Illinois parade shooting spree

#327
#327
Vol8188 said:
Yes. For many people it is a valid alternative and when lifestyle changes can be made, they should be attempted first. What would you like me provide evidence for specifically?
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Why *should* they be attempted first? If you're strictly talking about serotonin, that would indicate a chemical imbalance that a lot of these drugs are specifically designed to alter.

Example, I suffer from insomnia to varying degrees at times. I can drink all the chamomile tea, take melatonin, exercise an hour before bed, or regulate my daily routine all I want, but at the end of the day, that ambien is going to be the only thing that puts me down effectively.
 
#329
#329
DinkinFlicka said:
Why *should* they be attempted first? If you're strictly talking about serotonin, that would indicate a chemical imbalance that a lot of these drugs are specifically designed to alter.

Example, I suffer from insomnia to varying degrees at times. I can drink all the chamomile tea, take melatonin, exercise an hour before bed, or regulate my daily routine all I want, but at the end of the day, that ambien is going to be the only thing that puts me down effectively.
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Because diet, exercise and sleep do not have detachment and suicide as side effects.

What would indicate a chemical imbalance? I'm not following you there. Yes, the drugs increase serotonin. Yes, serotonin helps you feel better. No, that does not indicate they have underlying lack of serotonin.

No different than the insulin example I gave earlier. It's a dangerous med. Some need it because they do not produce insulin. Others can get by with changes made in their life and never require insulin. If we can avoid a potentially dangerous medication, we should. Giving type 2 diabetics insulin would help them. That does not mean they have a problem with low insulin levels.

Good for you. It sounds like you tried all the other things that you should have before taking a dangerous medicine like Ambien. Can we agree that is not true of everyone on Ambien or any other drug?
 
#330
#330
davethevol said:
Several of these shooters have shown they are mentally unhinged with way too many warning signs to ignore. We clearly have a mental health problem in this country that isn’t being dealt with. It’s time to bring back the asylums.
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I still say fathers in the homes... Maybe we should do both. Bing back fathers and asylums, but leave 2A alone.
 
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#331
#331
Vol8188 said:
Because diet, exercise and sleep do not have detachment and suicide as side effects.

What would indicate a chemical imbalance? I'm not following you there. Yes, the drugs increase serotonin. Yes, serotonin helps you feel better. No, that does not indicate they have underlying lack of serotonin.

No different than the insulin example I gave earlier. It's a dangerous med. Some need it because they do not produce insulin. Others can get by with changes made in their life and never require insulin. If we can avoid a potentially dangerous medication, we should. Giving type 2 diabetics insulin would help them. That does not mean they have a problem with low insulin levels.

Good for you. It sounds like you tried all the other things that you should have before taking a dangerous medicine like Ambien. Can we agree that is not true of everyone on Ambien or any other drug?
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There's certainly a risk to taking any medicine with physiological effects on the brain, but that's why people who go to medical school for nearly a decade are the only ones who can prescribe them.

Bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, histrionic personality disorder, borderline personality disorder of present a chemical imbalance in the brain. They can sometimes be addressed with lifestyle changes but oftentimes that can only be so effective.

Failing to medicate severe mental illness can be just as, if not far more dangerous in terms of suicide or self harm.
 
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#332
#332
davethevol said:
Several of these shooters have shown they are mentally unhinged with way too many warning signs to ignore. We clearly have a mental health problem in this country that isn’t being dealt with. It’s time to bring back the asylums.
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It's a difficult issue. I agree with the court rulings. We should attempt to maximize the number of people who are allowed to live independently. As a result x% of people will slip through the cracks. I think of it as similar to our legal system that is designed more so to prevent wrongful incarceration than it is to ensure rightful incarceration.

There's no great answer, but I think preventing wrongful incarceration is the direction we should lean.
 
#334
#334
DinkinFlicka said:
There's certainly a risk to taking any medicine with physiological effects on the brain, but that's why people who go to medical school for nearly a decade are the only ones who can prescribe them.

Bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, histrionic personality disorder, borderline personality disorder of present a chemical imbalance in the brain. They can sometimes be addressed with lifestyle changes but oftentimes that can only be so effective.

Failing to medicate severe mental illness can be just as, if not far more dangerous in terms of suicide or self harm.
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We are talking more anxiety/depression than major depressive disorder of schizophrenia here. You realize no-one diagnosed with any of those has chemicals drawn from their blood to test right?
 
#335
#335
Vol8188 said:
We are talking more anxiety/depression than major depressive disorder of schizophrenia here. You realize no-one diagnosed with any of those has chemicals drawn from their blood to test right?
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There are no tests for neurotransmitter deficiencies for any illness we're discussing. That's why dosages of different meds are adjusted until the patient is satisfied.

Serotonin is the only one you can find.
 
#339
#339
InVOLuntary said:
We create ailments to fit a drug. I wonder if there is a correlation between an increase in mental illness and the time when pharmaceutical companies were granted permission to advertise on TV?
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You all keep beating around the bush and hitting around the edges... You clearly see what the problem is. Of course there is a correlation.
 
#340
#340
DinkinFlicka said:
There are no tests for neurotransmitter deficiencies for any illness we're discussing. That's why dosages of different meds are adjusted until the patient is satisfied.

Serotonin is the only one you can find.
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And no one checks serotonin levels either. Are you starting to get my point? We are assuming you have a problem with these levels
 
#342
#342
Vol8188 said:
And no one checks serotonin levels either. Are you starting to get my point? We are assuming you have a problem with these levels
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I see your point. I just don't necessarily agree with it. Sure, there are those who are "barred out" so to speak and just medicate themselves into numbness, but medication is usually a step after lifestyle adjustments aren't cutting it. For instance, drinking regularly and taking most meds for anxiety don't mix. Just about anyone I've known in this situation has ceased boozing first, and then resorted to medication.
 
#343
#343
DinkinFlicka said:
I see your point. I just don't necessarily agree with it. Sure, there are those who are "barred out" so to speak and just medicate themselves into numbness, but medication is usually a step after lifestyle adjustments aren't cutting it. For instance, drinking regularly and taking most meds for anxiety don't mix. Just about anyone I've known in this situation has ceased boozing first, and then resorted to medication.
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It’s not even that. Sure some people drug seek. What I’m stating is that many are being wrongly told they have a chemical imbalance without any real evidence of such. So how many actually have real issues with chemical imbalances? Idk. But not 100%
 
#344
#344
DinkinFlicka said:
I see your point. I just don't necessarily agree with it. Sure, there are those who are "barred out" so to speak and just medicate themselves into numbness, but medication is usually a step after lifestyle adjustments aren't cutting it. For instance, drinking regularly and taking most meds for anxiety don't mix. Just about anyone I've known in this situation has ceased boozing first, and then resorted to medication.
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This last sentence deserves its own response. That’s what I’m talking about. We should make lifestyle changes first and see if they help before jumping to medication.

That’s my issue. If you got to your provider today and answer that you anxiety on a questionairre, they will offer you an ssri. The same is done with adhd. You answer the right survey questions.

That’s not effective medicine. There’s no real attempt to understand what is actually going on with the patient. Rather they just claim “you have a chemical imbalance” without any real knowledge of such.

That’s a problem
 
#346
#346
0nelilreb said:
First world problems … instant gratification, a lack of self responsibility and social media platforms that promote self esteem based off of likes and approvals from strangers .
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Yep - all contributing factors.
 
#347
#347
Vol8188 said:
That's the opposite of your point. Your point is that this is a problem created by inequality/big pharma. Not that the same level of these issues likely exists in various populations but they just can't afford to address it.

So if by "this is due to our economic system" you mean we are wealthy enough to concern ourselves with chronic rather than acute conditions, then we agree.

But what you appear to be saying is the complete opposite of that (our wealth causes anxiety/depression)
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Absolutely no reason why both can't be (and are) factors.
 
#349
#349
hog88 said:
Same here. It boggles my mind to listen to them talk about all of their troubles. I really want to jump up and say "you stupid cow, you live in a mcmansion, drive a xyz luxury suv, have never missed a meal in your life and you need drugs to help you through the day"?
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There might be a lesson in there somewhere.
 
#350
#350
Rasputin_Vol said:
You all keep beating around the bush and hitting around the edges... You clearly see what the problem is. Of course there is a correlation.
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Sometimes it's best to let people find their own path to the destination rather than drag them.
 
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