If Wilcox doesn't leave is Dooley still here?

Why yes if Wilcox hasn't left, Dooley woulda national championship last yr!!!! ASK A stupid question---Get a stupid answer!!!!! Geez get on w/the new already

Well... we certainly got the stupid answer part. Thank you.


It would not have taken a NC to save his job. It wouldn't have even taken winning the East though I think it should have been his standard from day 1 to win the East in 4 years or less (or any other HC UT hires). It would have taken a 7 or 8 win season last fall to save his job. Wilcox was without much doubt worth at least 3 wins vs Sunseri.
 
Not another Dooley thread
 

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Dooley is the first coach, however, to lead UT to 3 straight losing seasons. And the first UT coach to post a 17% winning percentage in the SEC. But yeah, I'm sure an assistant coach would have made a big difference.

It would have.... but only if you believe allowing 22 ppg is better than allowing 38 ppg. I know that is a strain for some of you but I tend to believe it.

FTR, it would NOT have been a good thing. Dooley was unlikely to win big at UT so having a situation so bad that there was no choice but to fire him SHOULD benefit the program in the long run.
 
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Maybe, but Dooley is not the first coach to decide to take his chances in overtime and won`t be the last.

Agreed. But I remember thinking what the hell as I listened to the stadium boo him mercilessly. Always easy to second guess, but I think most fans thought he was making a poor decision in the moment. Upon reflection, after the fact, I still think it was wrong.
 
making-no-money.jpg

That's very funny....
 
it would have.... But only if you believe allowing 22 ppg is better than allowing 38 ppg. I know that is a strain for some of you but i tend to believe it.

Ftr, it would not have been a good thing. Dooley was unlikely to win at all at ut so having a situation so bad that there was no choice but to fire him will definitely benefit the program in the long run.

fyp 😊
 
Agreed. But I remember thinking what the hell as I listened to the stadium boo him mercilessly. Always easy to second guess, but I think most fans thought he was making a poor decision in the moment. Upon reflection, after the fact, I still think it was wrong.

I agree. I have never like for any coach to take their chance in overtime. And before overtime I always hated for a coach to settle for a tie. But many coaches make the decision to take their chance in overtime and a lot time it turns out to be the wrong decision.
 
I think the biggest problem with Dooley was guys didn't believe in him.. I got the feeling that a lot of players just didn't buy what he was selling.. He was in over is head and the SEC isn't a training ground for coaches..
 
I think the biggest problem with Dooley was guys didn't believe in him.. I got the feeling that a lot of players just didn't buy what he was selling.. He was in over is head and the SEC isn't a training ground for coaches..

Well said. He failed for many reasons.... this was more than likely the biggest one.
 
It would have.... but only if you believe allowing 22 ppg is better than allowing 38 ppg. I know that is a strain for some of you but I tend to believe it.

Yeah, I guess you can guarantee that Wilcox's defense would have *only* allowed 22 ppg. And I guess you can guarantee that our offense would have scored the same number of points too. I mean, it's not like teams change their game plans based on what scheme they're facing, right? It's not like the flow of a game and adjustments made by coaches due to being ahead or behind influence stats, right?

Remind me again, what was Dooley's record with Wilcox as his DC?
 
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Why the hell do people get all bent out of shape over asking a simple question? Its a forum... its a legit question.
 
I think the biggest problem with Dooley was guys didn't believe in him.. I got the feeling that a lot of players just didn't buy what he was selling.. He was in over is head and the SEC isn't a training ground for coaches..

No the SEC is a burial ground for bad coaches as Dooley (and unfortunately we) found out.
 
fyp ��

Nope. Had Wilcox stayed, Dooley would have put together a few mediocre, just enough to stay employed, seasons. Nine or 10 wins last year. Six or 7 this year and next. Improvements in the roster would have accomplished that much even without him being a good coach.

If you had to be a good coach to win games... then Les Miles would be a sub-.500 coach.
 
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Yeah, I guess you can guarantee that Wilcox's defense would have *only* allowed 22 ppg.
There are no "guarantees" about alternatives that were not chosen... but this comes as close as you can do. Yes. Basically the same D roster PLUS better DL's would have very likely have resulted in AT LEAST as good of results as the year previous AGAINST A HARDER SCHEDULE.

I know that your knee jerk reaction is to throw all reason out when discussing anything about the last 3 years... but please try.

And I guess you can guarantee that our offense would have scored the same number of points too.
No more than you can guarantee it wouldn't. It is VERY likely that a better D makes the O BETTER... not worse.

I mean, it's not like teams change their game plans based on what scheme they're facing, right?
Oh, I see now. Having a better D and the same O would have made UT easier to gameplan for according to you... :whistling:

Blind bias makes smart people act stupid sometimes.

It's not like the flow of a game and adjustments made by coaches due to being ahead or behind influence stats, right?

Remind me again, what was Dooley's record with Wilcox as his DC?

Not relevant. It is only relevant what Wilcox did with the hand HE was dealt.

Wilcox in '11 operating often with little help from the O had a mid-pack D. He did that while playing both NC contenders and Arkansas from the West. He did that with a roster whose most talented players were still Fr and So.

You try way too hard to be irrational just to preserve that "Dooley is 100% evil" bias.

In this one response you have suggested that a D returning almost all of its best players plus adding depth and talent against a lighter schedule would be worse.

You have suggested that a better D would have also made the O worse.

You have suggested that a team with the same O and a better D would have been easier to gameplan and coach against.

I hope you are smarter than that.
 
If you had to be a good coach to win games... then Les Miles would be a sub-.500 coach.

yep. miles is a bad coach. and also stupid.

that is why his record at LSU against ranked teams is something like 32-11.
 
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Nope. Had Wilcox stayed, Dooley would have put together a few mediocre, just enough to stay employed, seasons. Nine or 10 wins last year. Six or 7 this year and next. Improvements in the roster would have accomplished that much even without him being a good coach.

If you had to be a good coach to win games... then Les Miles would be a sub-.500 coach.

Maybe. Don't forget, he was 11-14 WITH Wilcox. All youre doing is speculating at best. A losing coach is a losing coach....

Edit: also, wasn't Wilcox the DC in 2011 when we barely beat Vandy at home and lost to a Kentucky team that didn't have a quarterback?
 
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yep. miles is a bad coach. and also stupid.

that is why his record at LSU against ranked teams is something like 32-11.

He's an extraordinary recruiter. He's not a great X's and O's guy. His own former players have said that they won in spite of him and not because of him. That's about as good of an authority as you can get.

For whatever reason though he can sell a recruit on LSU.
 
Maybe. Don't forget, he was 11-14 WITH Wilcox.
With the worst rosters relative to the competition that UT has had in at least 30 years. Both of those first two years UT had to play around 17 or 18 true Fr in the two deep.

All youre doing is speculating at best. A losing coach is a losing coach....
Speculation is exactly what the topic in this thread REQUIRES.

IT is not speculation to say that Wilcox is a very good DC with a resume to prove it while Sal is nothing more than a good position coach.

Edit: also, wasn't Wilcox the DC in 2011 when we barely beat Vandy at home and lost to a Kentucky team that didn't have a quarterback?

Welll, yes he was. Was it really his fault that the O only scored 7 pts vs UK? UK only had two sustained drives on the day and scored on both. Eight of UK's 13 drives were 3 and out. Only four drives went for more than 4 plays. TOP favored UK by a whopping 36 to 24 minute margin because UT's O just flat out stunk it up at every turn. Wilcox coached well enough to deserve a win.

Vandy's O scored twice in that game... on 6 and 35 yard drives. The 6 yarder was set up by a Bray INT. Their other TD was a 100 yd pick six. Wilcox D also provided the winning TD in OT.
 
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With the worst rosters relative to the competition that UT has had in at least 30 years. Both of those first two years UT had to play around 17 or 18 true Fr in the two deep.

Speculation is exactly what the topic in this thread REQUIRES.

IT is not speculation to say that Wilcox is a very good DC with a resume to prove it while Sal is nothing more than a good position coach.



Welll, yes he was. Was it really his fault that the O only scored 7 pts vs UK? UK only had two sustained drives on the day and scored on both. Eight of UK's 13 drives were 3 and out. Only four drives went for more than 4 plays. TOP favored UK by a whopping 36 to 24 minute margin because UT's O just flat out stunk it up at every turn. Wilcox coached well enough to deserve a win.

Vandy's O scored twice in that game... on 6 and 35 yard drives. The 6 yarder was set up by a Bray INT. Their other TD was a 100 yd pick six. Wilcox D also provided the winning TD in OT.

The point is that it doesn't matter who Dooley's Def Coord is. He lost with Wilcox, he lost with Sunseri, he lost with whoever the hell was his DC down at LA Tech..... and if he ever gets another HC job, which surely to God he won't, he'll lose with that guy too. Some guys just arent cut out to be in positions of leadership.... In my humble opinion, Dooley showed, over the course of 6 seasons with 2 different programs, that he's one of those guys. Doesnt make him a bad guy, just a bad college head football coach. Unfortunately for UT, the program had to suffer for it..... which, with all due respect, I don't care what you or anybody else says, it did indeed do while he was at UT.

Also I agree with your statement about speculation, that's surely what this board is a large percent of the time. I also agree that Wilcox is a good D Coord, that Sunseri is a bad D Coord and merely a good position coach - the evidence bears this out. In that same vain, the evidence shows that Dooley is a bad D1 Collegiate Football Head Coach.... from A to Z
 
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He's an extraordinary recruiter. He's not a great X's and O's guy. His own former players have said that they won in spite of him and not because of him. That's about as good of an authority as you can get.

For whatever reason though he can sell a recruit on LSU.

miles has some kind of disconnect between his brain and his mouth, and ends up saying some nonsensical things -- kind of like GHW Bush.

but his record says all that needs to be said. he is doing a great job running the program. and that is not possible if he is a "bad" coach, regardless of what a 20 year old player says.

plus, it takes a lot more than great players to win ball games. just ask phil fulmer, lane kiffin, mark richt, charlie weiss, and mack brown -- for a start.
 
blah blah blah blah...it isn't relevant that Dooley lost to everyone when Wilcox was his DC too, I've determined that Wilcox would have made him a winner the last year based on pure speculation and wishful thinking...blah blah blah

There, I shortened it for you.
 
With the worst rosters relative to the competition that UT has had in at least 30 years. Both of those first two years UT had to play around 17 or 18 true Fr in the two deep.

Speculation is exactly what the topic in this thread REQUIRES.

IT is not speculation to say that Wilcox is a very good DC with a resume to prove it while Sal is nothing more than a good position coach.



Welll, yes he was. Was it really his fault that the O only scored 7 pts vs UK? UK only had two sustained drives on the day and scored on both. Eight of UK's 13 drives were 3 and out. Only four drives went for more than 4 plays. TOP favored UK by a whopping 36 to 24 minute margin because UT's O just flat out stunk it up at every turn. Wilcox coached well enough to deserve a win.

Vandy's O scored twice in that game... on 6 and 35 yard drives. The 6 yarder was set up by a Bray INT. Their other TD was a 100 yd pick six. Wilcox D also provided the winning TD in OT.

You missed the point. Wilcox may have coached well enough to win, but Dooley didn't. Again, he's the issue, not Wilcox.
 
Moot point at this juncture in time. If you want to fantasize situations, go for the full monty:

If Robert Neyland was immortal and still head coach, would we be National Champions every year?
 

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