Irwin: Guarantano throws a prettier ball than Manning, but doesn't have the intangibles

#53
#53
TexasVolfan1 said:
At the end of the day I don’t think it matter much who starts. Neither one of them is a game changer. Just ride this season out with whoever has the hot hand and hope Shrout or Maurer pans out next year.
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Guarantano is just a sophomore so its not like he is leaving anytime soon. Shrout may beat him out but I dont see it
 
#54
#54
I have seen a few themes in this and other threads that I believe need to be put to bed:

1. JG needs to improve his QB "soft skills." This IS a valid criticism of JG; still love the kids toughness but at some point you have to be able to recognize what the defense is doing or typically does in the situation (down, distance, field position, score, time remaining). Defenses at this level are very good disguising their coverage or blitz schemes but film will tell you when and what they tend to do. The OC should also be calling against these tendencies and communication between O-Line and QB is critical in getting into the proper protections.

2. KC should be the starter; I disagree. KC looked better against bama but has far more experience with actual coaching and in-college level games; not unexpected. As others have pointed out he wasn't playing against the same defense that JG was as the game was in hand. This is not against KC, I think he is very good but also don't think he fares any better than JG if he started. Pruitt and Helton bet on the future w/JG and we aren't winning much this year regardless. We should stick with him (if he is healthy) and know what we are getting next year based on improvement through the end of the season. The interesting decision is who takes the reigns next year if JG isn't as coachable as he needs to be.

3. CJP isn't the guy because of the 'bama result. We just played the closest thing to an NFL roster in college football. If you didn't expect that to happen reality isn't your strong suit. The game was a perfect example of lack of experience, team speed and overall talent going up against the exact opposite. We are three years away from knowing if we will be competitive w/Bama in the near future. Don't hold your breath though, no one else in college football is either year in and year out.

Sorry (not sorry) for the rant..... On to USCe.
 
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#55
#55
When I've been critical of JG in the past, it was primarily his inability to sense pressure and staring down receivers. Sensing pressure is one of those intangible skills I think you either have or don't (i.e., hard to teach this). However, we should be able to teach him how to recognize where the pressure will come from. I haven't seen a lot of improvement in this area and he obviously continues to struggle with it. He's improved in a lot of areas, but still has a lot of work to do in this area. Peyton just had the intangibles - however, a lot of those intangibles came from working his butt off and watching tons of film. Perhaps JG can improve and I certainly hope so. Our O-line definitely has some issues, but a good portion of the sacks are on JG and not necessarily the line.
 
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#56
#56
I'll say this. I believe that Chryst does look more comfy back there and probably reads defenses better than JG. I think the arm talent goes to JG hands down even though Chryst made some exceptional throws. I believe that JG has become a better QB with Chryst being here. I can't help but wonder if Pruitt is trying to stick with JG for continuity with the receivers for not only this season but next as well. I know that a couple of or receivers may declare early (I really hope not), and that could change some things so who knows.
 
#57
#57
GoVols64 said:
I have seen a few themes in this and other threads that I believe need to be put to bed:

2. KC should be the starter; I disagree. KC looked better against bama but has far more experience with actual coaching and in-college level games; not unexpected. As others have pointed out he wasn't playing against the same defense that JG was as the game was in hand. This is not against KC, I think he is very good but also don't think he fares any better than JG if he started. Pruitt and Helton bet on the future w/JG and we aren't winning much this year regardless. We should stick with him (if he is healthy) and know what we are getting next year based on improvement through the end of the season. The interesting decision is who takes the reigns next year if JG isn't as coachable as he needs to be.

1. JG needs to improve his QB "soft skills." This IS a valid criticism of JG; still love the kids toughness but at some point you have to be able to recognize what the defense is doing or typically does in the situation (down, distance, field position, score, time remaining). Defenses at this level are very good disguising their coverage or blitz schemes but film will tell you when and what they tend to do. The OC should also be calling against these tendencies and communication between O-Line and QB is critical in getting into the proper protections.

3. CJP isn't the guy because of the 'bama result. We just played the closest thing to an NFL roster in college football. If you didn't expect that to happen reality isn't your strong suit. The game was a perfect example of lack of experience, team speed and overall talent going up against the exact opposite. We are three years away from knowing if we will be competitive w/Bama in the near future. Don't hold your breath though, no one else in college football is either year in and year out.

Sorry (not sorry) for the rant..... On to USCe.
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^^ Revisit the bold ^^. I would expect, or at least prefer, to utilize the qb who "has far more experience with actual coaching and in-college level games" >> this would, in theory (think TUA), invigorate the ENTIRE team which would, in theory, improved total play which would, in theory, motivate the "25" players expected to be brought in.

Let's start KC >> then bring in JG in the 4th qtr so that he can gain far more experience standing up (rather than on his back).
 
#58
#58
They could have started Chryst all year. We might have the same record and less sacks, but then next year JG would be learning on the job. I think the idea is for JG to take his lumps now and hopefully improve enough to do better in 2019 and 2020. With Chryst there is no 2019 and 2020.
 
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#60
#60
ProudVOLfan said:
Guarantano is just a sophomore so its not like he is leaving anytime soon. Shrout may beat him out but I dont see it
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I thought he’d be the future at QB before the season started that’s why I wanted him to start over KC so bad but I just don’t see it right now
 
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#63
#63
If JG is not the guy, what do we do next year? I believe KC could help win more games this year, but the reason JG will still be the QB is the need for him to get his act together for the future. Pay me now or pay me later.

As far as the OL is concerned, they can't even run block effectively. Is this because the QB doesn't know how to get them lined up and checked to the right play? I am sure all of this goes into the coaching staff's evaluations. I am sure they know much more than us armchair fans know.
 
#64
#64
Those things aren't intangibles. They are very real things that simply have to be learned and that can be taught. It's the academic work/film work of QB'ing and JG has only had a real teacher for a tiny bit.
 
#65
#65
sjt18 said:
Who in particular has been unfair to JG? I don't see anyone hating on him as much as responding to people who hatefully deny the things in this article.
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Who in particular? There are dozens of irrational JG haters on this board. Particularly in the off-season, this was often coupled with an even more irrational "WILL MCBRIDE IS THE QB OF THE FUTURE!" argument, which was why the "JG haters" were particularly insufferable. It's one thing to say JG has flaws; quite another to say "AND THIS GUY WHO COULD ONLY COMPLETE 40% OF HIS PASSES AGAINST WEAK COMPETITION IS THE ANSWER! HE'S GOT MOXIE!"

Sjt, I think your criticisms are well thought out. You're one of the rare 'rational JG criticism' persons here. I don't agree with you 100% of the time, but I probably agree with you at least 85%+ of the time.

But for whatever reason, there is a contingent here that blame JG for absolutely everything wrong with the offense, defense, and probably even special teams. However, the irrational JG hate has now somewhat gravitated over to Helton, which is also silly. The single biggest problem with our offense right now is our O-line's inability to run-block, which has everything to do with Butch Jones and nothing to do with JG or Helton.
 
#66
#66
VolAllen said:
For whatever reason, I have more faith in our offense behind KC. He just seems more confident and seasoned.

Nothing against Jg, as I’ve really pulled for him. But there’s almost a sigh of relief when KC comes in.
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So In the limited amount of game time we’ve seen KC play in, you honestly have more faith in him off of the half of football vs bama, as well as maybe 8 throws in garbage time before that game??
 
#67
#67
TrueVolsGBOInsider said:
So In the limited amount of game time we’ve seen KC play in, you honestly have more faith in him off of the half of football vs bama, as well as maybe 8 throws in garbage time before that game??
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JG seems sporadic. KC looks a bit more poised. Mind you, he did graduate from Stanford and has a couple of years on JG. Oh, and he was 11-2 as a starter...

Again, not knocking JG. But something def seems like it’s missing in his skill set.
 
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#68
#68
Jack Burton said:
They could have started Chryst all year. We might have the same record and less sacks, but then next year JG would be learning on the job. I think the idea is for JG to take his lumps now and hopefully improve enough to do better in 2019 and 2020. With Chryst there is no 2019 and 2020.
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Completely agree. If Chryst were significantly better then he would have been the starter. Maybe he is a little better than JG right now and maybe he isn’t. There is no wide margin of separation between the two so you go with the guy who has 2 years left. Seems pretty simple to me.
 
#70
#70
TrueVolsGBOInsider said:
So In the limited amount of game time we’ve seen KC play in, you honestly have more faith in him off of the half of football vs bama, as well as maybe 8 throws in garbage time before that game??
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Honestly, the second half against Bama wasn’t good. We did nothing once Bama had a chance to adjust. It was the 2 drives in the first half where he looked good. There’s a reason Chryst, who had more experience than JG coming into the season, didn’t get the nod in the first place. If Guarantano is healthy he’s the guy. Yes he has flaws but so does KC.
 
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#71
#71
Pruitt told JG: "if you want to play QB a long time, you need to call your blocks at the line (i.e. recognize defenses) and get rid of the ball on time". He's not doing that consistently.
 
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#72
#72
sjt18 said:
IMO, they see the physical upside of JG and hope he will play into that next level talked about in the article. There are guys here whose heads explode any time you criticize JG.... but this article expresses what I've been arguing since before the season began.
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I thought the article was pretty spot on as far as the criticism. Although, I do think the average fan is a little quick to criticize him for holding the ball. Yeah, it's an issue, but not on every hit he takes. And He's got to get better at identifying fronts and helping out the o-line any way he can.

That being said, I still don't think KC would make us better.
 
#73
#73
He recognizes a blitz very well,he got hit under the chin by one a couple times last saturday.
 
#74
#74
GAVol said:
I thought the article was pretty spot on as far as the criticism. Although, I do think the average fan is a little quick to criticize him for holding the ball. Yeah, it's an issue, but not on every hit he takes. And He's got to get better at identifying fronts and helping out the o-line any way he can.

That being said, I still don't think KC would make us better.
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He's taking hits for various reasons.
Guys just getting beat
Guys missing assignments (UF comes to mind on the fumble)
Missing pre read blitzs where you don't have the blocking scheme adjusted, play changed or are out numbered.
Similar to the previous not understanding the limitations and having that clock in your head running quicker knowing the situations listed above

I think the better the D (specifically DL and pass rush) the more important Chryst ability to pre read and react is. If you are able to keep the QB somewhat clean JG has the higher upside throwing the football. We have played the best D's we are going to face already. Outside UK. JG shouldn't struggle as much going forward.
 
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#75
#75
Peyton has better intangibles. Well duh.

Nowhere does it say KC is better at those things. There is literally not one single word about KC. He did his job and now JG is back.
 
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