Is the SEC still a “southern” conference?

[EasternVol]

Uh......

Religious Landscape Study

Explore the geographic distribution and demographics of America's major religious groups.

www.pewresearch.org

Interestingly most Mississippians I know are Catholic. I bet the percentage is significantly higher in Louisiana and Maryland.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Interestingly most Mississippians I know are Catholic. I bet the percentage is significantly higher in Louisiana and Maryland.

Louisiana has the French influence and some Latino migrants, like TX.

Southern states are notoriously not Catholic. My grandfather referred to them as "Papists" (just like the O Brother Klansman did.)

I know a lot of Catholic folks, great people, but very few live in the South unless they practice medicine or law or teach. There are a few Catholic families embedded in the South for generations and generations, but not many.

 

[Brave Volunteer]

So you're saying Southerners ARE defined by religious extremism, misogyny and racism?


There's always a cost to rebranding. If the benefit of adopting the new name is important enough to offset that cost, then the leadership starts the process.

Brave, I'm just not seeing any significant benefit to renaming the SEC. Easing OCD "accuracy" concerns is not enough to offset the very real costs we would incur.

Go Vols!

You might be right and honestly, if either conference was going to rebrand they probably would've done it years ago when the contents of their conferences no longer matched their names. Arkansas joined the SEC in what, 1992? They are most certainly not a southeast school. Then Mizzou and A&M in what, 2014? They've had plenty of opportunities to do it already. Same with the Big 10.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

You might be right and honestly, if either conference was going to rebrand they probably would've done it years ago when the contents of their conferences no longer matched their names. Arkansas joined the SEC in what, 1992? They are most certainly not a southeast school. Then Mizzou and A&M in what, 2014? They've had plenty of opportunities to do it already. Same with the Big 10.

Without raiding the ACC, there's not a lot of decent schools left that are really Southeastern.

Once the Grant of Rights issue is broken and the ACC dissolves, the B1G and SEC will fight over UNC, UVA, FSU and somebody will get stuck with Clemson. Those are arguably "SEC territory" schools that we'll want for tradition (read: eyeballs for media contracts.)

The reality of West Virginia is that no matter how Southern or not Southern it is, it doesn't bring enough eyeballs to the party to be worth it.

Schools are added these days based upon the TV sets they can bring and not their geography.

 

[Brave Volunteer]

Without raiding the ACC, there's not a lot of decent schools left that are really Southeastern.

Once the Grant of Rights issue is broken and the ACC dissolves, the B1G and SEC will fight over UNC, UVA, FSU and somebody will get stuck with Clemson. Those are arguably "SEC territory" schools that we'll want for tradition (read: eyeballs for media contracts.)

The reality of West Virginia is that no matter how Southern or not Southern it is, it doesn't bring enough eyeballs to the party to be worth it.

Schools are added these days based upon the TV sets they can bring and not their geography.

All you said makes total sense logically. That being said, I'd still love to see WV in the SEC. They have a great tradition and a great fanbase and despite not really adding anything in terms of TV revenue, they are still a recognizable brand. There's still value there that can be added to the conference. I sure as hell would rather have West Virginia than Virginia Tech, who's only real legacy/tradition is Frank Beamer and Michael Vick.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

All you said makes total sense logically. That being said, I'd still love to see WV in the SEC. They have a great tradition and a great fanbase and despite not really adding anything in terms of TV revenue, they are still a recognizable brand. There's still value there that can be added to the conference.

I don't know the numbers, for sure, but I'm sure Sankey does. I suspect WV just isn't worth giving them a "full share" of SEC media revenue.

The ACC used the notion of "stepchild" members who don't get a share or full share and I think the SEC could sneak WV and NCState in with some kind of "halvsies" deal, but the ACC DID get fresh eyeballs from the CA schools and whatever TX school they threw in there.

WV and NCSt just don't bring much to the table for the SEC.

 

[Brave Volunteer]

I don't know the numbers, for sure, but I'm sure Sankey does. I suspect WV just isn't worth giving them a "full share" of SEC media revenue.

The ACC used the notion of "stepchild" members who don't get a share or full share and I think the SEC could sneak WV and NCState in with some kind of "halvsies" deal, but the ACC DID get fresh eyeballs from the CA schools and whatever TX school they threw in there.

WV and NCSt just don't bring much to the table for the SEC.

So why does Miss St and Vanderbilt get to stay in the league? Academics and The Egg Bowl?

 

[volbound1700]

I think NC State and Virginia Tech would have an outside chance at the SEC if UVA and UNC go to the B1G.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

So why does Miss St and Vanderbilt get to stay in the league? Academics and The Egg Bowl?

Charter schools. The SEC won't throw out a charter member. They should, financially, but they won't.

 

[the lost33]

Kentucky and Missouri will never be southern.

They’re just a buffer state. There are some southerners in those states, as happens on a border. Until you see Southerners in Ohio, Kentucky isn’t Southern.

Considering KY has been southern since 1792 and the fact that plenty of people in southern ohio, indiana, and illinois. Have southern customs and accents. This is a blatantly false statement.

 

[207 others]

Virginia changes back to South once you get west and south of the DC burbs and west of the Hampton Roads military zone.

Nelson county was pretty southern especially in south west near blacksburg, along the WV border and then piedmont and NC border area. south of richmond in general

 

[207 others]

Coal's not big in east Tennessee. At least, not the way it is big (and I mean HUGE...culture-defining) in West Virginia, Ohio, and Pennsylvania.

I would think West Virginians would identify more with the midwest, particularly those two states, than the south. I get that "rural culture" and "Appalachian culture" are often seen as parts of "southern culture", but they're not really the same. You can be a country boy in Nebraska, a dairy farmer in Wisconsin, or an Appalachian in the Catskill Mountains of upstate New York, but you're certainly not southern.

you're pretty right but here's the issue, northern WV near pittsburg is definitely like Pennsylvania/Pitt but South WV is what most people see WV as, is NO different than kentucky. and kentucky is the south. Eastern WV up to near the panhandle is like the blue ridge of VA which is the south.The northwestern border of WV is similar to Ohio, but the overall culture of WV besides the north portion is East Kentucky Senior, hell East TN is union, KY is union, WV is union, so I feel an exception to WV should be made to consider it the south. if we consider VA the south despite NOVA then WV should be the South despite Martinsburg panhandle and Pittsburgh suburban region

Just because adventurous southern people, Virginians, often the poor rowdy Irishmen went West to be left alone in mountains vs farming, doesn't mean those descendants, that also settled in the South East, aren't southerners. It's the same Virginians that settled "Franklin" ETN NC as well as WV KY. Mountain music founded country music etc.. the north part of WV is not the same settlers I understand they're Germans like Penn but they aren't seen as "true" WVians

 

[the lost33]

you're pretty right but here's the issue, northern WV near pittsburg is definitely like Pennsylvania/Pitt but South WV is what most people see WV as, is NO different than kentucky. and kentucky is the south. Eastern WV up to near the panhandle is like the blue ridge of VA which is the south.The northwestern border of WV is similar to Ohio, but the overall culture of WV besides the north portion is East Kentucky Senior, hell East TN is union, KY is union, WV is union, so I feel an exception to WV should be made to consider it the south. if we consider VA the south despite NOVA then WV should be the South despite Martinsburg panhandle and Pittsburgh suburban region

Just because adventurous southern people, Virginians, often the poor rowdy Irishmen went West to be left alone in mountains vs farming, doesn't mean those descendants, that also settled in the South East, aren't southerners. It's the same Virginians that settled "Franklin" ETN NC as well as WV KY. Mountain music founded country music etc.. the north part of WV is not the same settlers I understand they're Germans like Penn but they aren't seen as "true" WVians

Some people just can’t grasp southern doenst mean confederate. It means confederate. It’s a political idea.

 

[adam.vol]

Considering KY has been southern since 1792 and the fact that plenty of people in southern ohio, indiana, and illinois. Have southern customs and accents. This is a blatantly false statement.

Blatantly full of it, aren’t we? We sound the same because we’re from the same countries of origin and grew up in similarly rural areas. The southern accent is basically slowed down English accents. It’s not unique to the Southern US and I’d say how you think of the civil war and states’ rights, along with where your state is located is what makes a person southern.

New Orleans accents sound nothing like TN accents, yet I’ll swear they are southern.

 

[woodpusher]

Blatantly full of it, aren’t we? We sound the same because we’re from the same countries of origin and grew up in similarly rural areas. The southern accent is basically slowed down English accents. It’s not unique to the Southern US and I’d say how you think of the civil war and states’ rights, along with where your state is located is what makes a person southern.

New Orleans accents sound nothing like TN accents, yet I’ll swear they are southern.

New Orleans accents are all over the lot. There is one strain that sounds like New York City.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

Defining southern culture is not as simple as some folks in this thread imply.

It's not a political formula. It's not the Civil War, nor that conflict's antecedents.

It's not just accents, though accents are a flag (or a set of flags).

Being Southern is about how you interact with people. It's about what you do on Sundays. How you relax with friends on Friday and Saturday nights. What kinds of music you tend to like most. How much time you spend outdoors when you have free time. How important you consider loyalty to your team, your tribe, your community. Whether you take care of your parents as they get older.

Sure, Southerners are recognized by our accents, sometimes our clothing, even by the slower pace of living at times. But those are surface ripples. What's important is deeper down.

Southerners are no more or less racist than Northerners or folks from anywhere else. No more or less misogynist. We are more religious, but are no more likely to be extremists. Those are simple insults Northerners sometimes use to forgive or conceal their own sins.

I do think we are kinder people. My friends from New York City and Long Island used to love to say that Southerners are kind to your face, but mean behind your back, while New Yorkers are the opposite. This is wrong. Southerners are simply kinder, in my experience.

Southerners aren't defined by how ferociously we fight. I've known fellas from Boston and Baltimore who are just as quick to anger, and just as tenacious about it. But Southerners--and Tennesseans in particular--are quicker to jump into a fight to help a friend out, even when they aren't directly involved. From what I've seen, Northerners sit back a while longer to get a better feel for the odds and circumstances. They can argue that's smarter, but it's not as loyal to a friend. For sure.

I could go on for pages about what a Southerner is, and how we compare to folks from the North. I've spent a lifetime around a lot of the latter, and lived in several northern and western places.

Simple truth is, you know when you're with a Southerner. We're unique, even if our accents are hugely different from Coastal Carolina to Nashville to New Orleans...and yes, to Houston.

Go Vols!

 

[JustFunnN'Orange]

Defining southern culture is not as simple as some folks in this thread imply.

It's not a political formula. It's not the Civil War, nor that conflict's antecedents.

It's not just accents, though accents are a flag (or a set of flags).

Being Southern is about how you interact with people. It's about what you do on Sundays. How you relax with friends on Friday and Saturday nights. What kinds of music you tend to like most. How much time you spend outdoors when you have free time. How important you consider loyalty to your team, your tribe, your community. Whether you take care of your parents as they get older.

Sure, Southerners are recognized by our accents, sometimes our clothing, even by the slower pace of living at times. But those are surface ripples. What's important is deeper down.

Southerners are no more or less racist than Northerners or folks from anywhere else. No more or less misogynist. We are more religious, but are no more likely to be extremists. Those are simple insults Northerners sometimes use to forgive or conceal their own sins.

I do think we are kinder people. My friends from New York City and Long Island used to love to say that Southerners are kind to your face, but mean behind your back, while New Yorkers are the opposite. This is wrong. Southerners are simply kinder, in my experience.

Southerners aren't defined by how ferociously we fight. I've known fellas from Boston and Baltimore who are just as quick to anger, and just as tenacious about it. But Southerners--and Tennesseans in particular--are quicker to jump into a fight to help a friend out, even when they aren't directly involved. From what I've seen, Northerners sit back a while longer to get a better feel for the odds and circumstances. They can argue that's smarter, but it's not as loyal to a friend. For sure.

I could go on for pages about what a Southerner is, and how we compare to folks from the North. I've spent a lifetime around a lot of the latter, and lived in several northern and western places.

Simple truth is, you know when you're with a Southerner. We're unique, even if our accents are hugely different from Coastal Carolina to Nashville to New Orleans...and yes, to Houston.

Go Vols!

JP....What a perfect analogy !!! Wish I could give you a dozen likes!

 

[LittleCat]

The culture of Oklahoma is much more Western than Southern.

If you are from the south it feels like the midwest. If you are from the midwest it feels like the south. Oklahoma is very much a mix of the two cultures imo.

 

[the lost33]

Blatantly full of it, aren’t we? We sound the same because we’re from the same countries of origin and grew up in similarly rural areas. The southern accent is basically slowed down English accents. It’s not unique to the Southern US and I’d say how you think of the civil war and states’ rights, along with where your state is located is what makes a person southern.

New Orleans accents sound nothing like TN accents, yet I’ll swear they are southern.

So your argument is KY isn’t southern, because??.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

If you are from the south it feels like the midwest. If you are from the midwest it feels like the south. Oklahoma is very much a mix of the two cultures imo.

Good to see you, LittleCat. Was afraid we lost you.

There's also a Great Plains culture. It's not quite Midwestern, though that's where it evolved from. Settlers crossing from Ohio, Indiana, and Illinois, passing through St Louis or Memphis or Chicago to head west and stake a claim somewhere. Those settlers got mixed in with the native Americans who were already there. A few let too much freedom distort them, became outlaws, but most just settled down to a hard life trying to make do. Then generations of harsh winters and sometimes semi-arid plains made them tough as dried meat.

I think Oklahoma has a lot of that (though the Cherokee diaspora is also a big influence). Kansas, for sure. Nebraska. Colorado. Wyoming and Montana, the Dakotas. Missouri a bit (though Mizzou is, imho, more closely tied to the Mid-West still, because think of it: the settlers who left St Louis and ended up staying in Missouri, well, they sure didn't go too far).

Great Plains culture isn't southern, though it is strongly rural. It's just, well, the Great Plains. They are who they are, hard people. Unlikely to trust a stranger, not for a while. Hospitable, but not quick to make friends. Cautious.

Definitely different than the South.

Go Vols!

 

[adam.vol]

So your argument is KY isn’t southern, because??.

Because KY chose to stay with the Union while the Southern states chose to preserve their right to self government. If you were Southern, I would not have to spell that out for you.

 

[LadyVolette]

Good to see you, LittleCat. Was afraid we lost you.

There's also a Great Plains culture. It's not quite Midwestern, though that's where it evolved from. Settlers crossing from Ohio, Indiana, and Illinois, passing through St Louis or Memphis or Chicago to head west and stake a claim somewhere. Those settlers got mixed in with the native Americans who were already there. A few let too much freedom distort them, became outlaws, but most just settled down to a hard life trying to make do. Harsh winters and sometimes semi-arid plains made them tough as dried meat.

I think Oklahoma has a lot of that (though the Cherokee diaspora is also a big influence). Kansas, for sure. Nebraska. Colorado. Wyoming and Montana, the Dakotas. Missouri a bit (though Mizzou is, imho, more closely tied to the Mid-West still).

Their culture isn't southern, though it is strongly rural. It's just, well, the Great Plains. They are who they are, hard people. Unlikely to trust a stranger, not for a while. Hospitable, but not quick to make friends. Cautious.

Definitely different than the South.

Go Vols!

Umm that actually makes sense.. my husband’s work partner was from Oklahoma and I was expected to make nice with the wives, as wives do.. and she was a little prickly… your description makes sense

 

[TheGrove68]

For some reason, I thought it was in the South near Branson. (You can't get more Southern than Branson). Yeah, Northern Missouri is pretty Midwestern in Culture and location.

EDIT: It is Springfield (the Capital of the state) that is in the South near Branson. That was what threw me off.

Jeff City is the Capital it's just a bit South of Columbia

 

[the lost33]

Because KY chose to stay with the Union while the Southern states chose to preserve their right to self government. If you were Southern, I would not have to spell that out for you.

So because KY thought slavery was better protected in the union, rather a risky confederacy. It’s not southern? The south didn’t exist before 1861? Interesting. Eastern TN, you aren’t southern. Sorry, Adam.vol just laid it out.

 

[adam.vol]

So because KY thought slavery was better protected in the union, rather a risky confederacy. It’s not southern? The south didn’t exist before 1861? Interesting. Eastern TN, you aren’t southern. Sorry, Adam.vol just laid it out.

I’m going to take a step back and ask why is it important to you that Kentucky be viewed as a Southern State? That’s where I should have started when you replied initially.