Is Trump constitutionally barred from being POTUS again?

#203
#203
evillawyer said:
As a lawyer, you know just about anything can be made ambiguous with enough effort. 35 when he runs? 35 when elected by the popular vote? By the electoral college? Sworn in? Is Cruz a natural born citizen? What does it mean to "reside" in the United States, for constitutional purposes?
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What’s a boy, what’s a girl, yes we know how you think.
 
#204
#204
evillawyer said:
Reading is your friend. I've linked both the Atlantic article and the preprint of the Penn Law Review article on which the Atlantic article is based.

Throwing you a bone. Cut and pasted from the UPenn article

Second. Section Three is legally self-executing. That is, Section Three’s disqualification is constitutionally automatic whenever its terms are satisfied. Section Three requires no legislation or adjudication to be legally effective. It is enacted by the enactment of the Fourteenth Amendment. Its disqualification, where triggered, just is. It follows that Section Three’s disqualification may and should be followed and carried out by all whose duties are affected by it. In many cases, Section Three will give rise to judiciable controversies in the courts. In others it will be enforceable by state and federal officials. But no prior judicial decision, and no implementing legislation, is required for Section Three to be carried out by officials sworn to uphold the Constitution whose duties present the occasion for applying Section Three’s commands. Section Three is ready for use.
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Sounds a lot like the theory that Pence could’ve changed the election results. Lock EL up conspiracy!
 
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#205
#205
hUTch2002 said:
Half your posts literally make zero sense. It’s like you type your stream of consciousness without organizing your thoughts into any semblance of a point. Sometimes you bring it back around and other times not. Anyway, I think Trump felt like he got cheated, or at least pretended to feel that way, so he did a lot of squawking that got him nowhere. Do I think he should be removed from ballots? No. Let him run. If you’re a Dem you should want that.
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I don't want DJT or Biden on the ballot. We deserve much better leadership in the WH than either of these two provide. The Problem is you are not going to find a candidate that is going to totally appeal in total to their own party and you will not find one that appeals to both. Not many, if any alternatives. So we are stuck with a Biden & Trump rematch? What is the match up if both Biden & Trump are eliminated from running? Not a whole lot of options on either side.
 
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#206
#206
Vol8188 said:
Sounds a lot like the theory that Pence could’ve changed the election results. Lock EL up conspiracy!
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I've simply tried to explain the theory, as stated in the article. It's self-executing in the same way that other presidential requirements are self-executing. If a 17-year old tries to get on the ballot some government official will exclude him because he doesn't meet the age requirement. That doesn't require additional legislation or a court order. The official barring the 17-year old from the ballot can simply point to the Constitution as his basis for action. That's what the authors are claiming about Section 3 of the 14th Amendment. If you're an insurrectionist, then bye Felicia. You don't like it, then go to court and seek mandamus relief.
 
#208
#208
Vol8188 said:
Sounds a lot like the theory that Pence could’ve changed the election results. Lock EL up conspiracy!
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Yes...and the comment about the anything being ambiguous, is basically the defense for the fake electors as well as the role as VP before the 2022 change
 
#209
#209
evillawyer said:
Like a general in a battle, he effectively said "charge!"

And we now know there's a whole lot more scheming going on in the background.

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So did he explicitly tell anyone to engage in an insurrection or to incite violence? No he didn’t. You people need to get over it. Idiotic adults took it upon themselves to do what they did. Trump did not invite an insurrection.
 
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#212
#212
Enough is Enough. It really doesn't make any difference if DJT is, or is not eligible to run for President.
1. He lost the race for President, recounts and all. Validated and Certified. Rigged..NO
2. He was directly involved in a plan to change the Electoral Vote.
3. He took SCIF documents to his residences.
4. 4 Indictments
5. Unfit Mentality.
6. Has no Substance.

That is not enough to eliminate him from running but enough not vote for him.
 
#213
#213
Gandalf said:
Here Turley does an answer to this rather silly interpretation of a Constitutional principal:

The Disqualification of Donald Trump and Other Legal Urban Legends
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This is not a response to the article.

Turley does not address the activities that Baude and Paulsen say constituted insurrection/aid and comfort.

The article doesn’t appear to discuss Pence, the Vice President, it doesn’t directly address the claims of voter fraud or the fake electors.

He only addresses challenging the results in court which nobody has claimed to be prohibited by the 14th Amendment) and the mob, (which is only one of several parts of the conduct described by Paulsen and Baude).

It’s a strawman argument and another example of Turley being an intellectually dishonest and unserious person whose job is to cloak the things that his audience wants to hear in his former reputation.

I don’t think I support the idea of keeping Trump off the ballot, but this isn’t a good response to the article.
 
#214
#214
RockyTop85 said:
It’s a strawman argument and another example of Turley being an intellectually dishonest and unserious person whose job is to cloak the things that his audience wants to hear in his former reputation.
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This is basically all he has done the last few years, as far as I've seen.
 
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#215
#215
Sudden Impact said:
Enough is Enough. It really doesn't make any difference if DJT is, or is not eligible to run for President.
1. He lost the race for President, recounts and all. Validated and Certified. Rigged..NO
2. He was directly involved in a plan to change the Electoral Vote.
3. He took SCIF documents to his residences.
4. 4 Indictments
5. Unfit Mentality.
6. Has no Substance.

That is not enough to eliminate him from running but enough not vote for him.
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Good thing those last 2 aren’t tested to post on VN. You’d be screwed!
 
#216
#216
hUTch2002 said:
Good thing those last 2 aren’t tested to post on VN. You’d be screwed!
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Cute. Not Clever. Deflection of the truth to focus on individual posting. Think about Denial much? Try looking inward or at a mirror will do.
 
#218
#218
Velo Vol said:
They're talking about passing a special anti-Trump law?

I don't have a problem excluding Trump from a ballot if that's justified under existing law, but I do have an issue if states start passing laws targeting specific candidates.
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Yeah seems like an ex post facto law and a bill of attainder. 😂

Still haven’t had a chance to read something this long but I think you’ve convinced me about the prudent way to handle this.

There needs to be a process that satisfies the interests of the voters and the candidate.

Vague idea:
Pass a state law (interest of the voters) and define a tort or crime of insurrection against the United States.
Set out penalties to include disqualification pursuant to Section 3 of the 14th Amendment.
Lay out a process for adjudicating the facts (interests of the candidate).
Apply it going forward.
 
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#219
#219
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#220
#220
Sudden Impact said:
Enough is Enough. It really doesn't make any difference if DJT is, or is not eligible to run for President.
1. He lost the race for President, recounts and all. Validated and Certified. Rigged..NO
2. He was directly involved in a plan to change the Electoral Vote.
3. He took SCIF documents to his residences.
4. 4 Indictments
5. Unfit Mentality.
6. Has no Substance.

That is not enough to eliminate him from running but enough not vote for him.
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It should be until you look at the other candidates. 🤮
 
#224
#224
evillawyer said:
The article that's getting so much attention was written by a bunch of federalist society legal scholars. This is not a liberal hit job.

"Baude and Paulsen are two of the most prominent conservative constitutional scholars in America, and both are affiliated with the Federalist Society, making it more difficult for them to be dismissed as political partisans. Thus it is all the more significant and sobering that they do not hesitate to draw from their long study of the Fourteenth Amendment’s text and history the shattering conclusion that the attempted overturning of the 2020 presidential election and the attack on the Capitol, intended to prevent the joint session from counting the electoral votes for the presidency, together can be fairly characterized as an “insurrection” or “rebellion.”"
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Interestingly, one of the harshest DC Judges in J6 cases is Judge Tim Kelly. Appointed by Trump and a Federalist Society member.

Of course most on the right will never hear this and they will continue to praise and support the Federalist Society.
 
#225
#225
volgr said:
Interestingly, one of the harshest DC Judges in J6 cases is Judge Tim Kelly. Appointed by Trump and a Federalist Society member.

Of course most on the right will never hear this and they will continue to praise and support the Federalist Society.
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The Federalist and Democrats are kissing cousins, both believe in an omnipotent central government controlling everything.
 
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