out that what he was doing on almost every front no longer worked. But it was necessary and correct to let him go when he was let go. Waiting another year would have only made things worse and extended the time needed to rebuild.
 
#418
#418
All the Fulmer supporters want is for you guys to say " We were wrong, we should of gave him one more year."

But you will never admit that, even if we go through another 3 coaches in 5 years.
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Correct. I will never admit we should have given Fulmer another year. I'd rather go through Kiffin one-and-dones every year for the next 10 years than to spend one more Saturday watching a sloppy, undisciplined, lethargic, Fulmer-coached team.

In fact....90% of us "Fulmernites" would of never came to Fulmer's support, if he was givin another year and didnt win more then 7 games.
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I doubt it. After 2005 we were told to give him another chance. After 2008 we were told to give him another chance. Had we brought him back for 2009, we would've been told the same thing. There are some people who were never going to let go. It was time to move on.
 
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#419
#419
Vol4life25 said:
All the Fulmer supporters want is for you guys to say " We were wrong, we should of gave him one more year."

But you will never admit that, even if we go through another 3 coaches in 5 years.

In fact....90% of us "Fulmernites" would of never came to Fulmer's support, if he was givin another year and didnt win more then 7 games. We would agree with you guys he should of been fired. But we will never know now.
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He wasn't going to turn it around. I don't give two 5-7 seasons in four years a third chance. 2006-2008 was his second chance, and he went 5-7 in 2008. Most coaches don't get a second chance, and you're asking for a third? I won't ever admit to giving 2 losing seasons within 5 years unless you're building a program from the ashes like Majors.
 
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#420
#420
sjt18 said:
I never said anywhere or at anytime anything about "treading water". I said that the roster and state of discipline (arrests et al) are better now than they were 3 years ago. That's really not debatable when you look at the rosters side by side.

The conversation turned to Fulmer because the program is still trying to dig out of the ditch he ran it into. One guy quit before even really trying. The next guy failed to win games. Hopefully the current guy can take the program with what progress has been made and turn it into a winner. If not then we do it again in 3 years.

You are welcome to go back and look at the NUMEROUS threads where I defended not Fulmer but the CORRECT decision to let him try to turn the ship around. I said he should get his shot but there should be no forgiveness. Either he produce consistent improvement or get fired. By the point of 2008 where it was obvious he could not improve or even match 2007 results... I said he needed to go.

At that time I repeatedly said that UT could very possibly take a ride on the coaching carousel before finding "the guy". I am not surprised that UT is now on its third coach since Fulmer except that Kiffin didn't last at least 3 years. You look at UGA, Bama, LSU, ND, USCw, tOSU, OU, Texas,... or virtually any significant historical program and you will see times when they took their turn going through this too.

I hated it. I hoped "like heck" that Fulmer would figure out that what he was doing on almost every front no longer worked. But it was necessary and correct to let him go when he was let go. Waiting another year would have only made things worse and extended the time needed to rebuild.
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Exactly! Brother, you've been dropping truth-bombs in this thread!
 
#421
#421
Burger said:
He wasn't going to turn it around. I don't give two 5-7 seasons in four years a third chance. 2006-2008 was his second chance, and he went 5-7 in 2008. Most coaches don't get a second chance, and you're asking for a third? I won't ever admit to giving 2 losing seasons within 5 years unless you're building a program from the ashes like Majors.
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Lol so you wouldn't give Fulmer a 3rd chance out of 16 seasons.

But y'all were fine with giving Dooley 3 chances out of 3 seasons.







Makes sense
 
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#422
#422
Here's some interesting data regarding coaching records. It's interesting that the coaching records of Kiffin and Dooley prior to coaching at UT was pretty close to what we got. Surprise! The "other notables" are familiar coaches that most regard as great coaches. CBJ currently falls between these two groups but with a ton of upside, IMO.

Wins Losses Win %
Pre-Tennessee Kiffin 5 15 0.250
Dooley 17 20 0.459
Combined 22 35 0.386

At Tennessee Kiffin 7 6 0.538
Dooley 32 41 0.438
Combined 39 47 0.453

Current Coach Jones 50 27 0.649

Other Notables Neyland 173 31 0.848
Fulmer 152 52 0.745
Majors 185 137 0.575

Meyer 116 23 0.835
Bryant 323 85 0.792
Richt 118 40 0.747
Saban 159 55 0.743
Spurrier 208 77 0.730
 
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#423
#423
Vol4life25 said:
Lol so you wouldn't give Fulmer a 3rd chance out of 16 seasons.

But y'all were fine with giving Dooley 3 chances out of 3 seasons.







Makes sense
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I didn't. He was .500 his first year without the bowl game. The only bowl game worth ever counting is the BCS championship game. He went 5-7 twice and got the axe like Phillip.
 
#424
#424
sjt18 said:
I hated it. I hoped "like heck" that Fulmer would figure out that what he was doing on almost every front no longer worked. But it was necessary and correct to let him go when he was let go. Waiting another year would have only made things worse and extended the time needed to rebuild.
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I'm trying to figure out how SMH ridiculous this sounds given that we have endured the worst three years of Tennessee football in over 100 years.

We will have to disagree on this one.
 
#425
#425
Eddie Vol Halen said:
Tennessee has never lost 8 games in a season. Some think this is not outside the realm of possibility in Coach Butch Jones's first year at the helm.

Do we fire Butch if he loses 8?

My personal feelings are he would have to be eating Dooley Wacky Bambacky to lose 8.

If we do lose 8 next year though, I think it is grounds to fire Hart (might as well include Cheek while we're at it), and the next's guys first job is to line up the next guy. CBJ have to win something special in Y2 to carry-on.

We let Dooley carry-on after the KY loss, and I think we all agree it was a huge, huge mistake.
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One of the more idiotic posts I've read on here in a looooooooooong time. Let the man coach and do his job, you, get back to yours.
 
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