Is America at war with islam?

#78
#78
milohimself said:
Bull****. It's petty and sinks to the level of extremists who would do the same.
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Wrong. It sinks to the level of extremist that we did what we did. If what we are told about moderates is ture and they believe what they say, the only people happy with what we did would be the extremists. They are, afterall, the only ones that consider him a true Muslim.
 
#79
#79
rjd970 said:
Would really like to know why you think this is true.

Recent history has brightly illuminated us to the fact that Muslims, moderate and extremist alike, are more concerned with perceived slights against their faith then they are about the ridiculous actions of those who seek retribution for perceived disrespect.
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I am the son of a Tennessean lady and an Arab father. I live in the middle east. I know how people feel around this part of thw world.
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#80
#80
rjd970 said:
All these McVeigh, Loughner, serial killers, mass murders, etc...minus maybe a few exceptions that I can't think of right off hand (and how I can name Islamic mass murders and terrorists rather easily) never did it in the name of Christianity.

Bin Laden was not a true moderate Muslim. Period. Nobody will argue that. So why aren't the moderates up in arms that this guy, who killed in the name of the faith they hold dear and practice responsibly, got last burial rights in that tradition?
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McVeigh was the fall guy for an Iraqi intelligence opperation.

There is no moderate muslim according to the PM of Turkey, 'islam is islam.'





rjd970 said:
Just pointing out hypocrisy that nobody seems to want to acknowldege.
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You need to look into the mirror to see hypocrisy.



MaehlMan said:
Go do some research on Christian groups in India, Uganda, etc. that kill in the name of Christianity.

I'm a white Christian, but I'm not oblivious to the facts.
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Would you care to document of which what you speak?

You have to be absolutly nuts to make such a statement!



MaehlMan said:
No, and I'm sure that most rational Muslims don't find al-Qaeda to be a true representation of theirs.

Perhaps I should have said in the name of "Christianity."
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From whence do you come up which such crapppola?/


rjd970 said:
So if you were a rational Muslim, would you have a problem with him just being dumped overboard, instead of cleaned, wrapped in a white sheet, and buried at see while Koranic verses were read?
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There is no such thing as a 'rational muslim' their whole screed is irrational.
 
#81
#81
rjd970 said:
Wrong. It sinks to the level of extremist that we did what we did. If what we are told about moderates is ture and they believe what they say, the only people happy with what we did would be the extremists. They are, afterall, the only ones that consider him a true Muslim.
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What kind of backwards logic is this? Aside from that, do you realize you are justifying desecration of a corpse? Aside from that even, why give extremists the ammo?

This whole thing smacks of petty vengeance. It was over the moment he took his last breath.
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#82
#82
BoseefusTheVol said:
I am the son of a Tennessean lady and an Arab father. I live in the middle east. I know how people feel around this part of thw world.
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How many Muslims in that part of the world were more upset over the Danish cartoons themself than they were of the emabassy burnings?

And let me state my religious bona fides up front, I'm atheist. But I could post a picture of a gay Jesus strung up on a burning cross in the paper tomorrow, and I bet there wouldn't be a single embassy burning anywhere in the world. Islam has a problem, and the best way to fix it is to take opportunities like this and not only be apathetic about the way this was handled, but demand that this monster wasn't a Muslim and shouldn't be treated as such.
 
#83
#83
pee-wee.jpg


Welcome to gsvol fantasy land!
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#84
#84
milohimself said:
What kind of backwards logic is this? Aside from that, do you realize you are justifying desecration of a corpse? Aside from that even, why give extremists the ammo?

This whole thing smacks of petty vengeance. It was over the moment he took his last breath.
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Who said anything about desecration? I am just saying don't give him a proper Muslim burial. Dump him overboard and be done with it.

And if not giving him the proper burial causes more extemists to come out and play, even better. I'm sure our military would be just fine with that.
 
#85
#85
milohimself said:
What kind of backwards logic is this? Aside from that, do you realize you are justifying desecration of a corpse? Aside from that even, why give extremists the ammo?

This whole thing smacks of petty vengeance. It was over the moment he took his last breath.
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And may I just say, this is rich. Moderates disavow this guy, the only ones who consider him a proper Muslim is the crazies. And my logic is backwards for saying we shouldn't have given him a proper Muslim burial? Haha.
 
#86
#86
rjd970 said:
How many Muslims in that part of the world were more upset over the Danish cartoons themself than they were of the emabassy burnings?

And let me state my religious bona fides up front, I'm atheist. But I could post a picture of a gay Jesus strung up on a burning cross in the paper tomorrow, and I bet there wouldn't be a single embassy burning anywhere in the world. Islam has a problem, and the best way to fix it is to take opportunities like this and not only be apathetic about the way this was handled, but demand that this monster wasn't a Muslim and shouldn't be treated as such.
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And I can guarantee that if you did that, Arab Christians would be upset too and would go burn the Danish embassy...freedom of expression doesn't include insulting prophets in this part of the world... Not saying it is right or wrong, its just the way it is.
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#87
#87
rjd970 said:
Who said anything about desecration? I am just saying don't give him a proper Muslim burial. Dump him overboard and be done with it.

And if not giving him the proper burial causes more extemists to come out and play, even better. I'm sure our military would be just fine with that.
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If you're atheist, why even worry about some silly burial right before dumping the guy off? It's not like he'll magically spring back to life and hatch more plots.

There's nothing reasonable behind desecration of a corpse other than pettiness. He's already dead and saying there is anything else to it is sinking to the level of Islamic extremists who would do the same, and there is no basis to say otherwise.
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#88
#88
BoseefusTheVol said:
And I can guarantee that if you did that, Arab Christians would be upset too and would go burn the Danish embassy...freedom of expression doesn't include insulting prophets in this part of the world... Not saying it is right or wrong, its just the way it is.
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What is the general consensus of how the population over there feels about Bin Laden and his death?
 
#89
#89
BoseefusTheVol said:
And I can guarantee that if you did that, Arab Christians would be upset too and would go burn the Danish embassy...freedom of expression doesn't include insulting prophets in this part of the world... Not saying it is right or wrong, its just the way it is.Posted via VolNation Mobile
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It should. The vast majority of Christians in this country loathe the Westboro morons, but nobody is using violence of any sort to stop them.

If there were such widespread riots about a bunch of newspaper cartoons, then it would be absolutely reasonable to assume a healthy % of moderate, good muslims, would have taken it as a slight against their faith had we just snatched his body and dumped it overboard.
 
#90
#90
rjd970 said:
And may I just say, this is rich. Moderates disavow this guy, the only ones who consider him a proper Muslim is the crazies. And my logic is backwards for saying we shouldn't have given him a proper Muslim burial? Haha.
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I can't even wrap my brain around where you're coming from. You're petitionig for the desecration of an inanimate object that once housed a deranged soul.... But now it's just an inanimate object.
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#91
#91
milohimself said:
If you're atheist, why even worry about some silly burial right before dumping the guy off? It's not like he'll magically spring back to life and hatch more plots.

There's nothing reasonable behind desecration of a corpse other than pettiness. He's already dead and saying there is anything else to it is sinking to the level of Islamic extremists who would do the same, and there is no basis to say otherwise.
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Milo, your going to have to explain to me how dumping a body overboard without any fanfair is "desecration".

I couldn't care less about the burial ritual, I am pointing out the hypocrisy of the whole situation.
 
#92
#92
milohimself said:
I can't even wrap my brain around where you're coming from. You're petitionig for the desecration of an inanimate object that once housed a deranged soul.... But now it's just an inanimate object.
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If it makes you feel better to say this, go ahead.

You're welcome over here in gsvol fantasy land anytime.
 
#93
#93
Re: Islam and violence, if Islam were the reason, all prominently Islamic states would be violent. But this is not at all the case. The one absolutely commonality among all states with this level of violence is poor socio-economic indicators.
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#95
#95
hmanvolfan said:
What is the general consensus of how the population over there feels about Bin Laden and his death?
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Mainly it is a feeling of "good riddance". Now, there are some nut jobs who think otherwise, but they are few and far between.
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#96
#96
rjd970 said:
It should. The vast majority of Christians in this country loathe the Westboro morons, but nobody is using violence of any sort to stop them.

If there were such widespread riots about a bunch of newspaper cartoons, then it would be absolutely reasonable to assume a healthy % of moderate, good muslims, would have taken it as a slight against their faith had we just snatched his body and dumped it overboard.
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Nope, they wouldn't have taken it as a slight. And most think it was brilliant dumping him at sea so he would never have a shrine for the nutjobs.
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#97
#97
milohimself said:
The gsvol thing was directed at gsvol.
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:hi:

I'm actually (kind of) on the same page with him here, and he still managed to try and insult me by telling me I should "look in the mirror" with my hypocrisy. He is too crazy to even realize he has an ally of sorts in his midst.
 
#98
#98
rjd970 said:
Milo, your going to have to explain to me how dumping a body overboard without any fanfair is "desecration".

I couldn't care less about the burial ritual, I am pointing out the hypocrisy of the whole situation.
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Why worry about it if it is hypocrisy? It amounts to some extra words said before a guy was dumped into the ocean anyway.

I've had a chance to ask a number of my muslim friends, and they see it the same way most of us Christians see the westboro baptists. We don't say they arent Christian, we vehemently disagree with the way they interpret the bible.

There have been a number of mass murderers through history by self proclaimed Christians, and I have no problem with them receiving proper burial rites.
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#99
#99
BoseefusTheVol said:
Nope, they wouldn't have taken it as a slight. And most think it was brilliant dumping him at sea so he would never have a shrine for the nutjobs.
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After what Geert Wilders has had to go through with the release of his film "Fitna" and Ayaan Hirsi Ali with her outspoken criticism of Islam, both of whom still live under constant threat of Muslim retaliation, and not to mention the Danish cartoon fiasco, I find your position hard to believe.

I see the whole burial thing as an olive branch to the extremists, who won't accept it anyway. It is also taboo to criticize religion in mainstream media, I understand that (even though I don't agree with it) but it just seems especially taboo to criticize Islam.
 
#100
#100
rjd970 said:
After what Geert Wilders has had to go through with the release of his film "Fitna" and Ayaan Hirsi Ali with her outspoken criticism of Islam, both of whom still live under constant threat of Muslim retaliation, and not to mention the Danish cartoon fiasco, I find your position hard to believe.

I see the whole burial thing as an olive branch to the extremists, who won't accept it anyway. It is also taboo to criticize religion in mainstream media, I understand that (even though I don't agree with it) but it just seems especially taboo to criticize Islam.
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I agree with your first paragraph 100%... Unfortunately there are a lot of wackos who think differently and its unfortunate that they have to live that way.

As for the burial thing. To me it just proves that we are more dignified than the extremists. Nothing more and nothing less.
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