Irwin: Guarantano throws a prettier ball than Manning, but doesn't have the intangibles

[VOL_Lyfe]

Hmm, who is this Peyton fellow that some on here speak well of and some do not. Did he ever make anything of himself?

Couple of years holding a clipboard and straight to the broadcast booth, I heard.

 

[GAVol]

Actually the right guard turned the DE loose to pick up the MLB that didn't blitz. That left our RB on a DL and not a blitzing corner or LB.
The extra guy that come was the corner who really should have been Chandler's responsibility but he wasn't moved over by JG to pick him up. By the time the corner made it to the pocket the LG had already committed to a double with the center and didn't see the corner until he was through.

It was 2 bad mismatches that could have been avoided by Chandler being moved over to the proper side blocking a corner and the RG staying with his block. The safety alignment was a dead giveaway that the blitz was coming from that side.

I don't know if that's on the LG for chasing the stunt and whiffing on the blitzer, the RG for looking inside and turning the DE loose or JG or all 3, but it was craptastic. Worst part of that play was as soon as JG put his foot in the ground, he was about to throw it in rhythm to a wide open WR. Another half second and that's a completion.

 

[Pepe]

Those are called back shoulder throws, it puts the ball where only your guy can get it, and allows the reciever to turn his head at the last second and still make a play on the ball, they weren't short, they were exactly where his guys needed them to be.

The pass to Juwan Jennings would have been better if it had been thrown 8 to 12 in farther, or shorter to make it a true back shoulder pass.

 

[GAVol]

Thanks. I know a back shoulder throw is normally thrown along the sideline and the team had been practicing them. Don’t usually notice that on deep throws down the middle.

The one to Palmer was a little different. Don't know if that was the plan or not, but I agree, you don't see that a lot between the numbers.

 

[BeecherVol]

I don't know if that's on the LG for chasing the stunt and whiffing on the blitzer, the RG for looking inside and turning the DE loose or JG or all 3, but it was craptastic. Worst part of that play was as soon as JG put his foot in the ground, he was about to throw it in rhythm to a wide open WR. Another half second and that's a completion.

To me.
You wouldn't want your RG turning a bigger DE/DT loose to pick up a smaller more athletic LB. While handing your RB a bigger DE/DT running down hill. Im assuming he knew he had help behind him or that really didn't make sense.

The back side has to be accounted for when JG is turning to his right which he did. That ball was never going to the left based off his set up and his help was set up to the right side which he could see.
Chandler should have been moved over to the blind side with the safety lined up where he was. At least then JG can see the guy that's not accounted for if he blitzs. The LB

Yep. Jennings was open on the slant, just need a fraction longer. What could have been a 10 yard gain turned into a 3 yard field for Bama. Gotta get rid of those plays.

 

[GAVol]

To me.
You wouldn't want your RG turning a bigger DE/DT loose to pick up a smaller more athletic LB. While handing your RB a bigger DE/DT running down hill. Im assuming he knew he had help behind him or that really didn't make sense.

The back side has to be accounted for when JG is turning to his right which he did. That ball was never going to the left based off his set up and his help was set up to the right side which he could see.
Chandler should have been moved over to the blind side with the safety lined up where he was. At least then JG can see the guy that's not accounted for if he blitzs. The LB

Yep. Jennings was open on the slant, just need a fraction longer. What could have been a 10 yard gain turned into a 3 yard field for Bama. Gotta get rid of those plays.

The maddening thing is that it wasn't even a hard blitz to protect. It was a 5 man pressure with a couple of loopers. Helton is getting criticized for playcalling, but what the heck do you call next when you can't do the simple stuff?

 

[BeecherVol]

The maddening thing is that it wasn't even a hard blitz to protect. It was a 5 man pressure with a couple of loopers. Helton is getting criticized for playcalling, but what the heck do you call next when you can't do the simple stuff?

Yeah. About the only thing the wasn't clear was whether the LB was coming, but at least he would have been in JGs eyeline.
If everyone is lined up correctly that's a positive play. 1 missed alignment and you have people 2 people in bad spots.

 

[GAVol]

Yeah. About the only thing the wasn't clear was whether the LB was coming, but at least he would have been in JGs eyeline.
If everyone is lined up correctly that's a positive play. 1 missed alignment and you have people 2 people in bad spots.

I think that LB kind of took the play off. He just stood there. Seems like he either needed to pressure or drop into that slant area where the ball was about to go.

 

[BeecherVol]

I think that LB kind of took the play off. He just stood there. Seems like he either needed to pressure or drop into that slant area where the ball was about to go.

He was a blitz decoy pre snap. After that it looked like he was spying JG. Maybe he brain farted and thought it was Dobbs?

 

[rocytop2624]

JG does have a real big problem recognizing a blitz. JG has played/started like what...12 games give or take. He just doesnt have what it takes. The Auburn game was more on our receivers than anything. The article is spot on. KC should play from here on out.

I think JG has more upside and they the coaches was hoping he would start to get it. But I liked how KC looked when he came in he is definitely more experienced.

 

[TrueVolsGBOInsider]

How long should a QB be given to develop? Especially now a days when kids are coming straight out of high school and lighting it up. Not trying to dog JG just wondering.

He needs at least a full season starting under his belt before he can really develop. If he comes out next year after starting a whole year before but it looks the same In year 2 then yes by that time I would probably start looking another direction.

 

[MurphyVol]

Fans who’ve said the same things all year aren’t “haters”. I want to see JG play like he did against Auburn every game - and once he learns from film study and practice enough to overcome these mistakes, hopefully he will.

I’d like to see KC get the start against S.C. maybe he gets our offense going early and if not JG can come off the bench to provide a spark (would be a nice luxury to let him rest the injury a full week though)

Next year our Oline will be better (after a second year of actual S&C and a real OL coach instead of a ballet instructor). I think JG will benefit from actual coaching too and will come into his own next year with more games like he had against Auburn.

Our O line has been 1 year away for a decade. They may be better next year but they won't be good

 

[MikeVol44]

Sorry to start another quarterback thread, but I think his comments are worth reading.



More comments from Irwin below, if you're interested.

Irwin: Guarantano throws a prettier ball than Manning, but doesn’t have the intangibles

.

Thanks, Freak.

Guarantano's liabilities were the same as Josh Dobbs' liabilities....

One of the most frustrating things for me watching Dobbs --when considering his intelligence--was that he NEVER appeared to be able to pick up blitzes and get us out of plays. I don't know if he was not allowed to audible out of the play or not....but he definitely never appeared to do what Irwin says is JG's greatest liability, too.

It's just baffling....

 

[MikeVol44]

well, let's face it we do have a QB situation worth talking about...nothing wrong with that...yes, JG does throw a nice longer ball...yes, he does hold it a second too long...Keller throws a better short ball and gets rid of it faster...Manning had a better O-line to throw behind...short or long...

GO VOLS!

And forgive me for saying so, but you missed the point of the entire article. Manning separated himself from almost every QB to ever play the game by reading defenses and KNOWING where to throw the ball before the snap. JG doesn't... Not trying to be argumentative, but that's the point of the entire article. JG is LOST in his pre-snap reads....JG doesn't throw a better long ball than Manning--he throws a tighter spiral--i.e., his ball looks prettier in flight.

 

[Cartervol]

It's a valid criticism of JG (unlike most of the ones we typically see here at VN). JG is still too slow to throw the ball sometimes and still struggles at times to read the defense. He's improved this season, though, and the flip-side is that he's absolutely one of the most accurate pure passers in all of college football.

Chryst and JG are pretty even overall IMO, with Chryst being better at reading defenses and JG being better at throwing very accurate deep passes. The problem with Chryst over JG isn't even really a problem with Chryst so much as it's a problem with our O-line.

Our O-line can not run block. We're averaging like 1-2 yards per carry right now against quality defenses. You can't win games like that.

JG gives us a better shot at winning precisely because what you saw against Auburn; he can throw the deep ball and spread the defense. With JG, it at least improves the odds for our run game. Against Chryst, it becomes easier for defenses to simply shut down the run. If we had Stanford's offensive line, it would be a different story, but we don't. Therefore, I think JG gives us a better shot at winning, and we saw that versus Auburn.

But it's absolutely true that JG needs to read defenses better to be elite. It's also true that he had crappy QB coaching for most of his early career here, so he might continue to improve rapidly.

I agree.. He has the ability to stretch a defense. He just takes a lot of hits and the game seems to fast at times for him..

 

[lexkyvol]

Uh, no they were certainly not 50 50 balls.

its yet another way of refusing to give him credit for anything.....and i literally mean anything. the kid, from some, will never get any credit ever!

 

[LittleVol]

What is said here is the plain and simple answer that many of us have been trying to say for sometime. For us dumbas-es, "he just doesn't have football smarts." Being tough is not helping with what happens to him. If he knew the things Irwin speaks of, he wouldn't have to show how tough he is on every play. The ball would be out of his hands on a pass or to a back, not him trying to decide what to do until he gets hammered.

Thank you!!!

It's ridiculous how people keep talking about how "tuff" he is! Most QBs wouldn't have their toughness tested as much as him. Shoot, it's not like he's running for 1st downs and getting hit.

He's a good kid who's trying to be a leader....but he simply is missing quite a bit to become a good QB. And he shouldn't be the starter!

I've been saying it all season. And all we should really want is for the TEAM to win!

Had Jarret not got hurt....we would have lost 72-7...or worse.

 

[cHiZzLeVOL]

Those were 50/50 balls, just throwing them up for grabs. We have big, physical receivers

Correct. I don’t know if I’ve seen JG hit a guy in actual stride all year on a deep ball..... maybe once?

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

His biggest problem.will be the inabilty to read a defense

He read Auburns fine.

 

[cHiZzLeVOL]

It's a valid criticism of JG (unlike most of the ones we typically see here at VN). JG is still too slow to throw the ball sometimes and still struggles at times to read the defense. He's improved this season, though, and the flip-side is that he's absolutely one of the most accurate pure passers in all of college football.

Chryst and JG are pretty even overall IMO, with Chryst being better at reading defenses and JG being better at throwing very accurate deep passes. The problem with Chryst over JG isn't even really a problem with Chryst so much as it's a problem with our O-line.

Our O-line can not run block. We're averaging like 1-2 yards per carry right now against quality defenses. You can't win games like that.

JG gives us a better shot at winning precisely because what you saw against Auburn; he can throw the deep ball and spread the defense. With JG, it at least improves the odds for our run game. Against Chryst, it becomes easier for defenses to simply shut down the run. If we had Stanford's offensive line, it would be a different story, but we don't. Therefore, I think JG gives us a better shot at winning, and we saw that versus Auburn.

But it's absolutely true that JG needs to read defenses better to be elite. It's also true that he had crappy QB coaching for most of his early career here, so he might continue to improve rapidly.

So your opinion is that since we can’t run the ball JG is our best threat because he has a better long ball??

JG can’t read a defense and he does have a slow delivery and he does stare down receivers. That being said he is talented. However, with the amount of time it takes him to throw, if a defense blitzes we are pretty much screwed unless the O-line is perfect. JGs inability to read a defense allows that defense to blitz on almost every play to include run plays, because they are not afraid of him throwing deep, because the probability of him completing one before they get to him is lower then the probability of him throwing one that will give up a touchdown. See his TD stats / they aren’t impressive.

There was always a thing I was told, that if you can pass the ball, you open up the run game and vice versa if you can run the ball you open up the run game.

Chryst by those words is the best option because he makes extra time (even with a bad line) to be able to throw the ball (through reading a defense and quick release) and the crap about Chryst not being able to throw deep is just that, crap. (See Chryst’s deep throw to Chandler “twice”)

With Chryst able to deliver the ball in adverse situations a defense can’t just blitz the whole time because they have to be worried about him hitting an open receiver downfield. (Chryst also distributes the ball more) This in turn opens up the run game.

 

[cHiZzLeVOL]

He read Auburns fine.

Incorrect. Go back to that game and he got hit almost every single throw.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

well, let's face it we do have a QB situation worth talking about...nothing wrong with that...yes, JG does throw a nice longer ball...yes, he does hold it a second too long...Keller throws a better short ball and gets rid of it faster...Manning had a better O-line to throw behind...short or long...

GO VOLS!

It is absolutely unfair to even mention any UT QB next to Peyton Manning. QBs like Manning come along very rarely. Manning had much better passing skills than any UT QB in modern memory. But he also had better coaching and much, much better teams around him.

JG has his problems. Exactly what they are? I dont really know and neither do any of us fans. Some will pretend to know but they dont. One thing I do know is we are not at practice and see what the coaches see.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

Incorrect. Go back to that game and he got hit almost every single throw.

Then why did he play the entire game?

 

[GAVol]

I'll concede that JG needs to get better at getting out of bad plays and changing protections. But if he's so bad at reading defenses and staring down receivers, why is he completing passes at 60%+, has a good YPA and only has 2 picks?

 

[cHiZzLeVOL]

Then why did he play the entire game?

Because he is the starter? That doesn’t just make him magically read defenses though. Although he did make good throws in the Auburn game he was statuesque in doing so. (Which is the reason he got hit so much)