Irwin: Guarantano throws a prettier ball than Manning, but doesn't have the intangibles

[jps2194]

Who in particular? There are dozens of irrational JG haters on this board. Particularly in the off-season, this was often coupled with an even more irrational "WILL MCBRIDE IS THE QB OF THE FUTURE!" argument, which was why the "JG haters" were particularly insufferable. It's one thing to say JG has flaws; quite another to say "AND THIS GUY WHO COULD ONLY COMPLETE 40% OF HIS PASSES AGAINST WEAK COMPETITION IS THE ANSWER! HE'S GOT MOXIE!"

Sjt, I think your criticisms are well thought out. You're one of the rare 'rational JG criticism' persons here. I don't agree with you 100% of the time, but I probably agree with you at least 85%+ of the time.

But for whatever reason, there is a contingent here that blame JG for absolutely everything wrong with the offense, defense, and probably even special teams. However, the irrational JG hate has now somewhat gravitated over to Helton, which is also silly. The single biggest problem with our offense right now is our O-line's inability to run-block, which has everything to do with Butch Jones and nothing to do with JG or Helton.

I've been critical of JG in the past (certainly not a hater) for most of the reasons presented in the article. However, I posted a thread a few weeks eating crow because he had played well this year. If he can figure out some of the intangibles, he has the opportunity to be a very good QB.

 

[TrueVolsGBOInsider]

Honestly, the second half against Bama wasn’t good. We did nothing once Bama had a chance to adjust. It was the 2 drives in the first half where he looked good. There’s a reason Chryst, who had more experience than JG coming into the season, didn’t get the nod in the first place. If Guarantano is healthy he’s the guy. Yes he has flaws but so does KC.

My thoughts exactly. Well said sir!

 

[BeecherVol]

Peyton has better intangibles. Well duh.

Nowhere does it say KC is better at those things. There is literally not one single word about KC. He did his job and now JG is back.

JG has the higher ceiling between the 2 but he needs to take some steps above the pads to ever reach the level he's capable of.

 

[k-town_king]

JG has the higher ceiling between the 2 but he needs to take some steps above the pads to ever reach the level he's capable of.

That may be true but my main point was he may not be the best intangibles qb ever but he is still better than KC. People act like the article said something about KC being great in those areas. It doesn't even mention him.

 

[Pepe]

Sorry to start another quarterback thread, but I think his comments are worth reading.



More comments from Irwin below, if you're interested.

Irwin: Guarantano throws a prettier ball than Manning, but doesn’t have the intangibles

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My favorite Peyton Manning quote was when he was talking to someone at the Manning Passing Academy who was bothered by the wobbly passes. "I've probably thrown 600 wobbly touchdown passes in my life". I think the tight spiral is overvalued in football.

 

[BeecherVol]

That may be true but my main point was he may not be the best intangibles qb ever but he is still better than KC. People act like the article said something about KC being great in those areas. It doesn't even mention him.

There's not a ton of difference between the 2 right now based on strengths and weaknesses for what they are playing with. 1 is gonna be here in the future the other isnt.

 

[TrueVolsGBOInsider]

JG seems sporadic. KC looks a bit more poised. Mind you, he did graduate from Stanford and has a couple of years on JG. Oh, and he was 11-2 as a starter...

Again, not knocking JG. But something def seems like it’s missing in his skill set.

I wouldn’t say anything is missing in his skill set, it’s more He hasn’t been all the way developed yet. And we can all say Keller went 11-2 as a starter but we all know how weak the pac 12 is!

 

[Behr]

That may be true but my main point was he may not be the best intangibles qb ever but he is still better than KC. People act like the article said something about KC being great in those areas. It doesn't even mention him.

I didn't get that at all and I read every post in this thread.

 

[BeecherVol]

I didn't get that at all and I read every post in this thread.

For those that don't have a personal preference it's easier to see.

 

[TexasVolfan1]

I wouldn’t say anything is missing in his skill set, it’s more He hasn’t been all the way developed yet. And we can all say Keller went 11-2 as a starter but we all know how weak the pac 12 is!

How long should a QB be given to develop? Especially now a days when kids are coming straight out of high school and lighting it up. Not trying to dog JG just wondering.

 

[VolAllen]

How long should a QB be given to develop? Especially now a days when kids are coming straight out of high school and lighting it up. Not trying to dog JG just wondering.

Especially when they’re already rated the #1 DT QB of their class...

 

[Pepe]

About 90% of JG's flaws are masked if he had a decent (it doesn't even have to be great, just decent) offensive line. I think he shows a lack of awareness about his line when it does take him too long to get the ball out or he doesn't make adjustments at the line. In other words he plays as if he is assuming his offensive line is good and will give him time to throw when that is a shaky assumption. I think Helton could help him out a little bit better too at times and call some plays that don't take as long to develop.

90% of the time that Peyton spent in the film room was not looking at receivers routes and cornerbacks tendencies. It was spent at looking at overall defensive tendencies which included people coming after him personally. Those study habits I'm not sure are something that a coach can really teach. And offensive line cannot be good if they are not told the proper thing to do. They need the coaching from the quarterback.

 

[sjt18]

I thought the article was pretty spot on as far as the criticism. Although, I do think the average fan is a little quick to criticize him for holding the ball. Yeah, it's an issue, but not on every hit he takes. And He's got to get better at identifying fronts and helping out the o-line any way he can.

That being said, I still don't think KC would make us better.

I don't know about that last part either. But what he describes are significant and crippling weaknesses in JG's game. You've always been pretty reasonable though we've kind of been on opposite sides of this. There are some though that just go nuts at any suggestion that JG has these weaknesses or that they're as significant as they are.

He's got to get better if he's going to continue as UT's starter. If not, we have to hope that Shrout or an incoming Fr can come along in both areas.

 

[BloomuVol]

Those were 50/50 balls, just throwing them up for grabs. We have big, physical receivers

Back shoulder throws are not 50/50 balls, learn football.

 

[a vol n tears]

Not against Auburn, although he was hit about every time he threw it.

I am a fan of JG but almost every long ball he threw against Auburn was under thrown. The receivers slowed and the DBs ran by. Don’t know if that was by design or the receivers can out run his arm. How many sacks did KC take? I didn’t see the Ala game.

 

[05_never_again]

90% of the time that Peyton spent in the film room was not looking at receivers routes and cornerbacks tendencies. It was spent at looking at overall defensive tendencies which included people coming after him personally. Those study habits I'm not sure are something that a coach can really teach. And offensive line cannot be good if they are not told the proper thing to do. They need the coaching from the quarterback.

The thing with JG is that he also gets pressure via an offensive lineman simply getting manhandled. There isn't a whole lot he can do about that. It isn't all because he has trouble identifying blitzing players.

The sack/fumble early in the Alabama game was because he didn't pick up a blitz, but check that replay again. Ty Chandler also whiffed on the guy he did pick up.

 

[BloomuVol]

What receiver did he hit in stride down the sideline vs. Auburn? I know he hit Chandler out of the backfield but other than that who did he hit in stride? The 50/50 balls I was referring to were the "back shoulder" throws he threw in double coverage to Callaway and I believe Palmer.

Thank you for displaying your vast knowledge of football. Putting back shoulder in parentheses as if we just made it up.

 

[BloomuVol]

I am a fan of JG but almost every long ball he threw against Auburn was under thrown. The receivers slowed and the DBs ran by. Don’t know if that was by design or the receivers can out run his arm. How many sacks did KC take? I didn’t see the Ala game.

Those are called back shoulder throws, it puts the ball where only your guy can get it, and allows the reciever to turn his head at the last second and still make a play on the ball, they weren't short, they were exactly where his guys needed them to be.

 

[TexasVolfan1]

Those are called back shoulder throws, it puts the ball where only your guy can get it, and allows the reciever to turn his head at the last second and still make a play on the ball, they weren't short, they were exactly where his guys needed them to be.

Some of the throws were back shoulder throws, yes. The throw to Palmer at the end of the game that should have been a TD and the TD throw to Jennings were under thrown. That’s just the two off the top of my head.

 

[NighthawkVol]

Sorry to start another quarterback thread, but I think his comments are worth reading.



More comments from Irwin below, if you're interested.

Irwin: Guarantano throws a prettier ball than Manning, but doesn’t have the intangibles

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Tim Irwin is right.

 

[AndyMizunogolfer]

This was stated by a few of us after the WV game.

 

[DVols33]

The flip side to that is that JG rarely has the time to throw a deep ball. Hopefully, it will all click for JG and he will light it up. I’m starting to wonder if they’re going to split playing time from here on out.

Chryst had the same O line and threw 2 deep balls during TD drives and both times he was under just as much pressure. JG just takes too long to get set, find a receive and deliver the pass.... It's like the long drive in golf .. those winning the long drive tournaments can't make the tour...

 

[BeecherVol]

The thing with JG is that he also gets pressure via an offensive lineman simply getting manhandled. There isn't a whole lot he can do about that. It isn't all because he has trouble identifying blitzing players.

The sack/fumble early in the Alabama game was because he didn't pick up a blitz, but check that replay again. Ty Chandler also whiffed on the guy he did pick up.

Actually the right guard turned the DE loose to pick up the MLB that didn't blitz. That left our RB on a DL and not a blitzing corner or LB.
The extra guy that come was the corner who really should have been Chandler's responsibility but he wasn't moved over by JG to pick him up. By the time the corner made it to the pocket the LG had already committed to a double with the center and didn't see the corner until he was through.

It was 2 bad mismatches that could have been avoided by Chandler being moved over to the proper side blocking a corner and the RG staying with his block. The safety alignment was a dead giveaway that the blitz was coming from that side.

 

[GAVol]

I am a fan of JG but almost every long ball he threw against Auburn was under thrown. The receivers slowed and the DBs ran by. Don’t know if that was by design or the receivers can out run his arm. How many sacks did KC take? I didn’t see the Ala game.

Those balls are thrown that way by design. Callaway and Jennings aren't going to run Go routes and outrun the secondary. The point is to hang the ball in the air and let them be physical and go get it.

 

[a vol n tears]

Those are called back shoulder throws, it puts the ball where only your guy can get it, and allows the reciever to turn his head at the last second and still make a play on the ball, they weren't short, they were exactly where his guys needed them to be.

Thanks. I know a back shoulder throw is normally thrown along the sideline and the team had been practicing them. Don’t usually notice that on deep throws down the middle.