Is the extortion of an allied country to investigate a political opponent an impeachable offense by the President?

[AM64]

So u are ok with the Bidens possibly being corrupt and the public not knowing?
Isn’t it the presidents job to protect the American citizen?

Yeah, but that's "different" because Biden's a dim. The sad fact is that if it's impermissible for one party to investigate members of the other because it looks like action against a political rival, then nothing ever gets cleaned up in DC. This is probably far more about keeping the status quo than a quid pro quo.

 

[Septic]

Grow a pair of testicles and take your shots like a man and put your victim hood aside little girl-boy.

Oh u mad... I don't need to call you names or take personal shots, reasonable folks can deduce where you rate.

I'm just here discussing politics, when you calm down - maybe you can have a seat at the table.

 

[Septic]

Again.......That's what Obama did to Trump but you're OK with all that...

Am I? Huh, good to know.

 

[NEO]

So to summarize.....

Dead us citizens killed by terrorist. Clinton, what does it matter?????

Private server with classified detail that still has emails missing. What does it matter???

Biden when he was a VP literally telling the Ukraine to fire the prosecutor looking into his son. What does it matter????

Bidens son getting a high paying job in the Ukraine he has no business getting. What does it matter???

Obama caught on a hot mic telling Russia he will have much more wiggle room after the election. What does it matter????

Trump asking Ukraine to look into whether Biden is dirty.

Holy Chit!!!! This matters folks!!!!!

How dare he!!!!

 

[1972 Grad]

So to summarize.....

Dead us citizens killed by terrorist. Clinton, what does it matter?????

Private server with classified detail that still has emails missing. What does it matter???

Biden when he was a VP literally telling the Ukraine to fire the prosecutor looking into his son. What does it matter????

Bidens son getting a high paying job in the Ukraine he has no business getting. What does it matter???

Obama caught on a hot mic telling Russia he will have much more wiggle room after the election. What does it matter????

Trump asking Ukraine to look into whether Biden is dirty.

Holy Chit!!!! This matters folks!!!!!

How dare he!!!!

Be easy on Sepsis. He has slipped into Stage 4 TDS.

 

[Septic]

So the president doesn’t have a sworn oath to protect and to serve the us of America?

Is it your assertion that undermining a pillar of our republic by extorting tax dollars for aid to a country that in engaged in aggression by Russia for dirt on a private US citizen is "protecting and serving"?

Its your belief that he's doing us a favor by doing what he was trying to expose?

Beautiful.

 

[Septic]

Be easy on Sepsis. He has slipped into Stage 4 TDS.

I don't view TDS as a pejorative, had you taken your meds you'd have remembered this.

 

[Weezer]

So did Biden use his position in the Obama administration to extort Ukraine into dropping the original investigation into Burisma?

I'm gonna guess no one really knows the answer to that.

 

[RockyTop85]

So the president doesn’t have a sworn oath to protect and to serve the us of America?

This is almost as amusing as watching the Republican congressman try to defend Trump by bringing up Zlochevsky’s self-dealing.

You guys are tying yourselves into pretzels.

 

[RockyTop85]

So did Biden use his position in the Obama administration to extort Ukraine into dropping the original investigation into Burisma?

I'm gonna guess no one really knows the answer to that.

George Kent testified at some length today that this theory does not hold water. Basically reiterated the same analysis that myself and others have posted here since September.

There was no ongoing investigation into Burisma, which was the problem. State strongly suspected Zlochevsky bought a prosecutor. State wanted the GP’s office cleaned out and wanted the investigation started anew. Joe Biden acted against Hunter Biden’s interest.

You couldn’t watch Kent and not find him to be credible about foreign affairs. He was clearly the most intelligent guy in the room and it wasn’t close, IMO.

 

[Septic]

So did Biden use his position in the Obama administration to extort Ukraine into dropping the original investigation into Burisma?

I'm gonna guess no one really knows the answer to that.

I believe the argument is that Biden used his position to squeeze out corruption in the Ukrainian government that was recognized by the D's and R's.

 

[1972 Grad]

I don't view TDS as a pejorative, had you taken your meds you'd have remembered this.

One of the symptoms of Stage 4 is that the afflicted is proud of it.

 

[1972 Grad]

George Kent testified at some length today that this theory does not hold water. Basically reiterated the same analysis that myself and others have posted here since September.

There was no ongoing investigation into Burisma, which was the problem. State strongly suspected Zlochevsky bought a prosecutor. State wanted the GP’s office cleaned out and wanted the investigation started anew. Joe Biden acted against Hunter Biden’s interest.

You couldn’t watch Kent and not find him to be credible about foreign affairs. He was clearly the most intelligent guy in the room and it wasn’t close, IMO.

I guess the bow tie impressed you, or made you think of George Will.

 

[Septic]

I guess the bow tie impressed you, or made you think of George Will.

You keep bringing that up... Did a dude with a bow tie bang your old lady or are you just easily distracted by men with good taste in neckwear?

 

[1972 Grad]

You keep bringing that up... Did a dude with a bow tie bang your old lady or are you just easily distracted by men with good taste in neckwear?

I guess I forgot to take my Darvocet, or whatever it is that I'm supposed to be taking, because I'm old and can't remember sh!t.

 

[RockyTop85]

I guess the bow tie impressed you, or made you think of George Will.

You notice that while you were drawing handlebar mustaches in the pictures from that article you printed off but didn’t read?

 

[Orangeburst]

In 2013, $33 million was laundered in Ukraine including Burisma. Documents released today.

The Prosecutor General’s Office of Ukraine announced the suspicion of the ex-Minister of Ecology of laundering $ 33 million

 

[1972 Grad]

You notice that while you were drawing handlebar mustaches in the pictures from that article you printed off but didn’t read?

What article?

 

[RockyTop85]

So did Biden use his position in the Obama administration to extort Ukraine into dropping the original investigation into Burisma?

I'm gonna guess no one really knows the answer to that.

And fwiw he reported Biden’s appearance of impropriety to the VP’s office, so it didn’t seem like his concept of right and wrong was based on partisan leanings.

 

[1972 Grad]

In 2013, $33 million was laundered in Ukraine including Burisma. Documents released today.

The Prosecutor General’s Office of Ukraine announced the suspicion of the ex-Minister of Ecology of laundering $ 33 million

I would say that Biden, Pelosi, Kerry, and God knows who else have some of that money.

 

[1972 Grad]

And fwiw he reported Biden’s appearance of impropriety to the VP’s office, so it didn’t seem like his concept of right and wrong was based on partisan leanings.

I'm not worried about Biden. He won't be the nominee.

 

[Weezer]

George Kent testified at some length today that this theory does not hold water. Basically reiterated the same analysis that myself and others have posted here since September.

There was no ongoing investigation into Burisma, which was the problem. State strongly suspected Zlochevsky bought a prosecutor. State wanted the GP’s office cleaned out and wanted the investigation started anew. Joe Biden acted against Hunter Biden’s interest.

You couldn’t watch Kent and not find him to be credible about foreign affairs. He was clearly the most intelligent guy in the room and it wasn’t close, IMO.

Question, and I know it's going to sound like I'm defending Trump, which I'm not, but is there any actual proof of a crime? I know we have the testimony of various people, but testimony is subjective to how much credibility anyone gives them. Is there a true smoking gun? Trump denies a QPQ. Zelensky denies a QPQ. Just at face value, it's easy to see why some will see this as just more political theater on the part of the House Dems. So what is supposed to convince people that it actually happened? Trump certainly isn't above the charge IMO, but is there anything that can't be explained away as coincidence or happenstance? JMO, but it's not about what you believe, it's about what you can prove. And in this case, a case of impeaching the POTUS, I think you need to prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt.

 

[Orangeburst]

I would say that Biden, Pelosi, Kerry, and God knows who else have some of that money.

So NLT March 2019, the Ukrainians are investigating Burisma activity that initiated in 2013 and Trump was the one who initiated the investigation? When was Trump suspected of initiation, July?

 

[RockyTop85]

Question, and I know it's going to sound like I'm defending Trump, which I'm not, but is there any actual proof of a crime? I know we have the testimony of various people, but testimony is subjective to how much credibility anyone gives them. Is there a true smoking gun? Trump denies a QPQ. Zelensky denies a QPQ. Just at face value, it's easy to see why some will see this as just more political theater on the part of the House Dems. So what is supposed to convince people that it actually happened? Trump certainly isn't above the charge IMO, but is there anything that can't be explained away as coincidence or happenstance? JMO, but it's not about what you believe, it's about what you can prove. And in this case, a case of impeaching the POTUS, I think you need to prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt.

I don’t think there’s a specific crime that will be proven here. Had a discussion about one of the bribery subsections with EL the other day, but I’m lukewarm that it applies, here as it seems overly broad and would make a lot of reasonable conduct illegal.

Effectively, the bribery statute has a section for a public official who refuses to carry out an act required of his office, unless he receives some personal benefit.

While I think the facts are close to that, I’m not sure I buy that they’ve been precisely met and, as I said, it would conflict with some article II powers.

The elements I’m looking for are:
(1.) Trump, either personally or through a subordinate (2.) made personal gain a predicate (3.) To some mandatory act (4.) And in so doing acted against the interests of the United States.

Basically, conspiracy to commit bribery, plus element 4.

I think they made headway on 2 (still needs to be shown it originated with Trump) and conclusively proved 4. There was evidence as to 1, but while it’s bit as weak as republicans are billing it, it’s not ironclad, either.

 

[Coug]

Is the extortion of an allied country to investigate a political opponent an impeachable offense?

Of course it is. If it wasn't we wouldn't be having impeachment hearings.