Is Obama really a socialist?

#26
#26
blamie said:
I think I have a much better understanding of it now...

Obama isn't a socialist per se....but he favors wealth redistribution in the form of welfare much more than McCain...

What it comes down to is that I kind of understood some were calling him a socialist because of his stance on welfare but I didn't understand why because welfare has been around for a long time...

So what you all are saying is that the "socialist" moniker that is being placed on Obama is due to the fact that he intends on beefing up the welfare system much more than any president before him?
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What he really wants to do is take money from the wealthiest 5% and give to those that pay little or no taxes. It's not welfare it is income redistribution.

Because of Obama's social policies and what we can gather based upon what he has said there is good reason to believe that he could very well expand on entitlement programs as well.
 
#27
#27
Sabanocchio said:
Blamie, McCain was asked just yesterday if he thought Obama was a socialist and he said no. Unfortunately those that follow him will grab on to anything that floats and ride it through the rapids.

Obama is being accused of socialism because he wants to roll back tax cuts on the wealthiest 5% of the nation. Which will in all likelyhood never happen IMO. Raising taxes in an economic crisis is political suicide, nevertheless, that's what he says he is going to do. Anyone who thinks that is socialism should look at the EIC, Social Security ect. ect. and to which party started many of those systems.

Fact is, McCain and his camp know Obama isn't a socialist, they are simply in desperation mode and will attempt just about anything to try and get him elected. Too little. Too late.
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It would be the end of McCain's hopes if he came out directly and accused Obama of being a socialist.

McCain is probably like most Americans (those who don't support Obama at least) that believe he has a socialist agenda or policies on certain issues. I believe some of his statements have made that more than clear. It would be disingenuous to claim otherwise.
 
#28
#28
KB5252 said:
What he really wants to do is take money from the wealthiest 5% and give to those that pay little or no taxes. It's not welfare it is income redistribution.

Because of Obama's social policies and what we can gather based upon what he has said there is good reason to believe that he could very well expand on entitlement programs as well.
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Ah...okay...so his proposed income redistribution isn't neccesarily in the form of welfare....he has plans of giving the tax dollars of higher earners to those who may not even have jobs...

Thats sucks...is that likely to happen or do you think it's a talking point to get the votes of the middle and lower class who have otherwise been told that he is an elitist?
 
#29
#29
blamie said:
Ah...okay...so his proposed income redistribution isn't neccesarily in the form of welfare....he has plans of giving the tax dollars of higher earners to those who may not even have jobs...

Thats sucks...is that likely to happen or do you think it's a talking point to get the votes of the middle and lower class who have otherwise been told that he is an elitist?
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Not exactly sure, politicians will say what they need to in order to get elected.

From some of the other things he has stated he seems to really believe this is what a president should be doing.
 
#30
#30
blamie said:
I think I have a much better understanding of it now...

Obama isn't a socialist per se....but he favors wealth redistribution in the form of welfare much more than McCain...

What it comes down to is that I kind of understood some were calling him a socialist because of his stance on welfare but I didn't understand why because welfare has been around for a long time...

So what you all are saying is that the "socialist" moniker that is being placed on Obama is due to the fact that he intends on beefing up the welfare system much more than any president before him?
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BHO absolutely embraces the idea of socialism. I would be hard pressed to find any premier, aside from Chavez, of any western, civilized nation who is pushing a more socialist agenda.
 
#31
#31
therealUT said:
BHO absolutely embraces the idea of socialism. I would be hard pressed to find any premier, aside from Chavez, of any western, civilized nation who is pushing a more socialist agenda.
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Thats the thing though...any interview I've ever seen where he is asked if he is a socialist he absolutely repudiates it....he talks as if it's absurd to suggest it of him...so I guess I can see why alot of people think he's a liar when he has socialistic ideals but then acts as if he doesn't

I also understand why so many on here cite a Democratic Congress and a Democratic President as such a bad thing....if you believe that Obama's policies are truly socialistic then pairing him with a partisan Congress could lead to some very interesting(or disturbing) legislation being passed
 
#32
#32
a better question is why would anyone think he ISN'T a socialist? Spreading the weath, income redistribution, socialized healthcare, paying people who don't work, taxing the rich, etc etc etc are the very definitions of socialism. and this is what he is saying NOW. imagine the crap he will pass with a democratic congress. scary times ahead.
 
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#33
#33
blamie said:
I'm afraid I don't understand why so many are calling him that....

Is it because he wants to increase taxes on the rich?

And if increasing taxes on one group while decreasing them for another is socialism then couldn't every tax plan ever proposed by any presidential candidate be considered as such?

I'm not being a smarta** or asking retorical questions here...I promise....I'm looking for a serious explanation to why it has become popular to call him not only a socialist but also a Marxist

Please...I would appreciate it if those of you who normally take any opportunity you get to tee off on Obama could just refrain from that...

If you don't have an meaningful explanation to this please don't post here...this could honestly effect my vote
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I don't know that I can offer you any info that is unique from that of others. I do, however, want to applaud your sincerety and desire to understand the issues.
 
#34
#34
You McCain supporters are so desperate it's funny.

Blamie, please do yourself a favor and don't get ANY election advice from this site, it's overrun with Neocons. Do your own research and come to your own conclusion. That's what I did.
 
#35
#35
Sabanocchio said:
You McCain supporters are so desperate it's funny.

Blamie, please do yourself a favor and don't get ANY election advice from this site, it's overrun with Neocons. Do your own research and come to your own conclusion. That's what I did.
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Please explain how I am a neocon. Or better yet just define what a neocon is!

If you look at Obama's statements over the past four months especially and cannot see how many would interpret it as socialist you are being disingenuous.

For the record I think he will most likely win, as most do. I am not a huge fan of McCain either. Both these candidates are not ideal for the country at this time. Obama supporters feel he is the right man at the right time but those that know better understand a truly great candidate has not surfaced since Clinton, and the only reason he was a good president is because he was kept in check by repubs in the majority.
 
#36
#36
Sabanocchio said:
You McCain supporters are so desperate it's funny.

Blamie, please do yourself a favor and don't get ANY election advice from this site, it's overrun with Neocons. Do your own research and come to your own conclusion. That's what I did.
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Most of us are not desperate.

We're scared to death of Barack Hussein Obama becoming our next president.
 
#37
#37
blamie said:
I'm afraid I don't understand why so many are calling him that....

Is it because he wants to increase taxes on the rich?

And if increasing taxes on one group while decreasing them for another is socialism then couldn't every tax plan ever proposed by any presidential candidate be considered as such?

I'm not being a smarta** or asking retorical questions here...I promise....I'm looking for a serious explanation to why it has become popular to call him not only a socialist but also a Marxist

Please...I would appreciate it if those of you who normally take any opportunity you get to tee off on Obama could just refrain from that...

If you don't have an meaningful explanation to this please don't post here...this could honestly effect my vote
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Read This!


its a PDF from the Urban Institute/Brookings Institution Tax Policy Center (a left leaning organization) on the differences between the candidates tax policies

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/UploadedPDF/411781_candidates_october.pdf

if you thought Jimmy Carters policies were great for the economy, then you will love Obamas
 
#38
#38
blamie said:
BPV...what in your opinion are the main things Obama plans to do that you consider forms of socialism?
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Post # 11 was my main things.

1). Supreme Court driven economic justice.

2). Bottom Up economics because we all do well when those at the bottom are doing well. That means disbursement checks to the bottom, since they pay no current taxes.

3). Further taxing the top 5%, who already pay the greatest percentage of income to the tax man, even if called a rollback, is wealth redistribution when checks are going to be written to those not currently remitting taxes.

4). Universal Healthcare is not only a bad idea, but it's as socialist as one can possible be regarding healthcare.

5) He has been a hardcore proponent of welfare programs and other gov't run help programs for his entire career. In fact, the vast majority of his career has been focused upon gov't financial intervention to "help" those "less fortunate," which is nothing but exacerbation of the problems that FDR started 70 years ago. Those policies will only serve to accelerate the growth of our welfare populations, such that the 4th and 5th generations will be enormous and essentially wards of the state.
 
#40
#40
rjd970 said:
I would start by looking at guys like Donald Rumsfield, Dick Cheney, and Paul Wolfowitz.
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and then point out the fact that their neocon rep is steeped purely in their hawkish nature and has nothing to do with the primarily economic argument being presented here.
 
#41
#41
Sabanocchio said:
You McCain supporters are so desperate it's funny.

Blamie, please do yourself a favor and don't get ANY election advice from this site, it's overrun with Neocons. Do your own research and come to your own conclusion. That's what I did.
Click to expand...

Blamie, start with this post when not taking any advice.
 
#43
#43
I have an idea. Everyone who thinks their taxes are too low, why don't you just volunteer to pay more? For those of us who think our taxes are too high, tell you what, if you guys pay more, I'll be happy to stay at steady state.

I'm a Ron Paul guy, both these guys creep me out.
 
#44
#44
MystifyingVol said:
I have an idea. Everyone who thinks their taxes are too low, why don't you just volunteer to pay more? For those of us who think our taxes are too high, tell you what, if you guys pay more, I'll be happy to stay at steady state.

I'm a Ron Paul guy, both these guys creep me out.
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I'm down.
 
#45
#45
rjd970 said:
I would start by looking at guys like Donald Rumsfield, Dick Cheney, and Paul Wolfowitz.
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And that is why 90% of republicans are not satisfied with it's leadership and want conservatives back in power.

I find it odd that democrats are wanting to put an equally fringe administration in office.
 
#48
#48
SURFSIDEBEACHVOL said:
How can "Do your own research and come to your own conclusion" possibly be considered bad advice?
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you apparently missed the part about the neocons on this site. The portion you cited was the only part worth the time it took to read it. The remainder was just weakly done partisan trash.
 
#49
#49
As for Ron Paul, it amazes me how much support he gets now vs. when he initially ran. He would have gotten my vote if he had gotten the rep. nomination. I love Paul. He has great ideas and is the only guy I give any credence to when running on a "change" platform. neither of these idiots are going to change what's truly wrong with the American political system.
 
#50
#50
Sabanocchio said:
As for Ron Paul, it amazes me how much support he gets now vs. when he initially ran. He would have gotten my vote if he had gotten the rep. nomination. I love Paul. He has great ideas and is the only guy I give any credence to when running on a "change" platform. neither of these idiots are going to change what's truly wrong with the American political system.
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Makes me crazy as well. I was out actively campaigning for him here in GA and people just didn't want to hear the message. He's the only candidate for real change as far as I'm concerned. Wish he had run on the Libertarian party ticket (Bob Barr is creepy).
 
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