Iraq and Afghanistan Wars Not Worth It: Pew Research

#28
#28
Rasputin_Vol said:
Should we even have been there in 1001? April Glasper and the Iraqis had spoken with each other weeks before the August invasion of Kuwait and Glasper assured the Iraqis that it was not an affair the US would be involved in.
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More warped history lessons from "The World According to Ras."

I quote:

U.S. Ambassador Glaspie
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– I have direct instructions from President Bush to improve our relations with Iraq. We have considerable sympathy for your quest for higher oil prices, the immediate cause of your confrontation with Kuwait. (pause) As you know, I lived here for years and admire your extraordinary efforts to rebuild your country. We know you need funds. We understand that, and our opinion is that you should have the opportunity to rebuild your country. (pause) We can see that you have deployed massive numbers of troops in the south. Normally that would be none of our business, but when this happens in the context of your threat s against Kuwait, then it would be reasonable for us to be concerned. For this reason, I have received an instruction to ask you, in the spirit of friendship – not confrontation – regarding your intentions: Why are your troops massed so very close to Kuwait’s borders?

Saddam Hussein – As you know, for years now I have made every effort to reach a settlement on our dispute with Kuwait. There is to be a meeting in two days; I am prepared to give negotiations only this one more brief chance. (pause) When we (the Iraqis) meet (with the Kuwaitis) and we see there is hope, then nothing will happen. But if we are unable to find a solution, then it will be natural that Iraq will not accept death.

U.S. Ambassador Glaspie – What solutions would be acceptable?

Saddam Hussein – If we could keep the whole of the Shatt al Arab – our strategic goal in our war with Iran – we will make concessions (to the Kuwaitis). But, if we are forced to choose between keeping half of the Shatt and the whole of Iraq (i.e., in Saddam s view, including Kuwait ) then we will give up all of the Shatt to defend our claims on Kuwait to keep the whole of Iraq in the shape we wish it to be. (pause) What is the United States’ opinion on this?

U.S. Ambassador Glaspie – We have no opinion on your Arab – Arab conflicts, such as your dispute with Kuwait. Secretary (of State James) Baker has directed me to emphasize the instruction, first given to Iraq in the 1960’s, that the Kuwait issue is not associated with America.
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Gulf War Documents: Meeting between Saddam Hussein and US Ambassador to Iraq April Glaspie - Global Research

Since when did a "dispute" turn into an all out invasion and occupation? Furthermore, we originally sent in troops to secure Saudi Arabia, not liberate Kuwait. That happened far later with UN Resolutions authorizing force to expel Iraq from Kuwait. Regardless, she raised the red flag with him in that meeting and has taken a beating in history for the last quote.
 
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#29
#29
Grand Vol said:
More warped history lessons from "The World According to Ras."

I quote:



Gulf War Documents: Meeting between Saddam Hussein and US Ambassador to Iraq April Glaspie - Global Research

Since when did a "dispute" turn into an all out invasion and occupation? Furthermore, we originally sent in troops to secure Saudi Arabia, not liberate Kuwait. That happened far later with UN Resolutions authorizing force to expel Iraq from Kuwait. Regardless, she raised the red flag with him in that meeting and has taken a beating in history for the last quote.
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How can anyone else not interpret that as the US not getting involved in Arab affairs? And you ask since when does a "dispute" turn into an all out invasion... hell, she opened the talks asking why Saddam had amassed so many troops near the Kuwaiti border. Obvious, they had know that an invasion was imminent...
 
#40
#40
It’s about to get dangerous.
 

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#47
#47
Rasputin_Vol said:
Time for us to leave the sandbox... after 18+ years, its well past time to get out of there.
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And then what? If we pulled every Military personnel, contractor and gave up on every interest. Do you think the world would immediately become a safer place? Iran would likely take control of everything to the Saudi, Jordan & Israel border. It would be open season on anything western or perceived to be an American or Western interest. Travel in the Persian gulf and the gulf of aden would be nonexistent with pirates from Yemen and Somalia control the water ways backed by Iran. Oil prices would skyrocket. Terror camps would likely once again pop up in the middle east and east Africa. In six months attacks across Europe would probably go up. It would not be a fun place and eventually it would make it's way here do to refugees and immigration.

Its cliche but let's fight them on their turf and not ours.
 
#48
#48
CagleMtnVol said:
And then what? If we pulled every Military personnel, contractor and gave up on every interest. Do you think the world would immediately become a safer place? Iran would likely take control of everything to the Saudi, Jordan & Israel border. It would be open season on anything western or perceived to be an American or Western interest. Travel in the Persian gulf and the gulf of aden would be nonexistent with pirates from Yemen and Somalia control the water ways backed by Iran. Oil prices would skyrocket. Terror camps would likely once again pop up in the middle east and east Africa. In six months attacks across Europe would probably go up. It would not be a fun place and eventually it would make it's way here do to refugees and immigration.

Its cliche but let's fight them on their turf and not ours.
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Pretty much everything you said is already happening.

Gas has been up since we landed.
Depending on how deep you believe Iran/Hezbollah is they already control Iraq and Sryia as well as Lebanon.
Sucks to be the not right type of Muslim in most regions of the ME already, western , christian, gay, know how to read etc.
Attacks in europe have been going up, more in part to their immigration policy than anything.
Pirates already exist, again Iran has seized ships and been blowing holes in others.

We've tried intervention. Too many lives and too much money already.
 
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