Is it Hooker or the "system"?

#126
#126
You’re going to see a lot of blue moons in Knoxville. This SYSTEM amps up the available TALENT. Tillman was an instant talent who had done nothing in the four previous seasons on campus. Hyatt showed some limited explosion in his first season and regressed in his first season in this SYSTEM. Coaching and development (and his own hard work) helped him display his sheer TALENT this season. Hooker isn’t doing all this with smoke and mirrors. His arm, legs and decision making is putting the stats on the board along with the wins. All that didn’t translate in what he was running at his previous stop.
 
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#129
#129
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#130
#130
VolArmy74 said:
Hooker is up to #8 in this mock draft and it was before he absolutely destroyed Alabama. I'll be surprised if Young's size doesn't send him down draft boards. He's listed at 6'0 and 194 but most seem to think he's about 5'10.

2023 NFL Mock Draft: Hendon Hooker Enters the First Round
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Hooker deserves it. He is definitely in the mold of what a lot of teams want these days -- fast decision making, responds well to being coached up to the upcoming defense, and a run threat.
 
#131
#131
lawgator1 said:
I've had a few back and forths on the board over the last couple of days about whether UT's success is due, entirely or primarily, to Hooker or to "the system" put in place by Huepel & Co. There seem to be two schools of thought: those that want Hooker to win the Heisman say its his mostly if not entirely his ability, while those that hope that this is a long term trend for success for UT over the long haul are hoping its the system and the coaching.

To me it is a bit of both, but I am firmly in the camp that Hooker is a special, once in a blue moon type of talent. I think future teams will get coached differently to match their particular talents. But right now, this season, it is Hooker that gets the credit, imo.
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In my mind it is mostly the system. Hooker no doubt runs the offense better than Milton but put Hooker back at Virginia Tech and he is a very good qb who understands how to take care of the ball. but almost certainly wouldnt be a Heiasman candidate
 
#132
#132
zjcvols said:
Usually that’s a valid point but Young is different. This isn’t Mac Jones/Tua throwing to Devonta Smith, Jaylen Waddle, Henry Ruggs, John Metchie, etc. The stuff Bryce Young does is completely different. His ability to be accurate and avoid pressure is the best I’ve ever seen in college. He’s like Chris Paul 2008. Completely in control, never makes a mistake and always make the right read. Tennessee got pressure and hit him all night and it didn’t matter, he still picked us apart.
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I partially agree with you on this point. None of this year's cadre of Alabama's receivers are being mentioned in the same revered tones as recent 'bama greats at that position. I am speaking, however, about the total package of surrounding cast: defense, offensive line, running backs, and receivers. Consequently, few Alabama quarterbacks are ever tested as severely as we tested Bryce Young.
 
#134
#134
The system works - CJH has proven it both at UT and the other programs he's been at. It takes a certain type of QB and HH is the perfect fit. I don't think HH is alone in being the perfect fit so I expect other QBs could have strong success in the system. HH takes it over the top via his smarts, calmness, maturity and natural gifts.

The Heisman is rarely about the best (talent) player but about the best winner. So HH could win the Heisman without it being an indication the system is reliant on him.

Kinda along the lines of ZJC; Bryce Young is probably more Mahommes than HH is. His ability to scramble, improvise and drop an absolute dime is pretty crazy.
 
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#135
#135
butchna said:
You’re going to see a lot of blue moons in Knoxville. This SYSTEM amps up the available TALENT. Tillman was an instant talent who had done nothing in the four previous seasons on campus. Hyatt showed some limited explosion in his first season and regressed in his first season in this SYSTEM. Coaching and development (and his own hard work) helped him display his sheer TALENT this season. Hooker isn’t doing all this with smoke and mirrors. His arm, legs and decision making is putting the stats on the board along with the wins. All that didn’t translate in what he was running at his previous stop.
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Yes, the dramatic, indeed, explosive improvement of just Tillman and Hyatt point directly to excellent coaching and player development, not to mention a scheme that allows them to maximize their onfield potential.
 
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#137
#137
butchna said:
Didn’t hurt Russell Wilson or Kyler Murray.
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It definitely hurt Wilson's draft slot. He was picked 75th overall even though his college numbers were sterling. Murray is the very rare exception to be his size and drafted at #1 overall but that was also due to his incredible running ability, he had over 1000 yards rushing his last year at Oklahoma. In NFL history there are something like 3 successful QBs ever who were shorter than 6 feet tall.

Young may join the crowd but NFL teams are usually set in their ways regarding what they want from a QB and that can cause unexpected falls on draft day. If he goes to the combine and is a legitimate 6 feet, he should be okay, even though he's also super skinny, but if he measures out 5'10 or less, as many have suggested, I could see him falling down draft boards. Especially so since Young isn't a runner and only has 127 yards rushing in his entire career to date.
 
#138
#138
I wouldn't be surprised if we don’t start seeing more teams and eventually maybe NFL teams run Heupel's offense or try and copy it with putting the wide receivers out in the splits. I am sure I saw Bama do it once against us. It's a smart offense.
 
#139
#139
lawgator1 said:
I've had a few back and forths on the board over the last couple of days about whether UT's success is due, entirely or primarily, to Hooker or to "the system" put in place by Huepel & Co. There seem to be two schools of thought: those that want Hooker to win the Heisman say its his mostly if not entirely his ability, while those that hope that this is a long term trend for success for UT over the long haul are hoping its the system and the coaching.

To me it is a bit of both, but I am firmly in the camp that Hooker is a special, once in a blue moon type of talent. I think future teams will get coached differently to match their particular talents. But right now, this season, it is Hooker that gets the credit, imo.
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Like Danny Wuerffel, it is combination. Just because Hendon plays in one system vice another does not mean he should be handicapped with a label and discounted.
 
#140
#140
volinbham said:
The system works - CJH has proven it both at UT and the other programs he's been at. It takes a certain type of QB and HH is the perfect fit. I don't think HH is alone in being the perfect fit so I expect other QBs could have strong success in the system. HH takes it over the top via his smarts, calmness, maturity and natural gifts.

The Heisman is rarely about the best (talent) player but about the best winner. So HH could win the Heisman without it being an indication the system is reliant on him.

Kinda along the lines of ZJC; Bryce Young is probably more Mahommes than HH is. His ability to scramble, improvise and drop an absolute dime is pretty crazy.
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Sometimes, the Heisman isn't about either. For Paul Hornung to win the award on an embarrassingly bad 2-8 Notre Dame team, one that was eviscerated by Michigan State (47-14) and Oklahoma (40-0) at home, as well as Navy (33-7) and Iowa (48-8) on the road, was an incomprehensible miscarriage of justice.
 
#141
#141
GAVol said:
That one is easy. It was night and day trying to move the ball in that finesse offense with and without Dobbs.
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I’d argue that was it was overall talent too. Hurd/Kamara/Malone/Jennings, pretty decent OL…Butch sucked as a coach but we out-talented a lot of teams in 15-16 with offense. In 2017 when the offensive talent dropped, we saw the results.

Before 2021, only two players on offense was projected to be an eventual NFL draft picks were Darnell Wright and maybe Jerome Carvin. There’s talent, but it’s been coached up thanks to this staff.
 
#142
#142
lawgator1 said:
I've had a few back and forths on the board over the last couple of days about whether UT's success is due, entirely or primarily, to Hooker or to "the system" put in place by Huepel & Co. There seem to be two schools of thought: those that want Hooker to win the Heisman say its his mostly if not entirely his ability, while those that hope that this is a long term trend for success for UT over the long haul are hoping its the system and the coaching.

To me it is a bit of both, but I am firmly in the camp that Hooker is a special, once in a blue moon type of talent. I think future teams will get coached differently to match their particular talents. But right now, this season, it is Hooker that gets the credit, imo.
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It is both. Hooker is very talented. However, he is by no stretch a "once in a blue moon type of talent". That's pure wishful thinking on your part. The intangible part? We will see. He's a very high character leader on the field. He commands the O and the players around him in a way not seen on Rocky Top since probably Clausen.

During the 90's UF had a run. Spurrier had a great system and he manned it with one great QB after another. UT is setting up to do something similar. If Milton can control his energy, UT might be BETTER next fall throwing the ball. Hooker is elite running the O. Milton may not be able to do that as well as Hooker. But check out his season highlights. UT is loading up on speed to get behind D's and Milton can throw it behind any D. Then UT will have a QB battle between Jackson, Nico, and whoever they pull in the 24 class. Should be epic to decide who gets to run an O largely recruited and developed by Heupel and his staff. Think about all the ways it can get better if UT adds some truly elite OLs and an elite RB or two.
 
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#143
#143
The system is great but the system is asking Hooker to make some very difficult passes and he continues to make them and on time. Both are very good.

Not sure why any recruit who plays on the offensive side of the ball wouldn't want to play in this system. It allows talented players to use their talents to the fullest.
 
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#144
#144
First offensive coaching staff since Cutcliffe that really plays to their players strengths.

Hooker is a great dual threat QB who looks to pass first and the staff is playing to his strength with the deep ball more.

Fuente had Hooker running more even though they had Khalil Herbert who is tearing it up with the Bears.
 
#148
#148
VolArmy74 said:
Hooker is up to #8 in this mock draft and it was before he absolutely destroyed Alabama. I'll be surprised if Young's size doesn't send him down draft boards. He's listed at 6'0 and 194 but most seem to think he's about 5'10.

2023 NFL Mock Draft: Hendon Hooker Enters the First Round
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Tua is 6'1
Hurts is 6'1
Murray is 5'11
Lamar Jackson is 6'2
Malik Willis is 6'1
Zack Wilson is 6'2
Mahomes is 6'2
Russell Wilson is 6'

All but Willis are starters in the NFL and they are all athletic. You don't have to be tall as long as you are athletic.
 
#149
#149
zjcvols said:
I’d argue that was it was overall talent too. Hurd/Kamara/Malone/Jennings, pretty decent OL…Butch sucked as a coach but we out-talented a lot of teams in 15-16 with offense. In 2017 when the offensive talent dropped, we saw the results.

Before 2021, only two players on offense was projected to be an eventual NFL draft picks were Darnell Wright and maybe Jerome Carvin. There’s talent, but it’s been coached up thanks to this staff.
Click to expand...
Can't remember the exact year, but I'll never forget the pro day we held where the fastest 40 time was like 4.6 by a Punter.
 
#150
#150
Players have to buy in, and put in the effort. The teams mentality and competitive nature are byproducts of the coaching. Would Hooker ever be in the heisman conversation at VT... I'm going with no. Has our talent level made a giant jump foreword... no. Are we breaking school records left and right with the same players that went 3-7 in 2020... mostly(-30). Players have bought in, and I believe outworked everyone this past offseason and deserve credit for that.

But the answer to your question is coaching.
 
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