Is the SEC still a “southern” conference?

#76
#76
Maybe we could break out of the culture vs. history ("South" vs "Confederacy") paradigm by redefining the SEC's geographic footprint according to the native American nations that predate our arrival.

I could see Cherokee, Chickasaw, Choctaw, Creek, Caddo, and Seminole defining a desirable SEC territory:

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They could rebrand as "The Southeastern Conference... continuing to build upon the histories of cooperation and competition between the Cherokee, Chickasaw, Choctaw, Creek, Caddo, and Seminole nations."
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I'm not putting this forward as a serious idea, just using it creatively to make the point that any territory has multiple identities, and that the task of creating a collective identity is one of branding, and always fraught with problems of history, culture, sociology, and economy.
 
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#77
#77
It's not really a conference at all. Now league with 16/18/20 members is conference in any real or traditional sense..

The SEC, like the Big 10, which now has (count 'em) 18 teams, is merely an excessively large collection of schools loosely
gathered together to maximize their TV-rights revenue. That's it. All the rest is commercial hype.
 
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#79
#79
the lost33 said:
With the inclusion of Texas, Oklahoma, and Missouri. Is the SEC still a culturally southern conference?
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Missouri is more southern culturally than Florida or Atlanta. Where I live in rural MO is every bit as "southern" culturally as similar places I've lived in SC, GA, and NC other than the accents... and row crop farming.... and the size of the deer 👍

Most of Missouri lies south of Lexington KY. Columbia is "north" of Lexington by 50 miles +/-. Most of the original settlers of Missouri came from the southeast. Like KY, MD, and DE... MO was a "border state" that the Union prevented from seceding prior to the Civil War. Today, most of the sites I've seen across the state honoring Civil War soldiers are dedicated to those who fought with the Confederacy. One town close by still honors the "General" of a band of confederate raiders with an annual celebration.

One of the reasons the James/Younger gang were able to elude capture so long is that southern sympathizers hid them. They (truthfully or not) convinced people that they were robbing Yankees and continuing the rebellion on their own. They operated out of Kearney, MO... north of KC.

One cultural difference is that a period of land claims coincided with an influx of European settlers. As such, there's a significant German influence in farm country. One sign of that is more Lutherans and Catholics than you see in most areas of the south.
 
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#81
#81
DonDiego said:
Good map, although I agree Maryland, Delaware, and W. Virginia aren't really part of the South.
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I guess it depends on which part of WV you're in. I was in Huntington a few weeks back and I thought the people there were pretty much the same as where I live (Chattanooga). I haven't traveled farther north of the state, so maybe it's different there?
 
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#82
#82
turbovol said:
It's not really a conference at all. Now league with 16/18/20 members is conference in any real or traditional sense..

The SEC, like the Big 10, which now has (count 'em) 18 teams, is merely an excessively large collection of schools loosely
gathered together to maximize their TV-rights revenue. That's it. All the rest is commercial hype.
Click to expand...
A conference has always been a collection of schools gathered together to maximize...something.
 
#84
#84
turbovol said:
It's not really a conference at all. Now league with 16/18/20 members is conference in any real or traditional sense..

The SEC, like the Big 10, which now has (count 'em) 18 teams, is merely an excessively large collection of schools loosely
gathered together to maximize their TV-rights revenue. That's it. All the rest is commercial hype.
Click to expand...
In the next 3 to 5 year cycle, I bet we see 4 major conferences, realigned to geographical relationships and calling themselves some thing that recalls one of the 'original' conferences (i.e. SEC, ACC, B1G, and / or PAC 12 / BIG 12).
There will also be 4 minor conferences to gather the more traditionally mid-major schools.

These 8 conferences will encompass ALL of the D1 schools...so each conference will be around 20 teams each.
Each conference will go to a pod style system and have a short play off to determine a champion.
Each champion will move onto an overall College Football Playoff (think of it like how most states do high school playoffs).

Not ideal in terms of the traditionalist view of College football and conferences but the TV revenue will be through the roof as well as that realignment geographically should drive more fan loyalty.
 
#86
#86
sjt18 said:
Missouri is more southern culturally than Florida or Atlanta. Where I live in rural MO is every bit as "southern" culturally as similar places I've lived in SC, GA, and NC other than the accents... and row crop farming.... and the size of the deer 👍

Most of Missouri lies south of Lexington KY. Columbia is "north" of Lexington by 50 miles +/-. Most of the original settlers of Missouri came from the southeast. Like KY, MD, and DE... MO was a "border state" that the Union prevented from seceding prior to the Civil War. Today, most of the sites I've seen across the state honoring Civil War soldiers are dedicated to those who fought with the Confederacy. One town close by still honors the "General" of a band of confederate raiders with an annual celebration.

One of the reasons the James/Younger gang were able to elude capture so long is that southern sympathizers hid them. They (truthfully or not) convinced people that they were robbing Yankees and continuing the rebellion on their own. They operated out of Kearney, MO... north of KC.

One cultural difference is that a period of land claims coincided with an influx of European settlers. As such, there's a significant German influence in farm country. One sign of that is more Lutherans and Catholics than you see in most areas of the south.
Click to expand...
Jesse’s parents were from Lexington, KY.
 
#87
#87
I think of Texas and Oklahoma as more of Midwestern states. While Florida is geographically southern, it’s in a category of its own. When I travel there I don’t see it as a representation of the south. The folks there are different than folks in Alabama, Tennessee, South Carolina, Mississippi, etc….. To me that would be like grouping Ohio in with New Yorkers just because geographically they are both Northern.
 
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#88
#88
Brave Volunteer said:
I guess it depends on which part of WV you're in. I was in Huntington a few weeks back and I thought the people there were pretty much the same as where I live (Chattanooga). I haven't traveled farther north of the state, so maybe it's different there?
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I've known several people from there, but never visited. I was alluding to the fact that WV was created as a state when Virginia seceded from the union, so I think I'd have a hard time viewing them as southern.
 
#89
#89
the lost33 said:
With the inclusion of Texas, Oklahoma, and Missouri. Is the SEC still a culturally southern conference?
Click to expand...
All the Universities in the conference are in states that seceded from the Union during the Civil War (the quintessential element of being "Southern") other than Kentucky and Missouri which were border states and had citizens partial to both sides. Oklahoma was Indian territory at the time. Plus all the states represented by the conference are contiguous and in what most would consider the southern or southwestern regions of the country, so yes this is very much a Southern Conference. If further is expansion occurs I would want to keep it that way by potentially including the following schools; North Carolina, Virginia, Clemson, and Florida State.
 
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#90
#90
DonDiego said:
I've known several people from there, but never visited. I was alluding to the fact that WV was created as a state when Virginia seceded from the union, so I think I'd have a hard time viewing them as southern.
Click to expand...
Gotcha. Geographically it does fall below the Mason-Dixon line, so I think it technically IS a Southeastern state. I think adding WV to the SEC would make sense. Much more so than Missouri.
 
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#91
#91
Brave Volunteer said:
Gotcha. Geographically it does fall below the Mason-Dixon line, so I think it technically IS a Southeastern state. I think adding WV to the SEC would make sense. Much more so than Missouri.
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In what specific way? West Virginia relates better to southeast Ohio, Maryland, and PA than to the "deep" south. They're more like PA "hillbillies" than TN hillbillies.
 
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#92
#92
1974Vol said:
All the Universities in the conference are in states that seceded from the Union during the Civil War (the quintessential element of being "Southern") other than Kentucky and Missouri which were border states and had citizens partial to both sides. Oklahoma was Indian territory at the time. Plus all the states represented by the conference are contiguous and in what most would consider the southern or southwestern regions of the country, so yes this is very much a Southern Conference. If further is expansion occurs I would want to keep it that way by potentially including the following schools; North Carolina, Virginia, Clemson, and Florida State.
Click to expand...
Not sure I agree that a 160 year old political decision is the “quintessential element of being southern”. Lots of officially seceded states, had people partial to the Union as well. Even Mississippi had 500 white union soldiers. But I guess every SEC state is on the confederate flag, minus Okie. If you wanna use that as criteria.
 
#93
#93
1974Vol said:
All the Universities in the conference are in states that seceded from the Union during the Civil War (the quintessential element of being "Southern") other than Kentucky and Missouri which were border states and had citizens partial to both sides. Oklahoma was Indian territory at the time. Plus all the states represented by the conference are contiguous and in what most would consider the southern or southwestern regions of the country, so yes this is very much a Southern Conference. If further is expansion occurs I would want to keep it that way by potentially including the following schools; North Carolina, Virginia, Clemson, and Florida State.
Click to expand...
Well East Tennessee where Knoxville is seceded from Tennessee when the state left the Union. Does that count? :)
 
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#94
#94
sjt18 said:
Missouri is more southern culturally than Florida or Atlanta. Where I live in rural MO is every bit as "southern" culturally as similar places I've lived in SC, GA, and NC other than the accents... and row crop farming.... and the size of the deer 👍

Most of Missouri lies south of Lexington KY. Columbia is "north" of Lexington by 50 miles +/-. Most of the original settlers of Missouri came from the southeast. Like KY, MD, and DE... MO was a "border state" that the Union prevented from seceding prior to the Civil War. Today, most of the sites I've seen across the state honoring Civil War soldiers are dedicated to those who fought with the Confederacy. One town close by still honors the "General" of a band of confederate raiders with an annual celebration.

One of the reasons the James/Younger gang were able to elude capture so long is that southern sympathizers hid them. They (truthfully or not) convinced people that they were robbing Yankees and continuing the rebellion on their own. They operated out of Kearney, MO... north of KC.

One cultural difference is that a period of land claims coincided with an influx of European settlers. As such, there's a significant German influence in farm country. One sign of that is more Lutherans and Catholics than you see in most areas of the south.
Click to expand...
The bootheel is definitely southern.
 
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#97
#97
sjt18 said:
I live in northern MO. Still southern... but south of I-44 you'd have a hard time distinguishing even the accent from Arkansas or west Tennessee. Oddly there are parts of southern Illinois and Indiana that are similar.
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Southern Illinois and Indiana was heavily settled by Kentuckians. The central and northern parts. Were settled by German immigrants and new Englanders. During the war that area had tons of copperheads (northerners who supported the confederacy). A company of southern illinois men. Even joined up with a confederate KY regiment. In Paducah. Today, the area’s have southern accents and customs. Due to those Kentucky roots.
 
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#100
#100
DonDiego said:
I've known several people from there, but never visited. I was alluding to the fact that WV was created as a state when Virginia seceded from the union, so I think I'd have a hard time viewing them as southern.
Click to expand...
Northern WV is northern and southern WV is southern. A lot of counties that didn't want to split from Va were tacked on to WVa.
 
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