Is the world better off with the nation of Israel?

#1,352
#1,352
evillawyer said:
Ok. So can the victor rape their women? Take their gold? Destroy their landmarks? Why stop at just seizing their land? What's the moral principle that justifies seizing the land but not raping the women and enslaving the population?

In everyday life, if you punch me first, and I counterpunch and win, do I get your car?
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More false arguments. Rape and enslavement arent on the table.

You continue to ignore that both sides are guilty. The Palestinians attack the Israelis about as much as the other way around. It's not like the Jews are picking on Nepal.
 
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#1,355
#1,355
evillawyer said:
Ok. So can the victor rape their women? Take their gold? Destroy their landmarks? Why stop at just seizing their land? What's the moral principle that justifies seizing the land but not raping the women and enslaving the population?

In everyday life, if you punch me first, and I counterpunch and win, do I get your car?
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Enough with the hysteria. And comparing a war started by your neighbors with the expressed intention of wiping you off the face of the earth to a fist fight is stupid.
 
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#1,358
#1,358
LouderVol said:
More false arguments. Rape and enslavement arent on the table.

You continue to ignore that both sides are guilty. The Palestinians attack the Israelis about as much as the other way around. It's not like the Jews are picking on Nepal.
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Nothing false about the absolute enslavement of the Palestinian people by Israel. They are not a free people. They are being forced out of their lands...tanks, apc’s and soldiers police the streets...systematically removed!

They are fighting back, but since the western world’s media is controlled by Zionist...they have no voice.
 
#1,364
#1,364
Rasputin_Vol said:
Crimea chose to return (key word "return") to Russia.
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Lol. Selective history argument. Only the history that helps your argument matters to you.

Really shouldn't be linking what happened in Crimea (native population killed off by Russians) as an anti argument to what you see happening in Gaza (native population killed off by Israelis)
 
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#1,365
#1,365
evillawyer said:
Oh ffs, if you're going to pull the "God promised them that land" argument, I don't think we can debate. That's not a "public reason" that can be offered and accepted by any neutral observer.

Public reason - Wikipedia

And regardless, that doesn't answer my question as to when the US has been cool with action like what Netanyahu is proposing.
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Why is it our business?
We need to stay out of other peoples business. It never ends well when we get involved
 
#1,366
#1,366
Orangeslice13 said:
Why is it our business?
We need to stay out of other peoples business. It never ends well when we get involved
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Israel probably wouldn't be there if they hadn't received US military aid in the past. Seems like if we're chipping in green, we should have a say.
 
#1,367
#1,367
LouderVol said:
More false arguments. Rape and enslavement arent on the table.

You continue to ignore that both sides are guilty. The Palestinians attack the Israelis about as much as the other way around. It's not like the Jews are picking on Nepal.
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I'm looking for you to give me the moral principle that yields the conclusion that in a defensive war, if you win, you can do one thing that's typically considered immoral (taking someone's land or property), but not something else that's immoral (raping women, enslaving the population, exterminating the population).
 
#1,368
#1,368
evillawyer said:
Israel probably wouldn't be there if they hadn't received US military aid in the past. Seems like if we're chipping in green, we should have a say.
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The entire Middle East isn’t called Israel because we stop their retaliation. We’ve had our say. We should stop paying everyone over there and mind our own business.


If we were to do that then we could not stop Israel from killing everyone around them.
 
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#1,369
#1,369
Orangeslice13 said:
The entire Middle East isn’t called Israel because we stop their retaliation. We’ve had our say. We should stop paying everyone over there and mind our own business.


If we were to do that then we could not stop Israel from killing everyone around them.
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I don't think Israel has any desire to colonize the middle East for the simple reason that they don't want to bring in any more Arab subjects than they already have. But the more conservative/religious parts of the population want the West Bank, or what they call Judea and Samaria, because those were historically Jewish held.
 
#1,370
#1,370
evillawyer said:
I'm looking for you to give me the moral principle that yields the conclusion that in a defensive war, if you win, you can do one thing that's typically considered immoral (taking someone's land or property), but not something else that's immoral (raping women, enslaving the population, exterminating the population).
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Rules of war prevent rape and murder of civilians not keeping captured lands.
 
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#1,373
#1,373
evillawyer said:
I'm looking for you to give me the moral principle that yields the conclusion that in a defensive war, if you win, you can do one thing that's typically considered immoral (taking someone's land or property), but not something else that's immoral (raping women, enslaving the population, exterminating the population).
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Self preservation. Not sure if its moral or not. But if something continues to attack and try and kill you at some point you have to remove the problem. Gang green, breast cancer, that one guy who cut off his own arm in the desert. You are doing something that is generally considered very bad to live.

I think at this point we can just say there is zero way either side is going to live peacefully with the other. This problem is thousands of years old at this point.
 
#1,374
#1,374
LouderVol said:
And what argument would you make?

Your link shows that the jews predated the arabs at one point. What caused that? This is just the latest turn in a long dance. And you are complaining because you dont like the current results.
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I know families, christian palestinian families, that were displaced due to israeli encroachment. Families that had nothing to do with extremist palestinians or hamas or any type of resistance. Still, they lost their property. Can't we begin to look beyond the dogma and see that what is happening to these people is not just?
 
#1,375
#1,375
Lets just frame this entire argument where it belongs. Arabs are trying to kill Christian people. Arabs are trying to kill Jews. So Jews and Christians can either sit by and let themselves be killed or they can fight back.
What would you choose if you were on one side or the other?
 
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